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Old 2011-11-14, 17:49   Link #641
Awakened
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcor View Post
This may sound like a terrible idea compared to Gooral's interesting suggestion, but it'll require a lot less work... how about a Claymore re-watch thread?

I noticed the ancient and practically unused episode threads and thought this could be a great way to make use of them. The re-watch thread will exist solely for establishing the viewing schedule and providing links to the individual episode threads, where the actual discussions will take place.

As for the title for the thread, I'll leave that up to someone else with more imagination - unless Let's Re-watch Claymore is adequate.

Edit: For anyone who doesn't have the DVDs, all episodes are available on Netflix instant watch (as a legal alternative.)
I had suggested a chapter review tread long ago, but it looks like they seem to think a chapter tread and a review tread are the same.
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Old 2011-11-14, 21:46   Link #642
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
I had suggested a chapter review tread long ago, but it looks like they seem to think a chapter tread and a review tread are the same.
With all the clutter in the chapter threads, a dedicated review thread for the manga would be appealing for those not interested in all the assorted discussions and what not. Perhaps repurposing another old (but closed) thread, like this: Claymore - Manga Discussion Thread, would work for that purpose. I'm not sure if it would be easier to open and rename that thread to "Claymore - Manga Review Thread" or just create an all-new one. It's a shame to have all those old threads collecting dust.
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Old 2011-11-15, 14:43   Link #643
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What about a "Most interesting posts thread" or "Posts recycle" thread where users could post links and fragments/parts of most interesting ideas/theories/reviews or other forms of written goods and discuss about something again (or for a first time). That way relatively new users would be able to read some insightful, attention grabbing, funny or in other way interesting opinions that were burrowed in tens of thousands of posts. I'm pretty sure that even old users would find such thread worth visiting just to remind themselves what they were discussing about 2, 3 or 4 years ago. I would also expect in this thread a lot of potential "told you so" posts. To be clear, not that people would actually start writing "told you so" but that people would link to posts that turned out to be spot on. The links should be properly named so that people would roughly know what they're clicking at.

Some examples (without naming since I don't even know whether it will pass or not and I don't want to a redundant work):
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...69#post3227569
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...08#post1579708
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...92#post2511592
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...60#post1059260
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...97#post1470897
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...70#post1713970
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...48#post1219948

And last but not least:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone
(...) So this leads me to think Option 2 might be the case - and off I go on my fanciful theory. What if Raphela did not die in the encounter with Luciela. Instead she managed to bring her back - at least partly. It would explain why she had never released her youki even once since Luciella awakened, since, presumably, the soul link would be lost if she had done so. If those 2 are alive, it's possible they ended up near Labona and met Galatea and decided to stick together and take care of Luciela. Luciela might occasionally be overcome with her youma self and completely devour the odd citizen here and there - which could explain the relatively infrequent feedings. If I somehow managed to guess right, we're in for a real treat of a fight in the holy city.
Cyclone has written it on a different forum hence quoting it instead of giving a link (you can easily google it though if you want to confirm he wrote it 4 years ago, so long before we knew about Raciella).

There are more but these are the ones I could find in a hurry.
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Old 2011-11-15, 20:28   Link #644
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^^ Excellent idea, Gooral. That would greatly simplify searching for past discussions, and help prevent needless repetition.
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Old 2011-11-16, 09:44   Link #645
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deleted post rezzed at the request of gooral and shieky:

Quote:
sry, I forgot to follow up on this game idea for some time... now that I did, sry to say that while I don't think it is a "bad" idea, it nontheless is nothing I get overly much enthusiasm for. I did not take the time to check on the other forums, but it seems a tad static as games go to me as per your description. If you are considering stuff like that maybe consider a mafia-style game if that is something you know? You could have the ghosts as townies and the ORG as mafia, claymore characters trade attacks would need to be converted into "game moves/actions" and one would have to invent moves/actions for the MIBS, too, which all in all might be quite some tedious work. Setting could be a village on the island, players would maybe all start as "seeming" village members, with both the ghosts and the org agents being hidden amongst the population?

I dunno, this would need some thought, and also quite some work to adopt it to claymore, but I think it might be a more dynamic game experience than what you proposed. Either way I am to lazy of a person to put effort in this Though I do generally think some sort of claymore based forum game is a nice notion and I guess if somebody takes the time to devise and host it, for claymore, I would participate

oh btw if you don't know it here's a link to mafia http://narutoforumsmafia.wikispaces.com/ have to admit I never participated in a game at NF but I did read/follow up on some (based on Fairy Tail) and they did seem rather fun...

on second thought I'll just c&p this to the thread in question...
now do what you want with it
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Old 2011-12-26, 13:25   Link #646
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chapter 122 thread please. we already have low quality pics of the whole chapter.
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Old 2011-12-28, 12:28   Link #647
Gooral
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How about a thread "Requests for new threads" but one where moderators actually read our posts and respond to them?

@fraktur
I was the one who asked moderator to create a thread (again, it's been 4th month in a row). Unless you PM them they won't respond.
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Old 2011-12-28, 18:33   Link #648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
How about a thread "Requests for new threads" but one where moderators actually read our posts and respond to them?

@fraktur
I was the one who asked moderator to create a thread (again, it's been 4th month in a row). Unless you PM them they won't respond.
Sigh. Yes, because chapter releases are always so reliably out at the exact times every month? I've lost count of how many times I've gotten a request for a new thread when the only thing that existed was some poorly translated spoilers that looked legit but weren't, or how many times I've missed getting a thread open "on time" because the chapter somehow went from raw to full release in record time, or how we've gone over a week after a new thread was created before even seeing images from raws show up on the net.

I apologize that there is no "dedicated mod" for the forum. We do the best we can covering all the sections. You can go ahead and think we don't care though.

As for the suggestions, I'll just say it now: no, and maybe (meaning they're being considered).

Games threads: no, against forum rules.

A thread discussing who got a guess right: no, pointless.

A thread for rewatching: has merit, considering.

A thread for manga chapter review: no, chapter threads exist to discuss chapters. That we even allow so much off topic discussion in those threads is something that shouldn't be taken for granted. If people want to actually use the old threads, perhaps the community should examine what discussions actually take place in the thread outside of chapter discussion and migrate those discussions to an appropriate thread.

For example, the recent chapters offer plenty of material for the Biology of Claymore thread. I'm willing to create new threads directly related to Claymore. For example, I have not seen a request for a thread discussing the Organization. A topic like this could have many different opinions on how it is run, who is in it, how it creates warriors, or the greater conflict with the DoD.

A poll thread for characters: lots of new characters, haven't done one in a while, has merit, considering.

My suggestion if you want to try and revive posting outside of the chapter and image threads: spread out, dig up some old threads with new infos, and suggest threads that could fill in new gaps the manga has created.
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Old 2011-12-29, 02:31   Link #649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
(...) Games threads: no, against forum rules.(...)
We would have to go into semantics for that since survivor is basically a reverse of a poll in Claymore forum where instead of voting on a most favourite character(s) we "vote" (by writing a name) on a least favourite one. Also you have double standards since Saimoe is basically the same thing and it is allowed despite "no game rule", lol. Not to mention "Treasure Hunter game" or "Design your Gundam" game or other games that aren't called "games". Popularity polls could also be considered as the same game as survivor I'm proposing unless users wouldn't have an option to reply and write who they voted on (and optionally - why they voted on that someone). So an argument "it's a bigger waste of bandwidth" is also out of the question.
In short, you don't want to create this thread because it depends solely on your good will (plus there are no moe characters).

And in the first place, I'm not even sure that Claymore survivor would even succeed and wouldn't die in the preparations stage so you could allow for a "probation" period and preparations thread and see whether there would be someone willing to organize all this and people willing to take part in it.

Quote:
Yes, because chapter releases are always so reliably out at the exact times every month?
Yes, because moderators are so reliable that the thread is created the moment spoilers/chapter is out? And then we have 5 or more pages of discussions which belong to the next chapter thread and twice as that of discussions that would fit as well to 116th and 117th thread (so why not open it earlier). What's more annoying, all of them have spoiler tags which makes discussing "unappealing". I don't know other moderator as reliable as Klashikari who at least took the effort of transferring the posts concerning 117th chapter from 116th thread to 117th thread once he created 117th thread.

Quote:
A thread discussing who got a guess right: no, pointless.
It's not a thread who got a guess right but an aggregator of most interesting posts which could trigger some responses from new (or less new) users or even from old users who would notice something they haven't earlier (if only because they didn't have as much information as they have now). Seriously, how did you get "A thread discussing who got a guess right" from a "Most interesting posts thread" or "Posts recycle" thread where users could post links and fragments/parts of most interesting ideas/theories/reviews or other forms of written goods and discuss about something again (or for a first time) ?

What's funniest in all of this, it was easier for to you to answer everything at once and write a rather long post than answer before a whole list of ideas was created. And all you needed was a little encouragement from me.
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Old 2011-12-29, 04:04   Link #650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
We would have to go into semantics for that since survivor is basically a reverse of a poll in Claymore forum where instead of voting on a most favourite character(s) we "vote" (by writing a name) on a least favourite one. Also you have double standards since Saimoe is basically the same thing and it is allowed despite "no game rule", lol. Not to mention "Treasure Hunter game" or "Design your Gundam" game or other games that aren't called "games". Popularity polls could also be considered as the same game as survivor I'm proposing unless users wouldn't have an option to reply and write who they voted on (and optionally - why they voted on that someone). So an argument "it's a bigger waste of bandwidth" is also out of the question.
Yup, semantics. I don't care if you don't approve. We have our reasons for why those threads exist, and they are exceptions to the rule.

Quote:
In short, you don't want to create this thread because it depends solely on your good will (plus there are no moe characters).
No moe characters? Wow, way to judge me without getting to know me. You're right that it's based on my good will though. It's not my job to play Genie and grant your wishes simply because you asked.

Quote:
Yes, because moderators are so reliable that the thread is created the moment spoilers/chapter is out? And then we have 5 or more pages of discussions which belong to the next chapter thread and twice as that of discussions that would fit as well to 116th and 117th thread (so why not open it earlier). What's more annoying, all of them have spoiler tags which makes discussing "unappealing". I don't know other moderator as reliable as Klashikari who at least took the effort of transferring the posts concerning 117th chapter from 116th thread to 117th thread once he created 117th thread.
You are not entitled to having a Chapter thread at all. We make them every month, without fail (seriously, when have we ever missed a month?), and this is the attitude you want to throw out? Oh poor you, can't discuss your favorite spoilers in a fresh thread right away, how horrible. Oh no, the posts of spoilers that aren't even right aren't migrated too. Boo hoo. Get over yourself.

Quote:
It's not a thread who got a guess right but an aggregator of most interesting posts which could trigger some responses from new (or less new) users or even from old users who would notice something they haven't earlier (if only because they didn't have as much information as they have now). Seriously, how did you get "A thread discussing who got a guess right" from a "Most interesting posts thread" or "Posts recycle" thread where users could post links and fragments/parts of most interesting ideas/theories/reviews or other forms of written goods and discuss about something again (or for a first time) ?
I generalized. The point is, it's meta posting, which we discourage. I let it happen in the Chapter thread because the community is small and it (usually) doesn't become excessive. I am not about to start entire threads around it though.

Quote:
What's funniest in all of this, it was easier for to you to answer everything at once and write a rather long post than answer before a whole list of ideas was created. And all you needed was a little encouragement from me.
All I needed was a bit of time and someone to whine about not getting what they want. Funny how that works.
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Old 2011-12-29, 06:08   Link #651
yononaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
For example, I have not seen a request for a thread discussing the Organization. A topic like this could have many different opinions on how it is run, who is in it, how it creates warriors, or the greater conflict with the DoD.
You haven't looked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka on 2007-06-14 View Post
How about a thread to talk about the ends and means/rights and wrongs/etc of the Organization all in one place? Seems like after the latest arc there's more focus on them than before, and the topic is probably at least as broad as that of Claymore biology.
It was denied on spoiler grounds (perhaps reasonably for the time the anime was on) and the long-orphaned World of Claymore thread created instead.

Note that I'm not mentioning this to harp, simply to point out the fact. It was, after all, the only thread request I've ever made on AS, so I remember it well.

***

As for getting (most) non-chapter discussions out of chapter threads, I'm 100% for it. People don't seem too interested in it though, I guess because they've become accustomed to one-stop-shopping in whatever thread is current. At the same time, there hasn't been much visible moderator interest in actively making new threads, and rightly or wrongly, quite a few people seem to feel the mods have no real interest in managing the Claymore section beyond moderating reported posts.

To be honest, I don't fully understand why the mods don't just allow free thread creation in sub-forums such as this. In what way is it better to condone extensive off-topic discussions in unrelated threads than to let people make new threads as needed? You may call that "clutter", but that way we'd at least have thread titles somewhat indicative of what's being discussed in them, instead of useful topics being unaccessible to lay posters who don't wish to chew through loads of completely unrelated posts. It seems like a needless extra burden the mods have taken upon themselves to always go through the song and dance of request->consideration. It doesn't work all that well when perceived mod disinterest and all-too-frequent denials (the reasons for which may be obvious to the mods, but not always to the members) discourage people from requesting.

Just to be clear, I say all this as someone who overall finds AS to be one of the best moderated boards I've been at. There's just something a little off in this section to me. Granted, it is somewhat of an oddity around here - an ongoing but montly manga with no concurrent anime, with ample active posters (but, as you said, no "dedicated" mods) and a lot of "downtime" for them to fill.
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Old 2011-12-29, 07:33   Link #652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka View Post
You haven't looked.
2007! Eesh. I can see why it was denied then, but that request would no longer be denied.


Quote:
quite a few people seem to feel the mods have no real interest in managing the Claymore section beyond moderating reported posts.
In a sense, that may be true. It's not intentional, it's just a matter of priority. When a series finishes, much of the audience moves on to the next new thing. More people equals more problems, generally, so with all of that activity we have to be more active ourselves in ensuring things run smoothly. With decreased activity, it's easier to be away more often to focus on those newer series, because if something does happen we can usually rely on reports to fill in for the gaps when we're not around to check up and see how things are.

Claymore is the exception to the rule in series subforums. It is one of the few series that has long ended its anime run, and it essentially revolves around two threads: images and new chapters. We don't normally do new chapter threads in other subforums anyway, since a general thread is typically enough to satisfy most discussion purposes. The number of people who discuss in this subforum is small as well, which tends to lead to cyclical and off topic discussion simply because "fresh" members are not as common anymore.

When it comes to thread creation, we restricted it after some of our forums were already established. For example Bleach, One Piece, and Naruto all have user created threads. The reasons why we restricted it to mod only creation are thus:

1. It cuts down on redundancy.
2. It cuts down on clutter.
3. It allows the moderators to step in and prevent problematic topics from being created.
4. It forces people to think about the thread instead of just simply making it; this tends to produce more focused topics.

Trying to box me into some kind of logic paradox isn't going to win me over. That is why I responded to gooral's post with a grumpy tone. I'm fully aware of how easy it is to play semantics with how a topic could be classified, but since this is clearly a problem of communication, I'll be more lengthy about why the requests were denied.

1. The Survivor game. This has two problems. The first is that it is clearly a forum game. The second is that it promotes versus discussion. "I think x is better than x, no I disagree". Is it more "interactive" than a character poll, sure, but character polls are an exception to the rules. They may not always produce intelligent discussion but they serve their purpose well enough.

2. Requests for information threads. I have created a translation thread, and a supplementary thread. That's about as far as I'm willing to go. If you want something more like a wiki, just go make a wiki. I'll be happy to link to it.

3. Requests for threads that discuss meta posting. In particular, the request for a thread where people discuss posts from the past that turned out to be accurate in restrospect. It may (or may not) be interesting to point such things out, but we do not need an entire thread for such purpose.

4. Complaints about how quickly a chapter thread is up. This one in particular irks me. This community knows damn well how fickle chapter releases can be. The time between spoilers, raws, translations, and actual fan releases varies wildly. Sometimes all of them come together quickly and a chapter is out fast, sometimes it can take weeks to show up. To further complicate things, the majority of the spoilers that appear right away tend to be fake, and the community likes to invent spoilers to pass the time.

Ultimately the key problem with the last point is that the community is going to have to ask themselves a question: how much moderator involvement do you want? To be blunt, I can easily make chapter discussion threads just about the chapter. I know many of you wouldn't like that and would think I was killing fun. On the other hand, the lax attitude the mods have toward the forum means threads aren't going to be created asap and thread requests may not be responded to immediately. Pick your poison.
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Old 2011-12-29, 09:27   Link #653
yononaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
1. It cuts down on redundancy.
2. It cuts down on clutter.
3. It allows the moderators to step in and prevent problematic topics from being created.
4. It forces people to think about the thread instead of just simply making it; this tends to produce more focused topics.
Short version: it cuts down on work? Which is not an unreasonable position to take with not that many moderators per a large forum, but could be stated more plainly.

At least in the Claymore sub-forum, it simply moves the redundancy and clutter from the thread listing to (typically) the chapter threads themselves; allows the moderators to overlook that unless there are complaints; and more or less forces people to go off topic in established threads because getting a new one created takes too much time and hassle and is quite likely a losing proposition. Unfortunately I don't think I'm exaggerating too much. Also, in the currect system there seems to be quite a bit of "I don't like it so I won't create it" involved, and I'm not sure the mods can always be the best judges of what topics are "pointless", especially if they're not actively engaged in a sub-board. So it just comes down to asserting authority, sometimes in an abrasive way (from both sides).

Quote:
Ultimately the key problem with the last point is that the community is going to have to ask themselves a question: how much moderator involvement do you want? To be blunt, I can easily make chapter discussion threads just about the chapter. I know many of you wouldn't like that and would think I was killing fun. On the other hand, the lax attitude the mods have toward the forum means threads aren't going to be created asap and thread requests may not be responded to immediately. Pick your poison.
I personally would much prefer for the chapter discussion threads to be about the chapters, or at least without lengthy detours. However, it would not be reasonable to clamp down on chapter threads without there being good places to direct the many non-chapter Claymore discussions. Perhaps there should be a proposal brainstorming round to get some more general discussion overflow threads created that would cover some domain but wouldn't be too narrowly focused. That's just my opinion though, not counting on it to be widely shared...

I'm not trying to box you into some kind of logic paradox or anything, and in fact I can continue to live with the current setup with the occasional grumble. I just don't think the situation is inevitable and I don't like the atmosphere where quite a few people secretly (or even semi-openly) resent the mods because they feel the mods (randomly) enforce but don't engage. I do not share this resentment myself, but in a way I can see why people have developed it. Trust me, I'd rather be lurking and making occasional snarky remarks than trying to be some kind of Claymore board reformer here (especially since I'm much more of an all-AS person and not a hard core Claymore fan, my recent posting record notwithstanding). In fact, had you not mentioned "my" Organization topic by chance, I probably wouldn't have said anything.

Last edited by yononaka; 2011-12-29 at 10:57. Reason: clarified an ambiguity
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Old 2011-12-29, 13:52   Link #654
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I've been following this discussion for awhile, and their has, in all honesty, been fair points raised by all. You have mentioned Solace however that, if people want to revive posting outside of the usual image/chapter threads that this forum has sadly degenerated into, they could dig up some old threads but with the new material that has been made since then. I'd like to point out, that that has already been tried, and it failed.

The purpose of the game thread is for fun, to bring in some potentially interesting discussion, to bring in new people, and to have fun.....a start to bringing new life and to eventually bring those old threads back....you just can't rebump the old threads first -- Gooral himself have tried that with the japanese thread and several others and that didn't work. We're all partially guilty for not getting involved especially since he posted some interesting debates in hopes of getting people to reply that I, and everyone else, and unfortunately, their were none....

.....which is why the suggestion for the game thread came up in the first place - to bring more people back in and new excitement to be this place first, and then, with said-life, bring those old threads back. Again, just rebumping the old threads won't work - it's been done. Their's alot of factors in why the forum has degenerated the way it has - some natural, like the old-timers eventually moving on from this place, others simpler reasons like lack of attention and laziness. It's a process however if this forum is ever going to recapture it's former glory; merely rebumping the old threads isn't it.

If nothing else, if my theory fails and those old threads never come back to life, at least we have a new game thread to have fun in and have something different aside from the usual chapter/image threads.....the old status quo doesn't have to just be returned too, because that doesn't solve anything in the first place - that just brings us back to square one. You recently however have an idea for something which is an "anime revisit" thread; to be honest, it's a bit strange since I can't recall anybody asking for such an idea -- it's a bit of a waste because something like that is only useful if many, most, if not all users around here are in on it as well...what's the point if only few people actually rewatch the anime? if that many? Something like an anime thread requires communication and everyone in on it at the same time. More likely then not, you are going to see extremely minimal posting done on that, unfortunately.
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Last edited by Shiek927; 2011-12-29 at 14:09.
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Old 2011-12-29, 17:07   Link #655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yononaka View Post
Short version: it cuts down on work? Which is not an unreasonable position to take with not that many moderators per a large forum, but could be stated more plainly.
Sure, it cuts down on work. It also helps keeps things organized. Short version, long version...guess it doesn't matter since either can be interpreted as the reader wishes.

Quote:
Also, in the currect system there seems to be quite a bit of "I don't like it so I won't create it" involved, and I'm not sure the mods can always be the best judges of what topics are "pointless", especially if they're not actively engaged in a sub-board. So it just comes down to asserting authority, sometimes in an abrasive way (from both sides).
The assumption that because moderators aren't frequent posters that we aren't engaged is flawed. At least in my case, I do read the threads a few times a week. I just don't post much because well....I got nothing to say.

As for the decisions of what is approved for thread requests and what isn't, yeah it's exactly like that. I look at the requests and decide if it's worth granting. Sometimes it's an obvious no, because it violates forum rules or I know from experience that it is more trouble than it is worth (for example, shipping/romance threads). Sometimes I need convincing: the idea either needs more explanation or the advocates need to better assure me the benefits outweigh the downsides. Sometimes I say yes immediately, because the idea is just good.

In all cases, this isn't a democracy. So yes, it's an assertion of authority, and you're appealing to it. All moderators try to be a fair as we can, but what we say, goes.

Quote:
I just don't think the situation is inevitable and I don't like the atmosphere where quite a few people secretly (or even semi-openly) resent the mods because they feel the mods (randomly) enforce but don't engage. I do not share this resentment myself, but in a way I can see why people have developed it.
I knew when I volunteered for the job that it wouldn't earn me many friends. I didn't volunteer for the fame, I did it to help the site as a whole. People can think what they want, but if the perception is that because we aren't always posting that we aren't keeping track of what is going on, they should rethink that position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
I've been following this discussion for awhile, and their has, in all honesty, been fair points raised by all. You have mentioned Solace however that, if people want to revive posting outside of the usual image/chapter threads that this forum has sadly degenerated into, they could dig up some old threads but with the new material that has been made since then. I'd like to point out, that that has already been tried, and it failed.

The purpose of the game thread is for fun, to bring in some potentially interesting discussion, to bring in new people, and to have fun.....a start to bringing new life and to eventually bring those old threads back....you just can't rebump the old threads first -- Gooral himself have tried that with the japanese thread and several others and that didn't work. We're all partially guilty for not getting involved especially since he posted some interesting debates in hopes of getting people to reply that I, and everyone else, and unfortunately, their were none....

.....which is why the suggestion for the game thread came up in the first place - to bring more people back in and new excitement to be this place first, and then, with said-life, bring those old threads back. Again, just rebumping the old threads won't work - it's been done. Their's alot of factors in why the forum has degenerated the way it has - some natural, like the old-timers eventually moving on from this place, others simpler reasons like lack of attention and laziness. It's a process however if this forum is ever going to recapture it's former glory; merely rebumping the old threads isn't it.

If nothing else, if my theory fails and those old threads never come back to life, at least we have a new game thread to have fun in and have something different aside from the usual chapter/image threads.....the old status quo doesn't have to just be returned too, because that doesn't solve anything in the first place - that just brings us back to square one. You recently however have an idea for something which is an "anime revisit" thread; to be honest, it's a bit strange since I can't recall anybody asking for such an idea -- it's a bit of a waste because something like that is only useful if many, most, if not all users around here are in on it as well...what's the point if only few people actually rewatch the anime? if that many? Something like an anime thread requires communication and everyone in on it at the same time. More likely then not, you are going to see extremely minimal posting done on that, unfortunately.
First point: yes, it was requested, and supported by someone else. And we have done this before, check the Macross and Toradora forums.

Second point: So let me get this straight. Attempts have been made to revive old threads, but people can't be bothered to leave the Chapter threads to support those efforts. However if we create this forum game, because it'll be "fun", that will (hopefully) get people out of that thread and into others? And if that fails, at least people will have something fun to relieve their boredom?

No, sorry. That's even more reason to not allow the thread.

The whole thing boils down to the Chapter threads being the problem, which is that they have become monthly generic discussion threads that also happen to be about the newest Chapter release.

People are going to have to accept that Claymore just isn't as popular as it used to be. Fresh members and discussion aren't as frequent as they used to be. Chapter releases are on a monthly basis, and it is easy to run out of things to discuss.

So yes, I'm going to be ornery when people have an attitude about how "long" it takes to create a new thread, or to review and respond to requests, or why people can't be arsed to migrate discussion to older threads without moderators forcing it to happen.

We could just as easily stop creating new chapter threads and instead relegate all discussion to the generic manga thread; it's not a right that ensures you have a regular discussion thread, it's a privilege.
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Old 2011-12-29, 18:47   Link #656
yononaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Sure, it cuts down on work. It also helps keeps things organized. Short version, long version...guess it doesn't matter since either can be interpreted as the reader wishes.
I was not trying to twist your words, I merely aimed to point out that keeping things organized on the surface level might not be what's called for when all it does is push the clutter into the existing threads as it happens here.

Quote:
The assumption that because moderators aren't frequent posters that we aren't engaged is flawed. At least in my case, I do read the threads a few times a week. I just don't post much because well....I got nothing to say.
I'm absolutely fine with you not posting as a fan if you lack motivation, that's not what I meant by engagement. Anyway, I'm not a spokesperson for anyone, so I'll leave it at that.

Quote:
As for the decisions of what is approved for thread requests and what isn't, yeah it's exactly like that. [...]
The point I was trying to make was that it helps to present these decisions in a way that avoids the appearance of ideas getting rejected more due to personal bias than any known rules or guidelines there may be. I think people generally expect what's not disallowed to get okayed, because that's how laws and regulations tend to work.

Quote:
In all cases, this isn't a democracy. So yes, it's an assertion of authority, and you're appealing to it. All moderators try to be a fair as we can, but what we say, goes.
Sorry, but while I do recognize it, I definitely am not appealing to your authority here, just talking to you as a person who might or might not be interested in my observations and ideas. I'm not asking you to do anything, just saying there are things I think you could do around here. As you've said, there are objective reasons for what goes on here, but I'm not a fatalist.

Quote:
I knew when I volunteered for the job that it wouldn't earn me many friends. I didn't volunteer for the fame, I did it to help the site as a whole. People can think what they want, but if the perception is that because we aren't always posting that we aren't keeping track of what is going on, they should rethink that position.
Why the underappreciated mod boilerplate? I don't know if people think that you're not keeping track, but OTOH if you have grievances against poster behavior here (as you seem to have based on your response to Shiek), then why not engage people about that on an ongoing basis instead of this (apparently) pent-up "we could show you/you're not entitled" talk now? I more or less agree with you about people not bothering to switch threads, so I personally wouldn't mind at all if the mods gently reminded people of that more often.

In any case, I think I'm just about done with my part here. My purpose was never to antagonize the sole mod who is at least somewhat visibly present around here, so if you feel I've done that, I haven't done a very good job expressing myself. I leave you with a thought I just had that appointing a "local guy" mod for this sub-forum might work well in increasing the engagement factor.
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Old 2011-12-30, 08:35   Link #657
Shiek927
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Solace, you don't need to bite my head off......sorry if I'm misinterpretating you, but angry seems to be the way your post is coming across; merely wanted to get my reasoning for the idea out there, and why it could work in more ways then one. I don't understand why you are feeling 'ornary' because I personally have never really been big on requests before nor do I have an attitude, if that's what you think -- I am merely getting my point of view on the subject out there.

As for this thread's popularity, it's because we are aware this thread isn't as active in places beyond the chapter/image threads as it used to be that their are these attempts in the first place; in the end after all, if nothing is done, it all returns to the status quo....whiich doesn't really help with hopefully getting this thread back on it's feet. You say for instance that Claymore isn't as popular as it used to be.....I flat out disagree -- lack of activity lately was just a series of conscious/unconscious things that happened over time with the people; people eventually silently moved on, as is natural in most forums; occasionally, such as Tempest or DragoZERO, they return from the newer series they have recently got into to talk here; others, undoubtedly, are lurkers who view this place often but haven't made an account which is what I commonly see here; my personal story myself. However, all and all, the enthusiastic close-knit group that essentially was this forum, have all largely moved on except for a few.

Not that, of course, many interesting people haven't come in the wake with their own unique views on things. The point is, the story's popularity has nothing to do with the way the forum is nowadays --- as far as I can tell, in terms of numbers, the forum hasn't really changed at all.....it's the people, the enthusasiam, which is my concern and target; I want to recoup the same fun and light-heartedness that their used to be around here, since, so much of the fun that comes from this place, isn't even concerning Claymore at all......Claymore and this forum is so small and niche, that almost everyone who comes here are regulars who all know eachother quite well.

Hopefully I'm getting across my standpoint; it's not that this forum has degenerated into nothing and we're "lucky", in terms of numbers and attention, that we still apparently have it as good as we do; if we're talking numbers, I haven't really seen much difference then it used to be (what's different from a few years back, is that their are many more different faces then just the same few people over and over); It's more so what this place could become again, which I know from memory was bigger and more exciting a few years back - it's something it could easily become again if the right steps were taken to get the loads of new people that show up frequently (which is undeniable; I'm seeing new faces all the time) more involved again and not just leave the status quo with the chapter/image threads.....not that that in itself is bad, but again, I know loads more fun could be had if we did it right; it's just a matter of getting the right push in the right direction.

No, It's silly to say Claymore is losing popularity, material etc....and it's honestly silly to say people are losing interest because, as I said, it's not that we have less people coming to these boards or becoming active.....it just feels that way, because, now, most people just stay in the chapter/image threads - why? - because that's just how it is: Nobody intended it, nobody meant anything by the other threads losing activity....it's wrong to say that it's just a sign that Claymore is losing it's grip and we're lucky we already have it so good -- that's just twisting it all up; The purpose of the game-thread is, as I said - to simply veer all the newcomers and newbies still around to something new which, hopefully, in turn, will introduce the new generation to the old generation of threads we used to have which, hopefully, as you yourself said, will help rebump them with the new info, revitilaze them, bring more oldtimers and newcomers in, and overall, help brighten up this place's sparkle again.

Uh uh, I can say it a million times if I have too - conscious/unconscious inactivity is the true reason this forum feels/seems so down; not because Claymore is losing popularity, or people have simply moved on, etc..... Most of the oldtimers are used to regularly visit are still around; they've merely are now looking at other series, or are busy with real life, or have now started lurking again....that doesn't mean they don't come by often, because seeing a familiar face from the past is a pretty recurring thing, even if they only post something small; they just don't post with the same day-by-day enthusiasm that others, like myself, still possess. Again, it's all about creating some extra incentive for more enthusiasm, to create further excitement to bring even more people in and, overall, spread everybody out more.

If anything, again, it seems like you're trying to do just that in your own way with the anime-rewatch thread; the only difference is I think that the game idea I feel has a greater chance of working and anime-rewatch idea, honestly, probably does not; but in the end, what difference does it make either way?

That seems to be what you tried to do; think about it, you say that my reasoning is wrong and that it's "even more reason" not to allow the game-thread, but what about that anime-rewatch thread? what was the point of creating that in the first place? What if that fails? It's the same basic thing and, more likely then not, it's going to be quicker and faster to potentially fail since it's seemingly a weekly thing (a new episode thread every week). Even though you're arguing against the game thread, in your own way, you also seem to want this forum back up again which is why you bumped up that anime-thread in the first place; their's no guarentee that either one is going to generate more interest or if people even glance at it......really, what it all boils down to is, one is a game thread and one is an anime-rewatch thread.

One at least though at least has the backing and interest of a few people and seems unique, the other is, well, an anime-rewatch thread (and the Claymore anime isn't exactly the most praised thing on earth, especially with regards to the ending >_<)....you said that two people have already wanted it before, which is nice that you, so quickly actually, did what they wanted.....but if we both have the same goals on helping this place, why not work with the idea more people want to work with and has a better chance of actually succeeding in it's intentions?
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Old 2011-12-30, 12:40   Link #658
Solace
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Anger? Somewhat. I'm just not sugarcoating my responses like I normally do. My sole irritant lies in the perception that the moderators "don't care", which is completely false. I've gone over this before, and I guess I have to reiterate it.

The simple fact of the matter is that yes, Claymore, on these forums at least, is no longer as popular as it used to be. Yes, there is a dedicated group of fans who have stuck around, and occasionally others come and go. I won't deny that. However, we are first and foremost an anime discussion board, and the anime is over. What is left is a dusty collection of old threads and a few people hardcore enough to wait month to month to talk about the manga chapter releases.

I've been through this cycle many times before....unless you haven't noticed, we have a lot of old and retired series that people have mostly moved on from.

We ensure that the threads are civil, that the monthly chapters are created in a reasonable time frame, and that requests are looked at. When it comes to requests, we have full discretion over what we will and will not allow, and the timeframe in which we choose to review/respond is ours to decide as well. No answer does not mean we haven't seen it. Assuming won't do you any favors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
but if we both have the same goals on helping this place, why not work with the idea more people want to work with and has a better chance of actually succeeding in it's intentions?
Because the suggestion for a survivor game is not the type of thread we want on our forums. It's as simple as that. I've mentioned exceptions before, and yes we do have plenty of them. Contest threads exist because we needed a place to funnel the discussion (Saimoe), or they serve a functional purpose (the banner contest helps keep the forum fresh), or they are something to help members (the SOTM is a fancy version of an old "help me improve" thread). We also have exceptions for threads that were created before the thread restrictions were implemented (notably stuff that got a forum around or before Bleach got a forum), or when a thread can produce topical discussion (Claymore Sword thread, or a character creation thread).

The survivor thread, whatever its intended purpose, would not garner an exception. It is a suggestion for a game that happens to be about Claymore, instead of a Claymore topic that could be a game. It's analogous to having a Claymore character instead of Mario in a SMB game, versus a game being all about Claymore.

The rewatch thread is all about Claymore. It offers the opportunity to revisit your favorite scenes, to see if your views on any particular episode or the series in general has changed, to see old characters/events in new ways now that you know more about them, etc. Plus, you get to pull old comments out and muse how right/wrong they were....I believe there was a thread request for that, no? Well now there's a way to do it and be on topic.

Yes, the ending to the anime sucked compared to the manga. Maybe with the rewatch, I'll have a different opinion on it. Or not.

I approved the rewatch thread quickly because the idea has been done before on other forums and has been quite successful. Reading this:

Quote:
and the Claymore anime isn't exactly the most praised thing on earth, especially with regards to the ending >_<
is a bit saddening. Yes, the ending isn't that great, but most of the people who got into Claymore weren't manga readers to start with. The anime is what got them into it. To dismiss the anime so readily, is disheartening.

Ultimately my point is that if you want me to be more involved, simply ask. There's no need for sarcastic comments or assumptions that we're only interested in leaving the community to die. If you want me to direct more traffic to other threads, I can do that. If you want me to clamp down on off topic discussion, I can do that.

What I won't do is bow to every request or be second guessed because I'm not immediately responding with detailed answers about why something was approved or not. This is volunteer work, and we're only human. We do the best we can with the time we have. Most importantly, if you want moderators to be more active, you have to be work with us too. Engagement is a two way street. Send PM's/VM's, use reports. That's why we have them. Expecting us to be omnipresent will only lead to bad feelings.
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Old 2011-12-30, 13:06   Link #659
Shiek927
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Thanks for the rapid and detailed response; actually the best post you've made with this entire discussion, particularly in that you went into why those other 'exceptional' games are, well, exceptional -- after all, their are only so many that can be considered such before it feels like favoritism is playing a part somewhere, but your words at least explain a different story for each of them.

It's fine if you're upset because people have had perceptions about you, but their's no need to vent it out in public unless your speaking to someone individually - other people don't necessarily feel the same or are even aware of these perceptions. It's the same with "sarcastic responses or assumptions"...unless I'm mistaken, I don't think I've given you that kind of treatment - no need to assume people have negative attitudes and fire-back in response; I wasn't even aware you sugarcoat your words in the first place - up till now, at least with this discussion, you seem to have been the opposite .

Lack of communication on both sides seems to be what's seemingly building up all this negative attention and perception -- lack of response and/or attention from moderators for the users, and annoyed users, whether justified or not, annoys the mods who are not as invisible as people think, yet not as "omnipresent" as you said. When you get down a think about it - everybody's seemingly angry simply because nobody is talking ; kind of silly actually.

Emotions aside, and barring Claymore's popularity or possible lack-their-of which I already went into (at least on this forum mind you), It's interesting that you say that the anime-rewatch threads have been successful in other threads for other series - who knows, maybe it succeeds in the original goal in the first place. I personally don't think it will work because, as I said, something like that I feel needs bigger communication between everybody....no point in it if nobody is actually rewatching it in the first place, but who knows....anything is possible I suppose. It doesn't feel like much, but, in a way, what's most important actually is that everyone at least seems to share the same sentiment that this place could use a little rivigorating - everyone just seems to have a different idea about going about it.

At any rate, thanks for the clarifying response
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Old 2011-12-30, 15:21   Link #660
Gooral
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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@Solace
So survivor is a "no" but you're considering another poll? That would still be great but IMO that won't generate as much discussion as survivor would. I would still vote for Clare, Teresa, Galatea and Jean (or only on Teresa if it was 1-choice only poll) as I did in the previous one. New characters that were introduced since then changed nothing. But in a Galatea vs. Jean match I would have a dilemma since I like both of them and would have to shoot the one I would want less to advance further. This would create many interesting posts since I would have to convince myself which character I like more or which one is better written using analysis and arguments. That's the best thing in this game - that almost every match is exciting and you're facing a dilemma who to choose. Sometimes you notice something new that way. Of course there would be people who wouldn't be so thorough and just shoot the uglier one but that's another thing that makes this game fun. A poll is much more straightforward and gives less room for any kind of discussions.

The truth is, Claymore is the most popular "old series" on this forum maybe except for Code Geass. So it shouldn't be strange that fans would ask for threads like we asked to gather even more fans. More fans triggers more responses which triggers more fans appearing. Claymore manga has many characters and quite a big, well designed world which gives a broad field to discuss. And survivor would by default trigger discussions and revitalize this forum. Personally, I don't get why moderators here are so restrictive about creating a thread. A thread that isn't necessary or doesn't interest people will die on it's own. The same goes for even most heated discussions where sometimes mods intervene and cut it short even though adversaries themselves were losing interest in it. Maybe you should consider "a day without restrictions" or sth like that when an option of creating a thread would be opened (and to avoid a potential chaos not all sub-forums would be opened at the same day). That way some interesting threads that weren't created for some reason could be created and would receive a probation time where moderators would see whether it's serving it's purpose or is it just spam. Yeah, yeah, I know, it's not democracy. But since it isn't forbidden to speak up one's mind (yet) I'm using my prerogative to do so. Worst case scenario it will be deleted or cut (and I'll be banned :P).

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2011-12-30 at 19:58. Reason: Removed reply to flamebait post
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