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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 06
10: Amazing... 3 4.62%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 4 6.15%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 11 16.92%
7 out of 10: Good... 16 24.62%
6 out of 10: Average... 14 21.54%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 7 10.77%
4 out of 10: Poor... 5 7.69%
3 out of 10: Bad... 1 1.54%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 2 3.08%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 2 3.08%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-11-14, 16:51   Link #101
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by K-Sama
Well then what mindset are you watching it in?
If I was watching this show in a UC mindset I'd be banned 3x times as fast about now...I'm just watching it with the understanding that it's for kids, but also with an understanding that I've watched countless anime targeted at younger kids and that I've seen plenty that handle similar circumstances better...

I mean C'mon the little girl just wanders into the street with the Haro to set-up the scene of her father because they showed nothing to back up the claims of tangent violence against the colonizers other than that?

It's so heavy handed...Much like Grodek's super-obvious tampering last week when he setoff 800 alarms and blinking lights, and had to explain his seemingly very sensitive plans to this young defiant girl...You telling me this stuff is being handled deftly? Not that it has to be, but even for something light it's a bit lazy...

Quote:
Yeah and that would be again as I keep trying to explain because we haven't actually been formally introduced to the factions yet, we've just gotten a very little amount of back story from one incidental character who has also just been introduced.
What does it matter if we've been introduced to the warring factions or not? I get a better feeling of the intensity or lack thereof from whomever is fighting based on the level of battle...While this is an aesthetic problem for me aswell, an intrinsic level of fighting based on the circumstances is something that intrigues me on the backstory instead of disengage me...SO while you see it as something that's inconsequential, I see it as lazy device, or skipped detail that's representative of the kind of show this is...

Quote:
Why would you need fight choreography for a group of grounded grunt mobile suits fighting in tight quarters inside a colony while merely going through the soulless motions of a long since pointless fight with the other faction?
Again, why not engage me on a level that's beyond static so that I care about what's taking place as opposed to being apathetic to it? There is no care in the presentation of what's taking place so it's easy to look at it in a manner to suggest that this is the type of $hit a kids' show would do..


Quote:
I completely disagree, it's had plenty of different types of plotlines, tones and character arcs set up so far. We've so far had 2 revenge motives, a fraying frienship, themes of war versus peace and when wars should be fought and for what reasons, mysterious adversaries with as yet uncertain motives, war profiteering, insubordination, corruption, lightheartedness, dealing with loss of a loved one, conspiracies, an ace pilot looking to prove his ability and not get left behind, plans to attack a base being made, ambushes, shady back room deals that could easily bite some people in the ass, mysterious as yet unclarified powers.....and that's just for what's been emerging 6 episodes into what looks to be a 50 episode series.
I'm sorry, I could provide the same list you just churned out of how passively all these things have been in exposition...Just because you have mysterious opponents doesn't mean it's been done well...Just because you have a revenge plot doesn't mean it has depth...Just because you have a guy leveraging a secret war vessel on someone who has been corrupt in the military doesn't mean it has cachet...

You win the argument that the show has someway or somehow shown these things, but how have they shown these things? What level of depth have they shown it in? You seem to think it's been rather creative; it looks by the books to me if that...

I could have 100$ million dollars yet dress in cutoff jean shorts and a wife-beater and people would judge me based on how I present myself...To me, AGE has alot of axillary things that seem to be interesting, but they're presenting most of these things on a very simplistic or flat-out laissez-faire level, so I have no choice but to judge it as so...
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Old 2011-11-14, 16:52   Link #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
You're making the assumtions those fortifications are only in that are. Personally I imagined them as a city wide feature from the war days and not specifically built for the nutters we saw in the episode. It would be pretty silly and inneficient if it was built with them in mind. Though I would LOL if they explain it as that later on.
Well, they must have been built in case of something. And since they know a civil war is going on-- I sure as hell assume our good guys would have some thoughts about the worry of little kids wander into that area. Then again, security isn't the best.

It's generally something that you would know when you see it. It's just not something you'd walk straight into.
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:17   Link #103
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She didn't walk straight into it since it came up as soon as the Gundam started approuching. Now that I think about those two are pretty dumb for being the only ones to get caught outside the walls. Perfect stupid wifu and hubby combination.
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:30   Link #104
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Ah, the joys and foolishness of childhood.

But with a MS.

/jealous
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:53   Link #105
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To hell with MS, I want my own battlecruiser. 8D

It's much more confortable. Hehe.

Hey now that I think about it Diva is just a little bit off from being a interstellar pirate ship.

Checklist
  1. the captain's a thief
  2. makeshift crew
  3. the ship is stolen
  4. it's got shinies on board
  5. Wolf is as close to a pirate second in command as it gets
All it needs is a flag!

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
It's probably quite easy when the technology you speak of involves giant robots that were mainly used by the military. You simply forbid the military to make use of them and for weapons manufacturer to build them.

As for the private sector, most people (at least initially) probably can't afford to have one. And those who can afford it will have to be careful in its usage since you can't really hide a giant robot for too long.

But, as with many other things, time and space will eventually provide a way as long as the knowledge to build and use mobile suits is preserved.
Hm. Yeah, forgot this was pretty much hush-hush military tech we're talkign about to begin with.
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Old 2011-11-14, 18:04   Link #106
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Hmm, I'm not too sure about the battlecruiser. Mind you, the concept of a flying armored hotel sounds awesome especially if it's luxurious, the problem is that it's a huge target and you need a lot of crew to man the thing.

But if it comes with its own crew; sure

Then again you could argue it would carry its own set of MS. I really have no objections.
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Old 2011-11-14, 18:05   Link #107
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
To hell with MS, I want my own battlecruiser. 8D

It's much more confortable. Hehe.

Hey now that I think about it Diva is just a little bit off from being a interstellar pirate ship.

Checklist
  1. the captain's a thief
  2. makeshift crew
  3. the ship is stolen
  4. it's got shinies on board
  5. Wolf is as close to a pirate second in command as it gets
All it needs is a flag!

Hm. Yeah, forgot this was pretty much hush-hush military tech we're talkign about to begin with.
Spoiler for ???:
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Old 2011-11-14, 20:35   Link #108
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
Why do the gundams on the station seem to be made for terestrial gravity? Wouldn't that mean that all they had to do was to turn off the gravity to have them turn into a duck shooting gallery? Sounds like a pretty useless model to have anywhere in a space era.
Space colonies are meant to...ya know, mimic conditions on Earth. One of those conditions is, you guessed it, GRAVITY!

Turning the gravity off in the colony would probably do loads more of damage and inconvenience everyone more than the actual battle.
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Old 2011-11-14, 22:43   Link #109
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If I was watching this show in a UC mindset I'd be banned 3x times as fast about now...I'm just watching it with the understanding that it's for kids, but also with an understanding that I've watched countless anime targeted at younger kids and that I've seen plenty that handle similar circumstances better...
You're watching it wrong then... The show really isn't made for kids, otherwise kids would actually be interested in watching the show. It certainly lacks elements that would attract kids as discussed before in other threads.

The problem with this show seems to be one of creative skill, or lack thereof... The directing, storyboarding and scripting are all a bit unrefined and amateurish in quality, which is no surprise since Susumu Yamaguchi is a first time TV anime director, and the script (at least for this and the last ep) is by none other than Akihiro Hino who is infamous for his scripting skills (or lack thereof)... However, its still a show that's trying to tell a good story. If you watch the show with an open mind, there's clearly qualities and intricacies to the plot that you are missing. Just have to analyze it a bit more and not dismiss it as just a kids' show, which it really isn't trying to be (well, maybe it is, but I think its deeper than that).

And actually, I'd say AGE is like an old-school, 70's or early 80's anime, back when Japanese animation was a developing artform and creators were all as inexperienced as Mr. Yamaguchi here, and shows were full of logic gaps, strange pacing, funky direction, continuity problems, and of course, bad animation - but if you watch them for their inner qualities, you'd be able to appreciate them alot more. It'd be like First Gundam all over again.
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:05   Link #110
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You're watching it wrong then... The show really isn't made for kids, otherwise kids would actually be interested in watching the show. It certainly lacks elements that would attract kids as discussed before in other threads.
Dude this show is for kids'...Whether or not kids' are demographically watching it is another story...I've said several times while watching this show they're doing a bad job at it...But if it isn't for kids, then man you might have just started a nuclear winter ...

That waning excitement aside...


Quote:
However, if you watch the show with an open mind, there's clearly qualities and intricacies to the plot that you are missing. Just have to analyze it a bit more and not dismiss it as just a kids' show, which it really isn't trying to be.
I'm actually watching the show and trying to enjoy it despite how I naturally see it...Like you and many here, we've watched hundreds of titles...I think we are all well acclimated to how we all compartmentalize and watch certain things...

I never watched an episode of Yugioh like i watched an episode of Golgo 13, so the same premise exists here...Regardless of what you may think or interpreted based on what my quote was, I know how to watch stuff, and to give stuff a chance even when i may have preconception to overjudge it...I'm just calling Gundam AGE like I see it, like I've done for every G-show up in this piece...


Quote:
And really, I think that, as a fan of Tomino's Gundam shows you should be able to overlook amateurish directing skills and scripting problems and dissect a show that way.
I don't see it the same as you do brightman...Conceptually Tomino was working on a far more sublime level compared to this...Just because his shows had some dopeyness or goofy looking characters doesn't mean it compares favorably in this instance...The tonal authenticity is absent from these characters which appear quite purposeful for the marketing angle...Which I find funny now that i think about it since Tomino is classic for adding characters, themes, etc. just to stick it to Sunrise for trying to make him conform to outside commercial aspects...
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:15   Link #111
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Dude this show is for kids'...Whether or not kids' are demographically watching it is another story...I've said several times while watching this show they're doing a bad job at it...But if it isn't for kids, then man you might have just started a nuclear winter ...

That waning excitement aside...
Yeah dude, its really not for kids.

You got it wrong all along.

Spoiler:


Quote:
I'm actually watching the show and trying to enjoy it despite how I naturally see it...Like you and many here, we've watched hundreds of titles...I think we are all well acclimated to how we all compartmentalize and watch certain things...

I never watched an episode of Yugioh like i watched an episode of Golgo 13, so the same premise exists here...Regardless of what you may think or interpreted based on what my quote was, I know how to watch stuff, and to give stuff a chance even when i may have preconception to overjudge it...I'm just calling Gundam AGE like I see it, like I've done for every G-show up in this piece...
Understand. That's just the way I look at it and managed to enjoy the show. It's different for everybody.
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:24   Link #112
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Originally Posted by brightman View Post
You're watching it wrong then... The show really isn't made for kids, otherwise kids would actually be interested in watching the show. It certainly lacks elements that would attract kids as discussed before in other threads.

The problem with this show seems to be one of creative skill, or lack thereof... The directing, storyboarding and scripting are all a bit unrefined and amateurish in quality, which is no surprise since Susumu Yamaguchi is a first time TV anime director, and the script (at least for this and the last ep) is by none other than Akihiro Hino who is infamous for his scripting skills (or lack thereof)... However, its still a show that's trying to tell a good story. If you watch the show with an open mind, there's clearly qualities and intricacies to the plot that you are missing. Just have to analyze it a bit more and not dismiss it as just a kids' show, which it really isn't trying to be (well, maybe it is, but I think its deeper than that).

And actually, I'd say AGE is like an old-school, 70's or early 80's anime, back when Japanese animation was a developing artform and creators were all as inexperienced as Mr. Yamaguchi here, and shows were full of logic gaps, strange pacing, funky direction, continuity problems, and of course, bad animation - but if you watch them for their inner qualities, you'd be able to appreciate them alot more. It'd be like First Gundam all over again.
You know what, I'll actually accept this assessment of the show and say mines essentially the same, though I think the reason for lack of creativity and polish is that we're just getting to the point of revealing the big picture of the AGE universe and diverging from the standard Gundam startup plotline. For example Gundam 00 was extremely slow, deliberate and a tad repetitive in it's world building for it's first 10 or so episodes, but then steadily got more and more intricate and involving as the situation started to change and we learned more and more about the universe and what roles the characters were going to play in it.

Also I'd say that episode 03 was easily the best done of this series so far. I also think the director is doing a decent job and just needs a little more story to work with than we've had so far, but again all signs point to us getting there and I think people are overlooking a ton of things that seem like they are going to become really important later. Yamaguchi has primarily been an animation and movie Director and there's a definite cinematic quality to his efforts (especially with episode 03), but I definitely sense said effort as you do and I think he'll learn by experience as time goes on and steadily get better and better as he works on the show more.

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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Dude this show is for kids'...Whether or not kids' are demographically watching it is another story...I've said several times while watching this show they're doing a bad job at it...But if it isn't for kids, then man you might have just started a nuclear winter ...

That waning excitement aside...




I'm actually watching the show and trying to enjoy it despite how I naturally see it...Like you and many here, we've watched hundreds of titles...I think we are all well acclimated to how we all compartmentalize and watch certain things...

I never watched an episode of Yugioh like i watched an episode of Golgo 13, so the same premise exists here...Regardless of what you may think or interpreted based on what my quote was, I know how to watch stuff, and to give stuff a chance even when i may have preconception to overjudge it...I'm just calling Gundam AGE like I see it, like I've done for every G-show up in this piece...




I don't see it the same as you do brightman...Conceptually Tomino was working on a far more sublime level compared to this...Just because his shows had some dopeyness or goofy looking characters doesn't mean it compares favorably in this instance...The tonal authenticity is absent from these characters which appear quite purposeful for the marketing angle...Which I find funny now that i think about it since Tomino is classic for adding characters, themes, etc. just to stick it to Sunrise for trying to make him conform to outside commercial aspects...
.....Stubborn

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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
On the subject of the factions fighting:

I guess it was kinda weird that Emily could so easily run into what is considered a war zone when nobody told them about it.

It seems like the best way to explain this is that Emily effectively ran into the bad part of town (The Federation won't handle this issue) and this part is effectively overrun by gang warfare.

I see these guys as essentially thugs, regardless of what faction they call themselves as. They're aren't very skilled, but they use number and force in a pissing contest with the other side, terrorizing everyone involved. But note they are effectively cowards; they only use intimidation tactics and are too afraid to actually go through with the implications of "war". Instead they just fire at each haphazardly, scaring the crap out of each other and bystanders to prove their "superiority". They're not soldiers or warriors-- so I call them thugs. They must have some kind of connections, since they are able to acquire some mechs to do fighting. It's basically a large scale turf war. And when fights do actual damage ... everyone ends up freaking out. It went too far.

In a world where mechas are commonly used as weapons, this really isn't that out of place. In fact, can you name any period of time where wars and skirmishes weren't the norm? In the less stable places with less order, any group of assholes that can get their hands on some junk mechs would be doing this shit, simply because they can.

So the only real issue is that the crew of the Diva needs to really tell people where to avoid.

And they really need to keep track of their Gundams. :S
Remember that it wasn't a war zone when she ran out there, it was just a city corner and that's where Flit found Emily. It only turned into a war zone after Flit found her.
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:29   Link #113
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Originally Posted by brightman
And actually, I'd say AGE is like an old-school, 70's or early 80's anime, back when Japanese animation was a developing artform and creators were all as inexperienced as Mr. Yamaguchi here, and shows were full of logic gaps, strange pacing, funky direction, continuity problems, and of course, bad animation - but if you watch them for their inner qualities, you'd be able to appreciate them alot more. It'd be like First Gundam all over again

Holy $hit, you know how bad I wished I agree with you! I just don't see it...As time has progressed and we've seen more stuff, and our expectations have evolved based on the sheer quantity of stuff (Gundam related stuff), we look at things a bit differently...

I mean in 1998, a crap SVHS of Dragonball Z would be enuff to eclipse my world, but as time has changed, expectations have aswell...So in 2011, I can't say I'm going to understand bad animation and continuity errors in Gundam when the latter was morso a victim of the times, and/or a lack of stream-lined technology...After GSD, continuity errors and bad animation has no pillow to fall on^^...
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:32   Link #114
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Holy $hit, you know how bad I wished I agree with you! I just don't see it...As time has progressed and we've seen more stuff, and our expectations have evolved based on the sheer quantity of stuff (Gundam related stuff), we look at things a bit differently...

I mean in 1998, a crap SVHS of Dragonball Z would be enuff to eclipse my world, but as time has changed, expectations have aswell...So in 2011, I can't say I'm going to understand bad animation and continuity errors in Gundam when the latter was morso a victim of the times, and/or a lack of stream-lined technology...After GSD, continuity errors and bad animation has no pillow to fall on^^...
I think he's just describing janky 70's mecha shows like Getter Robo (which was notorious for all of the problems he mentioned )not actually saying that Gundam AGE suffers from all of these same issues. In other words Gundam AGE reminds one somewhat of these shows but isn't necessarily like completely like them.

Also I can't really stress how bizarre watching the original Gundam TV series is compared to the movies. That show had some issues to put it mildly during it's first cut. I could talk all day about how Tomino isn't quite the genius that people make him out to be, but somehow managed to make do and produce a legendary hit that has lasted several decades. I wonder if Yamaguchi has the same qualities to pull off something like that with AGE....hmmmmm....
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:35   Link #115
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I think he's just describing janky 70's mecha shows like Getter Robo...

^Yes he is, which is why I'm saying I can't apply that similar feel to Gundam AGE, not that AGE has shown alot of production problems, more than conceptional problems IMO...
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:41   Link #116
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^Yes he is, which is why I'm saying I can't apply that similar feel to Gundam AGE, not that AGE has shown alot of production problems, more than conceptional problems IMO...
Gundam AGE has had some mediocre animation choices at time, but I really don't see how it compares to something like Getter Robo or the original Mobile Suit Gundam, shows where characters and robots are constantly struggling to stay on model and people and events jump around so much that you start to wonder if the episode was put together out of order somehow. Though perhaps it's best to let brightman clarify since now I'm not really sure after reading his post again.

In any case this is good.....this is great stuff. Finally a debate that isn't devolving into complete stupidity and where everyone involved seems to have their facts and points at least moderately straight and organized. High fives all around!
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:43   Link #117
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Also I can't really stress how bizarre watching the original Gundam TV series is compared to the movies. That show had some issues to put it mildly during it's first cut.
Certainly...Goes without saying, but there is an authenticity factor at work that makes it un-comparable to AGE, which I know you don't want to compare based on your mantra on these issues... Yamaguchi has "advantages" Tomino could never dream of, so unless he's just doing a straight homage (which clearly isn't the case), I'm just gonna judge it based on watching it...



Quote:

In any case this is good.....this is great stuff. Finally a debate that isn't devolving into complete stupidity and where everyone involved seems to have their facts and points at least moderately straight and organized. High fives all around!
LMAO, this is where you kill it everytime...Just let it happen, let it be man...just enjoy it...We don't need to footnote it... Jimminey Christmas bro^^...
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:49   Link #118
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Certainly...Goes without saying, but there is an authenticity factor at work that makes it un-comparable to AGE, which I know you don't want to compare based on your mantra on these issues... Yamaguchi has "advantages" Tomino could never dream of, so unless he's just doing a straight homage (which clearly isn't the case), I'm just gonna judge it based on watching it...
Please define, "Authenticity Factor".

e: Okay I assume you mean suspension of disbelief and realism, which I will agree to, but only in the case of the movies, not the TV Show. Still doesn't automatically make Gundam AGE a bad show though just because it's lacking on that front. Redline, which I just saw for example has nothing resembling realism or plausability and the same goes for series like G Gundam, which again I think is the best comparison for this show. Both own pretty hard in my eyes, but whether this show reaches the same level of bromantic awesomeness and emotional involvement that G Gundam had remains to be seen. G Gundam I'll add also had an extremely rough start with some hit or miss episodes that were a little on the repetitive side but still enjoyable for me cause it was all in good fun. I think that's the sort of thing that brightman is trying to suggest to you.
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Old 2011-11-15, 01:34   Link #119
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^It's authentic in the sense it sets the baseline for Gundam in general...Yes, suspension of disbelief and realism of course as that's part of the original foundation, but Gundam AGE is "bad" (if it is) because I'm watching the episodes and it's not engaging me on things I look at that I enjoy from shows (I can't help that my knowledge from seeing all the Gundam series are prevalent in my mind at times)...

My tastes are my tastes...Even if i suppress them to give something a chance or compartmentalize I still have them...Flit meeting Wolf in an obvious attempt to force their friendship; the way it's handled in another show can engage me, but here it was on the same level as something I saw in an episode of Yugioh or something...

I'm not on a witch hunt in the slightest, I'm just not feeling certain things and from my experience in watching this stuff, I know when I'm being impressed and when I'm seeing clear flaws...It's intangible to be sure, but this is the only way to explain it short of a mind transfer...

Redline was genius BTW...Because anime is an artform first and foremost, so if you don't love the artform, that's a component you're looking to be enhanced by other things you may very well enjoy (Story, characters, spectacle, plotting)...If those things fail or seem lacking then you're not in a good place as a viewer...That said, these things can change...
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Old 2011-11-15, 03:31   Link #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
^It's authentic in the sense it sets the baseline for Gundam in general...Yes, suspension of disbelief and realism of course as that's part of the original foundation, but Gundam AGE is "bad" (if it is) because I'm watching the episodes and it's not engaging me on things I look at that I enjoy from shows (I can't help that my knowledge from seeing all the Gundam series are prevalent in my mind at times)...

My tastes are my tastes...Even if i suppress them to give something a chance or compartmentalize I still have them...Flit meeting Wolf in an obvious attempt to force their friendship; the way it's handled in another show can engage me, but here it was on the same level as something I saw in an episode of Yugioh or something...

I'm not on a witch hunt in the slightest, I'm just not feeling certain things and from my experience in watching this stuff, I know when I'm being impressed and when I'm seeing clear flaws...It's intangible to be sure, but this is the only way to explain it short of a mind transfer...

Redline was genius BTW...Because anime is an artform first and foremost, so if you don't love the artform, that's a component you're looking to be enhanced by other things you may very well enjoy (Story, characters, spectacle, plotting)...If those things fail or seem lacking then you're not in a good place as a viewer...That said, these things can change...
Alright that's fair enough. I get where you're coming from here a bit more now.
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