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Old 2011-01-30, 05:47   Link #1
Solace
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Claymore Translation Thread

I'm giving this a shot since there has been numerous passionate and well reasoned arguments for this threads existence. It's experimental, and I reserve the right to remove this thread if I see it being abused. Let's lay down some ground rules:

1. Claymore is licensed. No mention of any scanlating groups, websites, or translators is allowed. Only original Japanese raw text and official translations are allowed to be mentioned by name.

2. No linking of any illegal content. This includes images. If you need to post an image, don't upload the entire page. Crop only the part you are discussing for translation discussion and use an image host. Full pages and/or hotlinking from illegal hosting sites will result in removal of link/image and infraction.

3. This is NOT a chapter translation thread. This thread exists purely to clarify particular translation issues in text for English audiences. Examples include naming of characters, places, objects, techniques, or words from Japanese that are difficult to translate in context (as opposed to literal).

4. Don't abuse this. It is a privilege, and abuse means it will never, ever come back.
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Old 2011-04-19, 01:53   Link #2
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Since no one bothered to even post one reply (probably because of stupid rule about translators names - **** for example is Animesuki user) I'll gather some translation issues:
Spoiler for long list of quotes:
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Old 2011-04-21, 19:57   Link #3
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I meant to post in this thread ages ago, but time considerations and all... might as well start now.

A note about names - from my post in the chapter 114 thread:
Quote:
to answer your question, Rune = Rene ...
The Japanese name is ルネ (RU-NE - pronounced "Rue-neh"). The Japanese have a weird alphabet which does not map 1-1 with English (hence when they take a foreign name and use it in Japanese, information is almost always lost). Sometimes it's necessary to guess as to what the original was (when the translator doesn't know, they normally leave in the original: Rune/Lune [both are correct transliterations]). Turns out someone here noticed that the Japanese mangle the name Reneé into ルネ.
So some translators leave Rune/Lune for consistency - others use Rene/Reneé since that seems to be a good guess as any as to what it actually is meant to be.
Same thing applies to ユマ(Yuma ['you-mah']) / Uma, イレネ(Irene['e-ray-neh']) / Illena, & ルヴル(Ruvuru/Rubel) / Louvre.
There are even certain names no one has figured out yet - for example リフル(Riful/Rifuru).

This is not something that is unique to Claymore either. For example Norse mythology's 3 fates are: Uršr, Veršandi, & Skuld - not Urd, Belldandy, and Skuld as Oh! My goddess! would have you believe.
Sometime also the name sounds ridiculous in English because it is an English word with a meaning - Guts from Berserk and a lot of Dragonball characters suffer from this... Freezer, Cooler, etc...
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Old 2011-05-07, 15:59   Link #4
Gooral
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In chapter 93 one of the translators has translated this part (2 years ago, probably when his English wasn't as good as it is today):

あんたに言われなくたってそんな一か八かで戦ったりはしないわよ
as:
Even if you don’t tell me not to, I wouldn’t fight against such odds.

I was thinking of sth like this:
1) Even if you hadn't told me to not do it I wouldn't fight against such odds

Przemoc has come up with these:
2) Even if you hadn't told me to avoid fight, I would do it against such odds
3) I wouldn't fight against such odds even if you hadn't told me to avoid this battle

So which version do you think is best? Or maybe you have your own?

Edit:
I'm not asking to translate from Japanese, I'm asking to make it look better in English. The original translation is perfectly understandable but I think conditionals have to be used here.

Edit 2:
It's been changed by the translator to: Even without you telling me so, I wouldn’t fight against such odds. So this concludes it.

Edit 3:
I've found a perfect post for this thread. For example, Cyclone has clarified that dragon kin isn't the right translation. Descendants of dragons is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
(...)
The term was - and always has been - "ryuu no matsuei no ichozoku" meaning "tribe/race of the descendants of dragons".
These DoDs (for short) are one race on the enemy's side. The enemies side does not have a name (neither does the Org's side).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
Awesome to hear it's back! Thank you Mods.
(Oh well - there goes any reason for joking about Galatea's wrists...)

about that line in particular though:

"だがその一方の勢力がまるで龍の末裔とも言われるような強固な外皮を持つ人外の種族を仲間に引き 入れ"

人外 - absence of human habitation (or breech of morals; inhuman treatment)
種族 - race/tribe/species

Does that mean that the DoDs are a race from some unpopulated area, that they have no area of their own (are nomads), or what exactly? Or am I misreading that entirely (or should I be reading 人外 as simply it's parts [ouside (of) humans] instead)?

Last edited by Gooral; 2011-07-06 at 00:25. Reason: Added DoDs
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Old 2011-07-06, 01:09   Link #5
Gooral
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I've got a question about translation of the names. On some other forum here's how someone has translated them (mentioning only the ones that differ from other translations):
Quote:
Originally Posted by soluuloi
A friend who knows Japanese told me their correct nicknames, sound interesting so I create this topic on my whim.

Cassandra: enduring one - the one who have to/have already endured everything in life. It's also mean she has a really hard life.
Sistina: the genesis - creating the world from the start.
Roxanne: mistress of love - her nickname means she is crazy when it come to "love". What kind of "love" is not certant here.
Teresa: the fainted smile - still the same. But smile is just enough.
Lutecia: universal - very true to M****S***** version. But it may has another mean which is completely opposite the first mean.
Hysteria: tears leaving - yeah, sound stupid in English but beautiful in Japanese. It mean that after the strike (or the fight?), there's only tears left (of her or the ones who she killed is uncertant).
And here's what Japanese-English dictionary says:

Spoiler for wall of text:
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Old 2011-07-06, 16:29   Link #6
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Edit: Question about ruby answered.

Last edited by Kinematics; 2011-07-07 at 00:37.
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Old 2011-07-07, 01:55   Link #7
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Closer look at the names, given the kanji plus the ruby text for each. Translation that matches the ruby text given below each.

Spoiler for wall of text:


Of course all this does is allow us to be sure of the literal meanings. It fails to account for subtler connotations, puns, innuendo or poetic license, so can't really answer the question of the validity of those 'alternate' translations.

Well, hopefully this is useful for someone.
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Old 2011-07-07, 16:31   Link #8
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Additional thoughts:

Sistina the Divine Oracle vs. Sistina the Genesis.

The kanji for Divine Oracle can be loosely considered as being the "words of heaven", which itself may be related to the English phrase, the "word of God". In the Bible (Genesis), God spoke and created all things. Thus it's possible for the train of meaning to reach Sistina the Genesis (of sorts). So, Sistina the Genesis is not completely outside the bounds of possibility.

There are several possible ways one could come up with the reasoning for such a name.

One such harkens to the original Frankenstein movie, with the mad scientist screaming "It's alive!", or of Genesis itself. That is, the mad scientist (Dea, perhaps) playing the role of God, and by his word was she made. Main counter to this was the fact that they had already been successful creating male Claymores. Maybe Dae's first successful creation? (ie: other scientists had been involved in the earlier work on males) A rather arrogant choice of naming if that's the case, though.

Another possibility is some sort of vocal-based attack, creating destructive harmonics with her voice.



Cassandra the Dust Eater vs. Cassandra the Enduring.

While I'm not entirely sure of the tense, the second kanji for Cassandra's name is 'eating', not 'eater'. Also has the sense of getting a bite on the hook if fishing. But why dirt? Is it fishing with dirt, or the sense that you thought you got a bite but pulled up only dirt (or a rubber boot in the more stereotypical American sense)?

Could be a two-fold meaning? "Eating dirt" as the phrase for defeat (if the colloquialism transfers between languages), while at the same time fishing and pulling up nothing? That is, every time you think you've got her (ie: got a bite to catch the fish) you pull up nothing but dirt?

Alternatively, looking at it with her as the subject rather than the object:

Given the supposed alternate description, "the one who have to/have already endured everything in life. It's also mean she has a really hard life.", one could also use that stereotypical 'fishing up a rubber boot' kind of meaning to indicate that no matter what she tries, she gets nothing but dirt. That would be more "dirt fisher" than "dirt eater". That would certainly indicate that "the Enduring" is a more apt term than "the Dust Eater".

I'm still inclined to think that the secondary near-meaning is intentional, though.

Further thoughts are more speculation, and I'll put them in the ch. 116 thread. (Additional speculation here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...40#post3682740 )

Last edited by Kinematics; 2011-07-13 at 15:36.
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Old 2011-08-10, 14:04   Link #9
Gooral
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Translation of the axes of the graphs from Databook:

Spoiler for graph 1 - attack power and speed of techniques:


Spoiler for graph 2 - youki release needed to use a technique:
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Old 2011-08-10, 14:56   Link #10
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Oh man we really need someone to completely translate those Gooral. I always wondered what they where... since they seemed important in the databooks.

I mean not only does it appear that Clare can't yoki prediction while using QS it also seems to have Galatea using Yoki prediction too (since she's on the same line as Teresa and Clare). I'm rather confused at the moment (and also rather sick right now so my brain isn't working very good atm). Also why is Clare posted twice at the extreme 80-100% yoki range on power required for an attack chart one, is one QS and the other limb awakening?... seems to be a plus sign though... hmm... more questions...

I'd also like to know what it says about Teresa on the upper chart, since it's odd she'd be listed as strong and slower since she match Irene's QS. So many possibilities of what that could mean... and implications from such meanings.

Reminder to everyone... this isn't a discussion thread I was just stating something I wanted Clarifying on since Gooral only posted how the chart works and not the translations of each thing on the chart. Most are easy to guess but some I want clarification on before I begin to speculate on it's meaning any further... in discussions on the chapter threads... not here
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Old 2011-08-10, 17:02   Link #11
Kinematics
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus
I'd also like to know what it says about Teresa on the upper chart, since it's odd she'd be listed as strong and slower since she match Irene's QS. So many possibilities of what that could mean... and implications from such meanings.
I believe you're mistaking Sophia for Teresa on the top chart. I don't believe Teresa is shown on the top chart at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus
Also why is Clare posted twice at the extreme 80-100% yoki range on power required for an attack chart one, is one QS and the other limb awakening?... seems to be a plus sign though... hmm... more questions...
The lower one should be for the Quick Sword, and the upper one for the combined Quick Sword + yoki perception. The kanji on the second half of the upper entry is the same as the one with Galatea/Clare/Teresa at the low yoki range.
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Old 2011-08-10, 17:35   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Translation of the axes of the graphs from Databook:

Spoiler for graph 1 - attack power and speed of techniques:
From top to bottom:
Irene - QS
Clare - QS + Youki Prediction
Miria - Mirage
Flora - Wind Cutter
Noel - Speed Enhanced Sword Technique
Ophelia - Rippling Sword
Clare - QS
Helen - Limb Extension
Sophia - Strength Focused Sword Technique
Udine - Strength Focused Sword Technique
Jean - Drill Sword

One of the attendum that explain the graph says: The picture of the warriors are placed according to the overall power of their techniques under the average youki release conditions for each of their respective technique. (in text box above the black arrow on top that was cut off)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Spoiler for graph 2 - youki release needed to use a technique:
Spirit Power = Youki

X Axis Left to Right, Percent Release.

From top to Bottom ( Will use Left and Right as Well)
Galatea - Youki Synchronization (Left)
Clare - QS + Youki Prediction (Right)
Raphella and Priscilla - Youki Cloak (Left)
Miria - Mirage (Right)
Irene - QS (Right)
Denev - Super Fast Regeneration (Right)
Clare - QS (Right)
Helen - Limb Extension (Right)
Galatea, Teresa, Clare - Youki Prediction (Left)
Jean - Drill Sword (Right)
Opheilia - Rippling Sword (Right)
Flora - Wind Cutter (Left)
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Old 2011-08-10, 19:21   Link #13
Ryus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinematics View Post
I believe you're mistaking Sophia for Teresa on the top chart. I don't believe Teresa is shown on the top chart at all.

The lower one should be for the Quick Sword, and the upper one for the combined Quick Sword + yoki perception. The kanji on the second half of the upper entry is the same as the one with Galatea/Clare/Teresa at the low yoki range.
Something was nagging at me when I posted that but I couldn't figure it out... now I know why my cold really was making me delirious... mistaking Sophia for Teresa is such a noob mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
From top to bottom:
Irene - QS
Clare - QS + Youki Prediction
Miria - Mirage
Flora - Wind Cutter
Noel - Speed Enhanced Sword Technique
Ophelia - Rippling Sword
Clare - QS
Helen - Limb Extension
Sophia - Strength Focused Sword Technique
Udine - Strength Focused Sword Technique
Jean - Drill Sword

One of the attendum that explain the graph says: The picture of the warriors are placed according to the overall power of their techniques under the average youki release conditions for each of their respective technique. (in text box above the black arrow on top that was cut off)



Spirit Power = Youki

X Axis Left to Right, Percent Release.

From top to Bottom ( Will use Left and Right as Well)
Galatea - Youki Synchronization (Left)
Clare - QS + Youki Prediction (Right)
Raphella and Priscilla - Youki Cloak (Left)
Miria - Mirage (Right)
Irene - QS (Right)
Denev - Super Fast Regeneration (Right)
Clare - QS (Right)
Helen - Limb Extension (Right)
Galatea, Teresa, Clare - Youki Prediction (Left)
Jean - Drill Sword (Right)
Opheilia - Rippling Sword (Right)
Flora - Wind Cutter (Left)
Hmm... I find it odd that Clare using QS with yoki prediction at 70% and greater yet she can't use QS by itself until about 72%. Wonder what the reasoning behind that is. Maybe it has something to do with her yoki only being in her arm when she does it. Oh, well a discussion for another thread and another time either way.

As to Galatea being able to yoki predict too... well I have a few I told you so's to say . But not on this thread

Thanks for the more complete translations SagaraSouske and Kinematics and thank you Gooral for posting this in the first place.
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Old 2011-08-10, 19:54   Link #14
SagaraSouske
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
Hmm... I find it odd that Clare using QS with yoki prediction at 70% and greater yet she can't use QS by itself until about 72%. Wonder what the reasoning behind that is. Maybe it has something to do with her yoki only being in her arm when she does it. Oh, well a discussion for another thread and another time either way.

As to Galatea being able to yoki predict too... well I have a few I told you so's to say . But not on this thread

Thanks for the more complete translations SagaraSouske and Kinematics and thank you Gooral for posting this in the first place.
Clare's QS was just after she received Irene's arm. So she hasn't really fully mastered it. Clare added youki prediction to her QS in Witch's Maw and since then, whenever she uses QS, it's really QS Ver 2 (with Youki Prediction).

All three have the skill, but Teresa and Clare operate it differently then Galatea. Galatea elevate it to manipulation as suppose to Teresa and Clare use to predict opp attacks and preemp them.
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Old 2011-08-10, 22:52   Link #15
Ryus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
Clare's QS was just after she received Irene's arm. So she hasn't really fully mastered it. Clare added youki prediction to her QS in Witch's Maw and since then, whenever she uses QS, it's really QS Ver 2 (with Youki Prediction).
My brain must really be fried at the moment. Damn cold... Though I'm still kinda wondering why the 2% increase in range and 1% over Irene herself. Adding prediction to it shouldn't have made QS easier to achieve, at less power output wise. I find it odd, maybe it has something to do with going over her limit a few times since merging with the arm. The skill seems unrelated to ease of activating the ability and more so since she surpassed Irene's ability to do so. After all Clare should have been listed with that power 3 times, once with her left hand, once with Irene's hand without yoki prediction and once with.

Argh... too tired and sick to think clearly. Save this discussion for another thread and time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
All three have the skill, but Teresa and Clare operate it differently then Galatea. Galatea elevate it to manipulation as suppose to Teresa and Clare use to predict opp attacks and preemp them.
Anyways, my argument was pretty much just that, note that I didn't say preempt but predict. All three can yoki predict but not preempt the others said I was wrong and only Teresa and Clare could. I said Riful flat out explained that that Galatea could read yoki down to it's most minute detail and was able see what was going to happen as a result of the yoki flow and then apply yoki manipulation to get it to move in a more advantageous way. Hence why she could manipulate something to miss her in combat constantly, if she just manipulated opponents without knowing what they where about to do she'd end up in a world of hurt. I added Galatea sensing both Miata and Agatha about to hit her at the same time and realizing she could only block one of them as evidence of her being able to sense and predict incoming attacks.

In any case I posted a speculation that yoki manipulation and yoki preemption stemmed from the same basic skill... yoki prediction. So I do have a few I told you so to go around.... if I could only remember to whom... damn cold.
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Old 2011-10-27, 05:35   Link #16
Gooral
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Someone at MH has translated some databook pages. If you don't know what MH stands for you can PM me, otherwise go there and read it (if you're interested of course).

Edit:
Another couple of pages have been translated. It turns out Clarice isn't 1/4 youma, she just wasn't completely adapted.
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Old 2011-10-27, 07:38   Link #17
Ryus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Someone at MH has translated some databook pages. If you don't know what MH stands for you can PM me, otherwise go there and read it (if you're interested of course).

Edit:
Another couple of pages have been translated. It turns out Clarice isn't 1/4 youma, she just wasn't completely adapted.
Thanks for the info... but as to Clarice(Claris in the translation at MH ) I think most of us already believed she wasn't made from Irenes flesh or any of the crazier theories about her.... still nice to have proof that shes just incomplete (as speculted by other characters in the manga) I wonder if that means she'll ever go full blonde for more then 3 panels if she ever partially awakens or something ... (Shieky commence Clarice must never go blonde raging and I'll take the opposing side)

Other oddly debated facts where cleared up, like Galatea can yoki read as well as Teresa and Clare but she just doesnt the then counter the attack (makes me wonder if the prediction part was more of a sword techinque add on to the ability, wont speculate further though, not the time and place).. and both Raphaela and Priscilla where listed as "masters" of yoki suppression even though the kenji (think I spelled that right) on there data cards was different.

The translation there needs a lot of fixing... it's clear the translator didnt know the terms of the series. It was so funny reading "evil force" aka yoki, "ghost" aka yoma, "special spine sword" aka muscular strength like Sophia or Undine, or all the slightly misspelled names like Milia for Miria or Denevu for Deneve... yes the transations where more literal but still I couldnt help but laugh in places.
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Old 2011-10-27, 07:56   Link #18
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Yes, it is kind of strange how a few things, after all this time, are now suddenly cleared up -- the truth on Clarice wasn't a shock (at least for me), but as Ryus said, at least we know for sure; thinking she had a 1/4 flesh felt like a common idea to me and, considering we don't know how far the similiarities between Clarice and Claire were supposed to be (whether as far as intertwined or just having similar names), it was a totally plausible one.

But yes, coupled with how many times characters said she was "mistake" etc, as well as that temporary blonde transformation, it figures it doesn't stretch farther then that -- unlike Claire (who is unique for all the right reasons), Clarice is unique for all the wrong reasons and is really more akin to Raki then Claire or anyone else -- just an ordinary human with some mild superhuman attributes, rather then a true hybrid.

I never thought of it like this but, the fact she has brown hair but still possesses the silver eyes, can be taken as a metaphor that she's only "halfway". It takes everything she has to complete the jump, but then she regresses back to her normal state.

That doesn't mean though that something can come up to make her special again, preferably for the right reasons (and considering she's, physically, perhaps the most human warrior of them all, that's still open); would love to see her again in the story soon....And no, I don't mind if she becomes blonde ()....just so long as it's not permanent .
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Old 2011-10-27, 09:28   Link #19
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@Ryus
As for Galatea, from what I understood she can't use that ability in combat but remotely only which contrasts with Clare's ability. So she can tell for example emotions of someone by reading their flow but can't predict their movements. Otherwise I don't see how she could be hit by Duff. She probably could develop this technique but decided to stick with manipulation or because of being trained as an eye it was hard for her to focus to such extent on objects not far away from her and only that object ignoring all the "noise" around her. Using an analogy, Clare is a microscope and Galatea is a telescope. I'm not saying that Galatea can't read someone close, I'm saying she can't read in a combat situation and apply that knowledge because of her different upbringing and developing certain "reflexes" characteristic to an eye. Just a speculation.

Whether I'm close or not, the fact is there is a clear distinction between the two in the synopsis of this technique suggesting that there are two versions, Galatea's and Teresa's/Clare's.

"Ability to finely read the flow of youki in the body. #3 Galatea who has rich experience and superior analytical ability can detect the internal activity of people from a remote location. #47 Clare can read the rival's movement from the flow of youki and then avoid being attacked."

BTW, do you think that the order on a chart is random? Because it looks like Teresa can use her ability while having released her youki the most. And in the synopsis of the technique the order they're using is rank (so #1, #3, #47 not #1,#47,#3). We know that Clare had to suppress her own youki in order to use this ability to the fullest after all.
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Old 2011-11-15, 13:32   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepy Speculator View Post
(...) she also seems to not think that her 'mama' would get pulped by Agatha saying 'don't run away mama' (yes i know she's an unstable little kid, but she don't seem to think that mama would actualy get killed, to the extent that she actually seems confused when Clarice does run) (...)
Correction, Miata said "Run away... Don't die, mama". Both s****py and g****t admitted that and 10**** wrote he's not sure and made second version of page 16 where Miata says "run away". At least I think it's been decided that's correct translation. Maybe someone could clear this once and for all.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=405

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10****
I thought about this but then Clarice's "I'm sorry, I can't do this" reaction didn't make sense to me anymore. I would have expected some guilt filled "thank you" or "I won't forget this" or whatever. She was already running when Miata said that stuff anyways, Miata's outstretchted hand looks more like a "stay here" gesture to me just like her post-"I can't do this"-face looks more disappointed to me... And yeah, no "die" kanji... plus I've actually seen typos in raws before... And ”逃げてしないで”gives me around 10000 results on Google. "Natural" enough in my humble opinion.
Damn Japanese with its endless similar sounding words, damn Yagi with his ambiguous facial expressions and dramatization...
Well, replace page at your own judgement. ;>_> 
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