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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 04
10: Amazing... 33 37.50%
9 out of 10: Excellent... 23 26.14%
8 out of 10: Very Good... 17 19.32%
7 out of 10: Good... 10 11.36%
6 out of 10: Average... 1 1.14%
5 out of 10: Below Average... 4 4.55%
4 out of 10: Poor... 0 0%
3 out of 10: Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10: Very Bad... 0 0%
1 out of 10: Torturous... 0 0%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-11-16, 11:06   Link #81
hai_san
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Great 4 ep, poor Loni...

Banagher had it really hard. I hope that we can get a happy end but i am not very optimistic for it...
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Old 2011-11-16, 11:51   Link #82
Revolutionist
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Originally Posted by RES-01 Perses Gundam View Post
From your point of view, yes. From mine, no. There is no said aggressor or what not in war.

And that's not even Char, he's a "Char". So maybe Char would have chosen some other way to fight the federation. Maybe he wouldn't even have bothered with the box, knowing so well that a box won't matter to a bunch of feddies even if all the space colonies rebel.
Just because you have a point of view doesn't mean you aren't wrong. Your views are subjective and don't reflect reality.

There's always an aggressor in war, or any sort of violent behavior/action for that matter.
I don't mean to be condescending, but you should really look at what aggression is.
Spoiler for .:


I cannot understand how some of you can sit there and say with the straight face that Zeon was not the aggressor, or that they were justified.

They killed BILLIONS of people, and the show itself makes it a point of comparing them to the nazis ffs.

Germany attacked Poland and France, and then Russia. Japan Attacked China and the US.Therefore they are the aggressors. That's not opinion, that's fact. Zeon is the aggressor in the UC and they are the bad guys, regardless of how side material tries to make them sympathetic.

That's not my point of view, that's a fact.

I can understand why Zeon is so popular. They have all the cool stuff, the same way Germany had all the cool stuff in WWII.They had the best equipment, their stuff just looked good. I get that. But we have to be objective when we talk about things other than their equipment.
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Old 2011-11-16, 13:30   Link #83
John117xCortana
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I just finished watching the ep. Right now I'm feeling...well lots of emotions right now. But the one thing that I'm feeling most is sadness. Loni has felt nothing but hatred since her parents were killed. That and combined with the Zeon ideology indoctrinated into her from a young age....well this quote best describes it.

"I think, when one has been angry for a very long time, one gets used to it. And it becomes comfortable like...like old leather. And finally... it becomes so familiar that one can't remember feeling any other way."- Jean-Luc Picard
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Old 2011-11-16, 16:17   Link #84
Helius
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Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
the pilot is Unknown.

People want it to be Kou Uraki though, since he was stationed at the torrington base.

No official name has been given though
I think he was stationed at Torrington before Operation Stardust. Didn't he get transferred to an American base afterwards, where Nina was? If I'm not mistaken Torrington then became a base for the Titans. Maybe somebody could clarify that?
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Old 2011-11-16, 16:38   Link #85
Znozzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
Just because you have a point of view doesn't mean you aren't wrong. Your views are subjective and don't reflect reality.

There's always an aggressor in war, or any sort of violent behavior/action for that matter.
I don't mean to be condescending, but you should really look at what aggression is.
Spoiler for ….:


I cannot understand how some of you can sit there and say with the straight face that Zeon was not the aggressor, or that they were justified.

They killed BILLIONS of people, and the show itself makes it a point of comparing them to the nazis ffs.

Germany attacked Poland and France, and then Russia. Japan Attacked China and the US.Therefore they are the aggressors. That's not opinion, that's fact. Zeon is the aggressor in the UC and they are the bad guys, regardless of how side material tries to make them sympathetic.

That's not my point of view, that's a fact.

I can understand why Zeon is so popular. They have all the cool stuff, the same way Germany had all the cool stuff in WWII.They had the best equipment, their stuff just looked good. I get that. But we have to be objective when we talk about things other than their equipment.
Noone has said the colony drops and colony Gassing Zeon did was justified.

Most Zeon soldiers are soldiers and not maniacs who wants to drop colonies which Zinnerman also mentioned this episode.

And once again, regarding this discussion, i don't belive anyone has said anything about zeon being better than the federation, only that the federation is bad aswell, look at it:

EF = Corrupt leadership hence corrupt politics, fucking colonies over for decades

Zeon = Bunch of angry spacenoids, with insane leaders

None of them are good.

What your doing is basically saying that everyone should hate americans, because the US Govenrment decided to nuke japan during WW2.

it's not the USA's populations fault, or its soldiers, it's the leadership.

Or that everyone should hate Germans, because of ww2

of course, then you have nutjobs on both sides, like the Delaz fleet and gato, the titans and so on
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Old 2011-11-16, 16:53   Link #86
Haak
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"Banagher...It's sad isn't it?"

Oh God, I nearly cried. I don't know how the hell I'm going to be able to go to sleep now...
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Old 2011-11-16, 17:52   Link #87
DV04
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Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
of course, then you have nutjobs on both sides, like the Delaz fleet and gato, the titans and so on
Hmm, I haven't seen 0083 in a wihle, but I don't recall the members of the Delaz Fleet as nutjobs. They were just a group of bitter Zeon soldiers that won't accept defeat. As for Gato, I saw him more of a prideful soldier than someone that is crazy. A lot of people criticize him and his comrades when they did that suicide run against the Federation's fleet, but I can understand why they did it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
"Banagher...It's sad isn't it?"

Oh God, I nearly cried. I don't know how the hell I'm going to be able to go to sleep now...
Yeah, that piece was well done and executed. The song in the background was nicely played too. I never read the novel and I was hoping she'll live, but damn...
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Old 2011-11-16, 18:36   Link #88
Znozzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DV04 View Post
Hmm, I haven't seen 0083 in a wihle, but I don't recall the members of the Delaz Fleet as nutjobs. They were just a group of bitter Zeon soldiers that won't accept defeat. As for Gato, I saw him more of a prideful soldier than someone that is crazy. A lot of people criticize him and his comrades when they did that suicide run against the Federation's fleet, but I can understand why they did it.



Yeah, that piece was well done and executed. The song in the background was nicely played too. I never read the novel and I was hoping she'll live, but damn...
I saw the Delaz fleet as nutjobs because they supported the Zabis, i should've mentioned that

i do like Gato, for his " Warriors pride "

anyone know if the song that played when Banagher opened his cockpit is in the second OST*?
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Old 2011-11-16, 21:11   Link #89
teh_nubkilr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
I saw the Delaz fleet as nutjobs because they supported the Zabis, i should've mentioned that

i do like Gato, for his " Warriors pride "

anyone know if the song that played when Banagher opened his cockpit is in the second OST*?
That song is called Mobile Armour.
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Old 2011-11-17, 00:05   Link #90
John117xCortana
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Did Loni block her own shot so that Banagher and Riddhe could kill her ?
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Old 2011-11-17, 00:33   Link #91
casval cehack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John117xCortana View Post
Did Loni block her own shot so that Banagher and Riddhe could kill her ?
I've also asked that question a page ago. After rewatching it, Loni most likely blocked the mega particle shot of the Shamblo (fired under pyscommu feedback/father influence even when standing down) and left her fate to Banagher (whose rushing Unicorn had no indication of capturing the reflector bits). Poor Loni indeed.
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Old 2011-11-17, 01:03   Link #92
Revolutionist
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Originally Posted by Znozzy View Post
Noone has said the colony drops and colony Gassing Zeon did was justified.

Most Zeon soldiers are soldiers and not maniacs who wants to drop colonies which Zinnerman also mentioned this episode.

And once again, regarding this discussion, i don't belive anyone has said anything about zeon being better than the federation, only that the federation is bad aswell, look at it:

EF = Corrupt leadership hence corrupt politics, fucking colonies over for decades

Zeon = Bunch of angry spacenoids, with insane leaders


None of them are good.

What your doing is basically saying that everyone should hate americans, because the US Govenrment decided to nuke japan during WW2.

it's not the USA's populations fault, or its soldiers, it's the leadership.

Or that everyone should hate Germans, because of ww2

of course, then you have nutjobs on both sides, like the Delaz fleet and gato, the titans and so on
This is what I'm talking about.

How can you even say the Federation was "fucking over the colonies" when all it did was place economic sanctions on Side 3, not the rest of the colonies.

That doesn't even come close to killing billions of people because you think you are a superior race of human. That's not called being angry or insane, that's called evil.

Also, the fact that the fighting didn't end for decades after the war officially ended just shows that a lot of those soldiers didn't just fight because they had to. They WANTED to fight.
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Old 2011-11-17, 01:45   Link #93
kk2extreme
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Do we really need a oversized MA in every gundam series?
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Old 2011-11-17, 03:48   Link #94
whispo
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Originally Posted by kk2extreme View Post
Do we really need a oversized MA in every gundam series?
Yes, otherwise it aint Gundam!
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Old 2011-11-17, 04:46   Link #95
Znozzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
This is what I'm talking about.

How can you even say the Federation was "fucking over the colonies" when all it did was place economic sanctions on Side 3, not the rest of the colonies.

That doesn't even come close to killing billions of people because you think you are a superior race of human. That's not called being angry or insane, that's called evil.

Also, the fact that the fighting didn't end for decades after the war officially ended just shows that a lot of those soldiers didn't just fight because they had to. They WANTED to fight.
compare the Zeon uprising fleets to the fleet Zeon had during the OYW.

Source: taken from Mechatalk and Entertainment bible 39

at the start of the OYW:

PRINCIPALITY OF ZEON
Fighting vessel x 179
(battleship x 8, heavy cruiser x 42, light cruiser x 108, other x 21)
Special service vessel x 85
(factory carriers, landing ships, assault boats, probe ships, training ships, etc)
Miscellaneous vessel x 240
(supply ships, tug boats, self-propelled docks, tug ships, etc)
Specially equipped vessel x 110
(torpedo boats, cruisers, beam gunships, etc)

Remaining personnel after the OYW:

PRINCIPALITY OF ZEON
Personnel: 3 million
Battleships and cruisers: 46 (many more unaccounted for)
Mobile suits: Roughly 2,000 (about 800 in production)
Fighters: 6,000 (1,200 in production)

Delaz uprising was estimated to have around 26~ ships total at its disposal and around 100~ Mobile suits (including resupply ones if i recall correct)

Char's uprising (CCA) had around the same.

The Sleeves has around the same number of mobile suits as the delaz fleet if i recall, around 100-120~

the uprising are still small scale compared to the OYW.

The EF did alot more to the colonies except putting sanctions on Side 3 throughout the UC timeline, how can you have missed that?

and once again, i am not defending what the Zabi's Zeon did.

what i'm saying is that you are calling every single member of Zeon insane, when it was the leadership who are responsible for the gassing and colony drops.

Soldiers carry out orders, that goes in every war, it doesn't make it their fault their leaders are once again, insane
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Old 2011-11-17, 05:53   Link #96
RES-01 Perses Gundam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
Just because you have a point of view doesn't mean you aren't wrong. Your views are subjective and don't reflect reality.

There's always an aggressor in war, or any sort of violent behavior/action for that matter.
I don't mean to be condescending, but you should really look at what aggression is.
Spoiler for .:


I cannot understand how some of you can sit there and say with the straight face that Zeon was not the aggressor, or that they were justified.

They killed BILLIONS of people, and the show itself makes it a point of comparing them to the nazis ffs.

Germany attacked Poland and France, and then Russia. Japan Attacked China and the US.Therefore they are the aggressors. That's not opinion, that's fact. Zeon is the aggressor in the UC and they are the bad guys, regardless of how side material tries to make them sympathetic.

That's not my point of view, that's a fact.

I can understand why Zeon is so popular. They have all the cool stuff, the same way Germany had all the cool stuff in WWII.They had the best equipment, their stuff just looked good. I get that. But we have to be objective when we talk about things other than their equipment.
The Allied powers also killed millions of Germans and Japanese in WWII, yet nobody blames them because they were the victors, the "good guys". Their actions are justified because it was for the greater good. It's ridiculous to deem one an aggressor in war, especially using a dictionary! Aggression or not, people of Zeon were driven by desire for freedom, it's not as if they fight just because they want to kill. Your way of overgeneralising them is just, IMO, unacceptable.

And when did I ever say I love Zeon because they are cool? I don't like the design of their suits, neither do I follow Char's ideals or that of his dad's, and I don't always condone the actions of Zeon. To me, people of Zeon are to be respected, those willing to lay down their lives for an impossible dream.
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Old 2011-11-17, 11:06   Link #97
John117xCortana
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I don't hold much hostility to Riddhe for killing Loni. He was just doing his job.
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Old 2011-11-17, 12:43   Link #98
Znozzy
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Apparently, the name of the Byalant Kai/Custom is Diez Robin.
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Old 2011-11-17, 12:51   Link #99
KrimzonStriker
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Quote:
This is what I'm talking about.

How can you even say the Federation was "fucking over the colonies" when all it did was place economic sanctions on Side 3, not the rest of the colonies.

That doesn't even come close to killing billions of people because you think you are a superior race of human. That's not called being angry or insane, that's called evil.

Also, the fact that the fighting didn't end for decades after the war officially ended just shows that a lot of those soldiers didn't just fight because they had to. They WANTED to fight.
We've had like THIS ENTIRE SERIES to analyze the wrongs of the Federation AND Zeon. This OVA series has gone very in depth about the abuse of power and marginalization dating back to the very origins behind space colonization in the first place. It was why a refugee station like SweetWater opened up its doors to Char if you want an older example.

Hello, no one is innocent of that, not anymore. TITANS anyone?? You know, the EARTH FEDERATION group?

Ridiculous, you only have to look at people like Zimmerman and Loni to know a great deal of them are simply OBLIGATED to fight, that's what being a soldier is essentially.



Quote:
Originally Posted by John117xCortana View Post
I don't hold much hostility to Riddhe for killing Loni. He was just doing his job.
Too many people are just 'doing their job' though which is why stuff like this never ends. I'm disappointed in Riddhe, he could clearly see the cycle of hatred he was caught up in as well as the others, and yet when the chips came down he gave into despair and refused to bet on the 'possibility'
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Old 2011-11-17, 14:17   Link #100
Revolutionist
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Loni, really? Out of all the people in this episode you choose to give Loni as an example?
Sorry but that's a horrible example. She was screaming Sieg Zeon as she rampaged through a city with her MA, indescriminately killing civilians (remember the mother and her baby + and all the people taking refuge in the stadium?). A better example could've been Kirks, who at least limited his attacks to military targets and tried to avoid civilians.
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