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Old 2011-11-18, 02:58   Link #2401
zero7090
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Hmm... in the age where people invented mecha and droid to fight and kill yet they couldnt made one that can press pen ball.... Sound legit and totally real.
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Old 2011-11-18, 03:00   Link #2402
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
Second everyone treated him badly, why should he care?
Yeah that's totally a valid reason for letting people die.

I used to think that when I was twelve and all the kids in class always pick on me.

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Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
Why should he care anyway? First of all their battle doesn't concern him initially, unless we were right on the WMG that Shu IS involved way before.
Because, someone just fired an orbit laser cannon. Whats stopping them from firing at some 'unregistered civilian population'?

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Originally Posted by zero7090 View Post
Hmm... in the age where people invented mecha and droid to fight and kill yet they couldnt made one that can press pen ball.... Sound legit and totally real.
Yeah, good luck getting one in the middle of a battlefield.
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Old 2011-11-18, 03:01   Link #2403
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Why should he care anyway? First of all their battle doesn't concern him initially, unless we were right on the WMG that Shu IS involved way before.
Shu couldn't have been involved initially, even with his mother working with GHQ. Well, I doubt it. GC has managed the wool to be pulled before. (as a side note, Episode 5 almost sunk my ship. Almost.)

I think its just consequence and a series of events that's making him that way. Let's not forget he has issues also understanding people, a major personality quirk for him. Hindsight, he's come a long ways from that one cute kiddo in episode 1. But he isn't no where near to be taken in as a badass. Yet.
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Old 2011-11-18, 03:10   Link #2404
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Like I've said, I didn't even have that much expectation out of him.

Besides you're the one that brought up soldiers
My point in bringing up soldiers is that just because you belong to a tightly ran military organization doesn't mean you shouldn't question authority if you feel morally compelled to.


Quote:

Exactly what sort of organization do you think he had joined?

This is a paramilitary rebel faction, not a debate club.
Given the high stakes at play here, I would argue that every major decision should be debated, or at least openly discussed. I'm glad that Shu is willing to offer up a contrary perspective.
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Old 2011-11-18, 03:12   Link #2405
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I'm not going to dump all over this show, because I do find it sort of enjoyable and I don't discount the importance of a series looking as great as this one does. But it's definitely held back by a lack of anything really original. If I was to use one word to describe the situations and characters, it would be "generic". It's like the beer that showed up in supermarkets in the 90's that just said "BEER" in black letters on an otherwise blank white can.

The result of all that is that I feel as if I'm watching a rerun, even when I'm watching a new episode. The show always does what you expect it to do and goes where you expect it to go. There's a comfortable familiarity to that, especially when it's competently executed, as this series is. But it also makes it impossible for me to feel anything for the characters or care too deeply about what happens to them. We don't really get any reason to feel or care, because the characters just react emotionally to whatever's happening - we never get any real background on who they are or how they got that way.

Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2011-11-18 at 03:22.
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Old 2011-11-18, 03:18   Link #2406
Chaos2Frozen
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My point in bringing up soldiers is that just because you belong to a tightly ran military organization doesn't mean you shouldn't question authority if you feel morally compelled to.
Fair enough, but it's a case by case situation and I personally don't think this incident warrants it.

They're not going to kill children, they're going on a dangerous mission to destroy a dangerous weapon.

If you say it's too dangerous, I would point out that every mission is dangerous, if it was easy they would have already won.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Given the high stakes at play here, I would argue that every major decision should be debated, or at least openly discussed. I'm glad that Shu is willing to offer up a contrary perspective.
But like what thundrakkon said, the problem is he didn't offer another solution, he just said 'No, We can't.' and that's it.

No even worse, he wanted to walk away in the middle of all this.
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Old 2011-11-18, 03:19   Link #2407
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I'm not going to dump all over this show, because I do find it sort of enjoyable and I don't discount the importance of a series looking as great as he does. But it's definitely held back by a lack of anything really original. If I was to use one word to describe the situations and characters, it would be "generic". It's like the beer that showed up in supermarkets in the 90's that just said "BEER" in black letters on an otherwise blank white can.

The result of all that is that I feel as if I'm watching a rerun, even when I'm watching a new episode. The show always does what you expect it to do and goes where you expect it to go. There's a comfortable familiarity to that, especially when it's competently executed, as this series is. But it also makes it impossible for me to feel anything for the characters or care too deeply about what happens to them. We don't really get any reason to feel or care, because the characters just react emotionally to whatever's happening - we never get any real background on who they are or how they got that way.
That's a good way of putting it. In a way Guilty Crown is popcorn entertainment in the form of comfort food (Hollywood Blockbuster movie style, Japanified). I enjoy it every week, but it isn't amazing or anything or supposed to be intellectually stimulating, but the visuals and audio botch it up for me compared to your average popcorn entertainment making it somewhat special in comparison.
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Old 2011-11-18, 03:26   Link #2408
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Fair enough, but it's a case by case situation and I personally don't think this incident warrants it.

They're not going to kill children, they're going on a dangerous mission to destroy a dangerous weapon.

If you say it's too dangerous, I would point out that every mission is dangerous, if it was easy they would have already won.
It's not that it was "dangerous", in a general sense. It's that Gai was expecting Funeral Parlor to suffer a high casualty count, one out of every three soldiers.

I don't expect everybody (and certainly not a young "fresh recruit" like Shu who initially refused to join Funeral Parlor back in Episode 2) to be entirely comfortable with such figures, and to not say anything about them.


Quote:
But like what thundrakkon said, the problem is he didn't offer another solution, he just said 'No, We can't.' and that's it.
Well, Gai is the leader and clearly the brains of the operation. One could say that Shu was challenging Gai to come up with a better solution.

Unfortunately, a better solution simply wasn't there, and perhaps that was part of the reason why Shu eventually relented.
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Old 2011-11-18, 03:31   Link #2409
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Originally Posted by winhlp32 View Post
- The clown guy must hates his job or something. He justs lets the Funeral Parlor guys do whatever they want.
If you are referring to the end of the episode, he had to let Gai do what he wanted (destroy falling Leukocyte satellite), or else the city of Tokyo would be destroyed along with Segai possibly dying as well.

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Originally Posted by winhlp32 View Post
- Gai showed himself to be a weaker person, but after all the manipulating and knowing too much, one'd have to suspect if this is all a guise as well to gain sympathy from Shu.
Yeah, the whole scene is very suspicious. It is very likely another set-up by Gai, since he previously mentioned that the plan will still go on, meaning that he knew he would be able to convince Shu.

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Originally Posted by winhlp32 View Post
- As expected, Gai is leading a bunch of yes-men, people who'd smile because they can die for him, and it is blasphemy to question his actions.
He is a charismatic leader, who takes responsibility. It is more likely that Gai has convinced them to follow him than it is that they are yes-men. It is not that question his actions, but because they understand the situation. Do nothing and Japan is toast. I respect Shu for standing up, but he did not offer an alternative plan.

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Originally Posted by winhlp32 View Post
- Shu is a big jerk as well. But well...when you're 17 and overly horny, what can you do? I personally blame Oedipus complex...
He wants to go out with his mom? How is this related to Oedipus complex?

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Originally Posted by winhlp32 View Post
- Why did Gai had to pull the trigger on the little girl. Surely theres some way to save her. I think this is where Shu and his "not wanting anyone else to get hurt" policy would be beneficial in the future should this kind of scenario happen again.
There was nothing around to save her due to the devastation. She was badly injured, and dying painfully. He mercy killed her to relieve her of her pain. It is common in war movies.
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Old 2011-11-18, 05:30   Link #2410
felix
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Originally Posted by Znail View Post
So it isn't strange that Shu is socially awkward, reluctant to fight while brave when he actually ends up fighting as these things are not related.
It's not about fashion. Being socially awkward makes him a coward (sort of), so hence it's very out of character when he becomes brave. If he was brave he wouldn't be socially awkward. Of course the series paints social interaction as this comepletely different persona, which is kind of silly...

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
2. Gai has almost everybody fooled, and his confession was largely for show (though I do think that the cross necklace is an important keepsake for him in any event). Him and Segai are secretly allied with one another, and are playing both sides against each other in machiavellian fashion, with some sort of shared goal in mind. I'm somewhat suspicious here since Gai's meeting with Segai was remarkably cordial given that they're ostensibly on opposite sides of a major conflict.
I like this idea.

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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
The only saving grace is that Shu pays for his actions. Unlike most people, I think the punch (temporarily) knocked out all dislikability.
Yeah, pretty much.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Still, I do think that Episode 6 was a real step forward for Shu overall. He's still socially clumsy, admittedly, but at least he's starting to have some sort of real presence when he's on-screen.
I fear that in the process of turning him into a proper protagonist and removing his awkwardness they're making him really dumb and plot-carried.

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Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
Then stop watching please. It ruins the atmosphere...
Global Warming! Aaaa!!

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Quote:
but he thinks it's something that he could just walk away? What was he going to accomplish with that? And the main reason wasn't because of the death toll, it was because he doesn't want to take responsibility of that.
How do you know that?
He said it himself, pretty straight out.

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Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
Gai was going to meet some people when the thing was fired. I think GHQ wanted to get rid of all the pesky people's leaders in one fell swoop than just getting Gai.
Those some people were reinforcements. Aparently Gai has help from abroud, hence the tech advantage of funeral parlor.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Quote:
Because he said it himself.

"If someone dies because I screw up, wouldn't they die for nothing?"
That doesn't mean that he doesn't care about people dying in battle. It simply means he has the added concern of not wanting people to die in vain due to him screwing up.
For me... it's the same thing. The second is just a petty excuse of the first.

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Originally Posted by winhlp32 View Post
- Why did Gai had to pull the trigger on the little girl. Surely theres some way to save her. I think this is where Shu and his "not wanting anyone else to get hurt" policy would be beneficial in the future should this kind of scenario happen again.
Well yes and no. Shu was there listening to it and didn't complain one bit even though it was much more absurd then the "mission casualty forecast".

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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Yeah, good luck getting one in the middle of a battlefield.
Gai took it all the way to the central core, remember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I'm not going to dump all over this show, because I do find it sort of enjoyable and I don't discount the importance of a series looking as great as this one does. But it's definitely held back by a lack of anything really original. If I was to use one word to describe the situations and characters, it would be "generic". It's like the beer that showed up in supermarkets in the 90's that just said "BEER" in black letters on an otherwise blank white can.
"Original" is the wrong word there. More like "compelling".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
It's not that it was "dangerous", in a general sense. It's that Gai was expecting Funeral Parlor to suffer a high casualty count, one out of every three soldiers.
Yeah... how many died again? Hm.

So unlike Gai to screw the prediction up so badly.

(yes it was a stealthy deus ex machina, lets just forget about it)

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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
If you are referring to the end of the episode, he had to let Gai do what he wanted (destroy falling Leukocyte satellite), or else the city of Tokyo would be destroyed along with Segai possibly dying as well.
How exactly does Segai die? And that thing is only dangerous because of it's mass and contrary to what you might think it's not like a meteor or anything that picked up large amounts of velocity from slingshotting though space and impacts to earth with that kind of absurd velocity to cause a crater. At best this thing might destroy a city block.

Well I wouldn't put it past the show to use hollywood logic and make it sound like it would blow up the entire city or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
There was nothing around to save her due to the devastation. She was badly injured, and dying painfully. He mercy killed her to relieve her of her pain. It is common in war movies.
That sort of logic only applies when you have to go and leave the person behind with no hope of rescue. And even then, it's pretty dumb. As you said, god damn movie logic.

Even if he was injured if he's strong enough to jump on mechs surely he can carry a wounded girl on his shoulder or something. The fact she was still concious was good enough of a reason to try and save her.



With regard with all the meta-complaing. I'll just say this, being on some "good" side doesn't give you no license to troll or trashtalk other people.
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Old 2011-11-18, 05:30   Link #2411
magnuskn
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Originally Posted by winhlp32 View Post
- Daryl on the other hand seems to want to make out with his robots. Seriously, is there no normal people among the field agents in GHQ? The clown guy is a nympho, and this guy has anger management issues. I wonder how much the iPad he threw away costed.
They are a faction which goes around mass-executing people for the evulz. Given that, I am amazed how well-adjusted that aide dude seems, who is always hanging around ( the guy with the glasses and the green beret ). They are bound to have mostly psychopath killers on their team.

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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
The result of all that is that I feel as if I'm watching a rerun, even when I'm watching a new episode. The show always does what you expect it to do and goes where you expect it to go. There's a comfortable familiarity to that, especially when it's competently executed, as this series is. But it also makes it impossible for me to feel anything for the characters or care too deeply about what happens to them. We don't really get any reason to feel or care, because the characters just react emotionally to whatever's happening - we never get any real background on who they are or how they got that way.
Which could be because it pretty clearly is one of the main mysteries the show is trying to string out, with all the flashbacks and stuff. But, hey, please continue to dump on the show because you are feeling "seen that before" ennui.
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Old 2011-11-18, 05:39   Link #2412
djmaca
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Yeah that's totally a valid reason for letting people die. I used to think that when I was twelve and all the kids in class always pick on me.
Isn't that human nature? Or are you to tell me you will hypocritically help the person you hated the most. Say a terrorist who took a love one from you. Or people who make fun of you everyday? Just to show your a hero.

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Because, someone just fired an orbit laser cannon. Whats stopping them from firing at some 'unregistered civilian population'?
Why should they not? And why won't they get registered? An act of rebellion? Rebels are to be executed, no questions asked. If you believe that your rebelling is from a valid cause, then I cannot say anything else than "prepare to die".
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Old 2011-11-18, 06:19   Link #2413
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The recent discussions are really nowhere close to what we call constructive. In order to prevent any further and needless name calling and whatnot, I'm locking this thread for few hours, in order to clean things up and hopefully letting people chill out a bit.

That said, I'm afraid we will deal with such matters in a much harsher manner from now on.

EDIT: Alright, it has been 6 hours. Thread is now open.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2011-11-18 at 12:27.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:08   Link #2414
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Oh, finally. Anyway, i can't wait to see Arisa in the next episode and how Shu's class reaction after his arrest.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:19   Link #2415
Kaoru Chujo
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I think Kaiohsin has it when he says that Yoshino is just writing around whatever cool thing he wants to happen each week. The details of the story are just there to set up cool scenes. And I don't mind, since I find the scenes and the personalities cool.

I disagree as usual with the idea that these are "shallow" characters just because we aren't handed tons of info about their backstories, or a shallow story because it isn't fully fleshed out. And I feel the emotion without it having to be blared all over the place. Nor do I need artificial tension.

This is not a popcorn show at all. It would be a total failure as a popcorn show, obviously. I think the fact that it is noitaminA is something that has to be remembered. Whatever it is doing (and I'm still not sure, lol), it is not a conventional shounen or mecha show at all.

But much as I am enjoying the show, I still am not impressed with Yoshino Hiroyuki as a writer. Give me Okada Mari any time, lol. Yoshino did Mai-HiME and My-Otome, neither of which I liked. He was closely involved in Code Geass, which I didn't like. He did Sora no Woto, which failed its cast, for me. And he did Dance in the Vampire Bund, which I loved, but mainly for the things that were not Yoshino's department.

The two shows he did which I have no problem with were Macross F and Denpateki na Kanojo, which was good, especially the first episode, and especially for the work of the VAs.

The staff member here with whom I am happy is, Araki Tetsurou (Death Note).
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:22   Link #2416
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I worry when I look at that preview... I hope that "American-looking" guy isn't going to be uncomfortably stereotypical.

The new blond girl does intrige me though.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:23   Link #2417
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But much as I am enjoying the show, I still am not impressed with Yoshino Hiroyuki as a writer. Give me Okada Mari any time, lol.
I like Mari Okada, however, her idea of fanservice might make it worse. Also, it's very likely that Inori would only be visible to Shu. *cough*

Also, if that really happened, I'm reminded of a certain image posted earlier where they switched places.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:26   Link #2418
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Well if I were to choose between Canaan and this, I'd definitely go with Canaan (but I really liked Canaan so it's a no contest really).
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:33   Link #2419
Kaoru Chujo
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Well if I were to choose between Canaan and this, I'd definitely go with Canaan (but I really liked Canaan so it's a no contest really).
I watched Canaan and enjoyed it, but found it kind of disjointed. I guess I'm weird, but I find these characters easier to relate to. However, I think it's a good comparison to this show, since it also didn't seem to be aimed at a standard shounen audience.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:35   Link #2420
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For those that have issues with the official site version



American guy looks like a bro

And Arisa is not bad-looking at all.
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