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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 23 31.94%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 27 37.50%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 15.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 6.94%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 4.17%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 4.17%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-11-18, 12:18   Link #41
Utsuro no Hako
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* So this week's subway sign is "Truths born from lies" which has something to do with hula hoops (the circle of fate?). Then in the next scene, Masako tells Himari that truth can never be born from lies. I take the subway signs as more reliable than Masako.

* Is the kid who tells Himari about the Child Broiler one of Sanetoshi's rabbits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
That's unfair I think. Maybe his parents are as important as Himari. Kanba doesn't mind giving up his own life, just not his parents. Giving up one member of your family for another is not the correct way to go.
The thing is, Kan's parents aren't helpless. It's not like giving in to Tabuki would be an automatic death sentence for them -- they'd be in danger, but there's a good chance they'd survive. Himari, by contrast, was in immediate peril, and if not for Tabuki's change or heart, would've died because of Kanba's refusal. Kanba could've gone along with Tabuki to buy time, but he chose to let his sister die instead.
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Old 2011-11-18, 12:32   Link #42
YayPepsi
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Quote:
Kanba could've gone along with Tabuki to buy time, but he chose to let his sister die instead.
He didn't choose to let her die. He chose a different (albeit a lot more reckless) way to save her. There's quite a bit of difference between deciding to let someone die and deciding to try and save them in your own way. It wasn't very effective, but at the end of the day, his willingness to hang on to that pulley was what made Tabuki change his mind AND spared his parents at the same time.
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Old 2011-11-18, 13:05   Link #43
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
That's unfair I think. Maybe his parents are as important as Himari. Kanba doesn't mind giving up his own life, just not his parents. Giving up one member of your family for another is not the correct way to go.

I couldn't understand why people voted 1s, but after watching it I laughed. You guys are such tsunderes.
That's my point. His parents are as important to him as Himari, she is not on a higher pedestal for him, i.e. he loves Himari only as family. He may not be as incestuous as we were lead to think, it's just PoC's hotness that got him all confused. Therefore, I don't mind the "NTR".

That being said, I do believe it was wrong of him to put his innocent sister in immediate danger by refusing to reveal his terrorist (<- VERY IMPORTANT) parents' location. His parents have been on the run for years, they can clearly take care of themselves, and if they're as good parents as he seems to believe they are, they wouldn't have minded suffering the consequences for their actions to save their daughter. It is the parents' duty to protect their children, not the opposite.
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Old 2011-11-18, 13:10   Link #44
Kunagisa
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I don't like to consider this too one dimensional-ly; rather than seeing it as Kanba choosing parents over Himari, I feel that he just doesn't want to give up either his parents or Himari. I don't think you can belittle his sacrifice just because he didn't sell his parents out; he obviously value all his family members both above his own.

While I personally cheer for a Kanba x Himari end, I also fell in love with these siblings because of their deep family love. This episode reinforces that theme. The previous episode would've felt incredibly a lot less endearing if Kanba just sold out his parents on the spot. On the surface that might seem romantic, but Kanba would just be another siscon to me. A person who's blind to passion can be seen anywhere, I would like to think Kanba is above that. Love isn't always measured by a person to ignore all reasoning and betray others. That's a theme too highly overrated and idealized (obviously personal subjectivity here).

I guess I'm just a very family-centric person. I rarely even post in here, but I felt the past two episodes are especially strong just because how heartwarming (and heart-wrenching) they felt at the end. There really aren't that many series these days that show such strong bonding within the family (personally I'm quite jealous of them).
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Old 2011-11-18, 13:22   Link #45
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sides View Post
Awesome episode. The twist, that Himari was the one adopted was surprising. For some reason I always though either Shoma or Kanba was taken in by the Takakura family.
Here is the thing if Shoma did changed Himari's fate, he must have sacrificed something for it.
I thought the twist was pretty smooth, with the misdirection of it being one of the twins. I had a hunch that the family (and most of the world) was a warped construction of what was really supposed to happen if Momoka hadn't changed everything, but really it's just difficult to figure out what's what in this cast, heh.

I also like how much this changes the story, because it raises more questions and thoughts:

Why was Himari rescued? We know why Momoka did it for Tabuki and Yuri, but we have no reason for Sho doing it. Also, the methods are different. The apple is very suspicious, because it is tied to Sanetoshi. However Sanetoshi seems more interested in manipulating everyone but Sho. That strikes me as odd. Also, Sho and Himari lost those memories. Why didn't Tabuki and Yuri?

The parents being well and out of jail isn't surprising. How did Tabuki know this though? The pictures didn't show them in the previous episode, just the men in coats (who also makes an appearance in this episode). It's obvious that Kanba and the rest are being manipulated by Sanetoshi, but why? What was the real reason for the attack in the first place, and was Sanetoshi not expecting Momoka to interfere? Perhaps that is his goal: her restoration so she can be his special existence again and the full version of his original plan (the attacks) completed?

This ties into Natsume. How is she related to this? It's already a stretch that Mario is "possessed" by his grandfather, but why is Natsume being recruited by Sanetoshi? The family doesn't appear to have any connection outside of Sanetoshi showing up with the hat to "save" Mario.

Then there's also the matter of the hat(s). If the one Himari has is the Princess, why was she picked by it? Further, what is the other hat that Mario is using? It doesn't seem to do anything like Himari's hat does. Sanetoshi is aware of Himari's hat and seems to believe it is Momoka in some form, but yet he also is aware of the diary and doesn't appear to be fond of it.

Finally this makes me ponder the Survival Strategy sequences. The Princess seems to have some feelings for Kanba but it is difficult to know what they are. Shouma always seems to get kicked out right away. Yet here we find out that Himari and Shouma are fated. This crisscross is hard to understand.

Yuri isn't out of the picture yet, but I feel sorry for her. She seemed to desire more than a sham marriage, hoping for love to flourish despite the backwards steps (marriage before love), even though the initial reasons seemed misguided (Momoka). Tabuki is out of the picture (for now), which really makes him seem more shallow than I thought he would be. It seems he never cared about anything except for revenge, gave that up, and apparently everything else too.

This show never ceases to fascinate me.
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Old 2011-11-18, 13:24   Link #46
Kirarakim
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Kanba was willing to harm himself to save Himari but not reveal his parents location.

However there is a chance he really did not know where they were. It could be one of those situations where they meet up with Kanba when they can but don't disclose where they are hiding. Nevermind I think the subbed version disproves this.

Edit: I think I have an idea what is going on. Momoka changed the world right, Sanetoshi & Kiga are trying to get it back to how they think it should be. We can assume that the terrorist attack was also about "fixing" the world with all the changes Momoka made. But then Momoka changed it again and she disappeared and Kiga is again trying to "fix it".

Well what if in the pre-changed world the fated couples are Shouma/Himari, Kanba/Masako, Momoka/Tabuki (and as an extension Ringo/Tabuki)

However Momoka might be trying to change this knocking Shouma out of the survival strategy because she doesn't want him to connect with Himari. The Penguin Queen is also the one that in a sense had Shouma go after Ringo stopping Ringo/Tabuki, and you can say in a way she pushes Kanba/Himari. I would say Tabuki/Yuri are also part of this group.

There is also a possibility that there is 3rd date where Himari is part of Triple H as we see in the ending, but it's unclear what would bring this about.

Also a long time ago someone pointed out that Sanetoshi had a pic of the Takakura dad as part of an expedition where he couldn't have committed the terrorist attack. Well what if this was real and in a different fate he didn't commit the terrorist attacks.

I mean there are so many possibilities here, but if my theory is right I am not convinced that either Sanetoshi or Momoka are right here.
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Old 2011-11-18, 13:46   Link #47
mark1246
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Now that it Sub Version is out, Was expect to see it but left with more QUESTION

1. Like the new Ed theme they have but it the same animation as the other Ed theme but in yellow

2. Where the heck is this boiler room place, it not like you can just go to it and just drop off ur kids to it!!! LOL

Please explain please and thank you
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Old 2011-11-18, 13:47   Link #48
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there's five episodes left and Mario hasn't done a thing yet.
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Old 2011-11-18, 13:49   Link #49
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFarGone View Post
there's five episodes left and Mario hasn't done a thing yet.
I expect Mario will be more of a plot device in the end but I am sure he has a part to play.

Although I do find it funny that he isn't even in the opening. I think that is telling in itself.
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Old 2011-11-18, 13:51   Link #50
Used Can
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What if Himari wasn't adopted, but Kanba? I know he resembles Kenzan, but that may be red-herring.

Anyhow, gotta love this love polygon, or whatever. This now truly feels like an Ikuni work.

Now all we need is for Sanetoshi to start fucking everybody, and we're set.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:05   Link #51
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
While I personally cheer for a Kanba x Himari end, I also fell in love with these siblings because of their deep family love. This episode reinforces that theme. The previous episode would've felt incredibly a lot less endearing if Kanba just sold out his parents on the spot. On the surface that might seem romantic, but Kanba would just be another siscon to me. A person who's blind to passion can be seen anywhere, I would like to think Kanba is above that. Love isn't always measured by a person to ignore all reasoning and betray others. That's a theme too highly overrated and idealized (obviously personal subjectivity here).

I guess I'm just a very family-centric person. I rarely even post in here, but I felt the past two episodes are especially strong just because how heartwarming (and heart-wrenching) they felt at the end. There really aren't that many series these days that show such strong bonding within the family (personally I'm quite jealous of them).
That's where we fundamentally disagree. I don't see romantic love or friendship as being in any way cheaper than familial love, quite the contrary in fact. I don't believe you have the obligation to unconditionally love anybody you have blood ties with. Persons blinded by blood ties are about as common as persons blinded by passion. I think one should love people for who they are, not what they are to them. Kanba's parents are terrorists who killed innocent people and left their children behind to run away. I would have the same stance as Shoma regarding them (although I wouldn't hate them, I learned years ago it's a waste of time to hate anybody). And those are not empty words: I only saw my mother twice those past ten years, during the funerals of family members I did care about because they were genuinely good people (among which was someone that was closest to a mother to me).

I'm aware it's bit off-topic, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

/my life.

Actually, it may not be that off-topic as I believe this a point Ikuhara might be trying to make too. We have been shown several cases where "family obligations" only led to suffering: Tabuki, Yuri, Ringo to some extent. On the other hand, we have Kanba, Shouma and Himari, who despite not being blood related all love each other deeply.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:06   Link #52
kk2extreme
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I think we will see yandere Ringo soon.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:41   Link #53
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kk2extreme View Post
I think we will see yandere Ringo soon.
I'll take that bet. Ringo will take things calmly. It's Himari who will go the yandere route, me thinks.

Mark my words: Ringo is NTRing Himari here, not the other way around.
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Old 2011-11-18, 14:59   Link #54
SoFarGone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Used Can View Post
What if Himari wasn't adopted, but Kanba? I know he resembles Kenzan, but that may be red-herring.

Anyhow, gotta love this love polygon, or whatever. This now truly feels like an Ikuni work.

Now all we need is for Sanetoshi to start fucking everybody, and we're set.
I thought Kanba and Shouma are twins?
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Old 2011-11-18, 15:15   Link #55
ars89
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Wow, that was awesome how everything just turned out.
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Old 2011-11-18, 16:50   Link #56
Blaat
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I'm more surprised by Sho being able get into the boiler (Momoka v2.0?) and Himari not being the real sibling than Sho being Himari's fated one.
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Old 2011-11-18, 17:53   Link #57
molitar
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Ok I'm really lost now after this episode. But one thing I wonder about if Shouma and Kanba are not real brothers maybe Kanba is the soul/spirit of Natsume's brother that she keeps trying to get back. Here in this episode she said it if you keep pretending to be his sister he won't come back to me!

Now who is Himari actually? Why did Shouma use his magic to save her from the boiler? And it appears the world went off track a long time ago probably from the use of changing Fate and most likely why the child boiler existed in the first place. It is appearing that Sanetoshi and their parents are attempting to set the world straight but the existence of the diary keeps messing things up. So as this world sees them as terrorist but in reality they are trying to derail this fate and get the Fate train back where it should be on the correct track that it was derailed from in the first place with all this magic that the kids were messing with.

It really reminds me of Q from Star Trek all powerful entity that has the power to tamper with reality and just like a child does not care what the affects are. It appears both Shouma and Momoka had this power and as children created their own reality until the world went askew.
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Old 2011-11-18, 17:59   Link #58
wandering-dreamer
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Location: you know that's a great question.....
Huh, so if Shouma is sorta-kinda another version of Momoka (I'm just speculating here), who the heck is the penguinhat then? We've seen with Mario that he and Himari ARE actually possessed by dead people so I suppose Shouma probably isn't a reincarnation of Momoka. Although, it would be kinda sweet if Shou put up with Ringo so much since she was his former sister, no wait, that sounds kinda incesty (if the winning pairings in this show DON'T involve incest in any way I will be impressed. )
Also, wait, so some people didn't like this episode because it suggested a pairing most people don't like? A) that's silly and B) this whole show before has been about fighting against fate, so do you guys really think that a "fated" pairing is actually going to happen?
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Old 2011-11-18, 18:25   Link #59
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer View Post
Huh, so if Shouma is sorta-kinda another version of Momoka (I'm just speculating here), who the heck is the penguinhat then? We've seen with Mario that he and Himari ARE actually possessed by dead people so I suppose Shouma probably isn't a reincarnation of Momoka.
The way this show is, I wouldn't be surprised if a part of Momoka was inside the hat and another part of her reincarnated as Shou.

In any case, the fact that he was able to enter and rescue people from the Broiler is highly suspicious. No normal person should be able to do that, so he's special somehow... like, magical

Quote:
Originally Posted by wandering-dreamer View Post
Also, wait, so some people didn't like this episode because it suggested a pairing most people don't like? A) that's silly and B) this whole show before has been about fighting against fate, so do you guys really think that a "fated" pairing is actually going to happen?
Yeah, I don't think it will happen either. It has no development to it, and we don't even know what the hell "fated" really means anyway.
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Old 2011-11-18, 18:38   Link #60
faburosumakusu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I'll take that bet. Ringo will take things calmly. It's Himari who will go the yandere route, me thinks.

Mark my words: Ringo is NTRing Himari here, not the other way around.
I agree. I just hope Himari doesn't pull an Anthy Himemiya and stabs someone...
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