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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 23 31.94%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 27 37.50%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 15.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 6.94%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 4.17%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 4.17%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-11-18, 18:51   Link #61
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faburosumakusu View Post
I agree. I just hope Himari doesn't pull an Anthy Himemiya and stabs someone...
Personally, I think Shou himself is Penguindrum's Anthy. He's the magician to Anthy's witch, after all.

I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up stabbing Ringo, only to be saved by her anyway at the very end (Utena style).
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Old 2011-11-18, 18:53   Link #62
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Yeah, I don't think it will happen either. It has no development to it, and we don't even know what the hell "fated" really means anyway.
It reminds me of the whole "prince" thing in Utena. I am almost 100% certain that "fated one" does not mean the end couple of the series at least for Shouma & Himari. It didn't get development for the very fact that we aren't supposed to be rooting for that pairing. At least that is how I see it.
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Old 2011-11-18, 19:02   Link #63
zeando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
This ties into Natsume. How is she related to this? It's already a stretch that Mario is "possessed" by his grandfather, but why is Natsume being recruited by Sanetoshi? The family doesn't appear to have any connection outside of Sanetoshi showing up with the hat to "save" Mario.
i suspect natsume family has the manage role of the child broiler
the natsume catchphrase and the motto/notices of the child broiler are similar
"you'll be crushed to pieces"
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Old 2011-11-18, 19:07   Link #64
Kirarakim
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I actually think Kanba and Natsume might be related in some way. Maybe Kanba is even that 4th person Natsume was talking about when she said they can all be together after her grandfather is gone...but there are holes in this theory since I am not sure if Masako would pursue Kanba romantically if she was just trying to get her brother back.

Although there are certainly themes of incest in this story.

However I also think Kanba might be Masako's fated one and that is why she is trying to get him back because she was somehow able to maintain her memories and realizes this (I am not sure what memories Kanba has retained).

Originally I sort of liked Kanba/Masako but if the story is pushing against fate they might not end up together after.
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Old 2011-11-18, 19:40   Link #65
mellomarie
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wow that was a doozy of an episode.

so himari is technically the adopted. but that begs the question why shoma was even there--he's clearly another uneeded child because he did say that they'd BOTH go invisible.

and him and himari are the fated ones the entire time.

either way, i'm not remotely upset about this development. it was a great PLOT centric twist. i don't think sho x himari is going to happen. sho/ringo had so much development for one. i also think kanba/himari have also developed---it makes me happy that they aren't related because i want their relationship to be romantic.

not to mention, how important is this fate thing if himari didn't even remember and that we didn't see any hints. the only hint i saw was that sho never LOVED a girl.

this also fits into my original idea that this show is about circumventing fate, that it isn't the end all be all.

as for the argument about what kanba did last episode--it was totally justified. kanba NEVER thought his parents were guilty for whatever reason, as seen in that flashback episode. he clearly loves them a lot and has his reasons, that aren't yet revealed to us, for protecting them. i'm sure he was trying to save them both. and if he ranked himari lesser than his parents, then he wouldn't have volunteered to take the punishment. clearly it was the best scenario but the riskiest in kanba's eyes.
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Old 2011-11-18, 19:42   Link #66
Reckoner
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Great episode again... Though it certainly rose more questions than it answered.

I speculated that Kanba was Natsume's brother before but was surprised to find out that I'm probably right.

Big question though... What the heck is the child broiler? Is it some magical place where people just disappear? How do people get in there in the first place? What's the mechanism?

Now if Shoma Kanba and Himari aren't related... Then who are Kanba's parents? Are they Natsume's parents too? Are those Shoma's parents? Where the heck did Himari come from? Are her memories just messed up? What was up with her earlier memories? Ugh. Must find out !

Is the world they are in all messed up because of Momoka? I know this series has always had surreal tendencies, but what exactly is up with the gradual movement into this level of surrealism in this story? It's starting to get hard to put everything together because of it.

I believe it's all explainable and will sort itself out in the end, but I guess it's just a bit hard to follow what is going on RIGHT NOW at the moment.

Utterly fascinating series. Might be aiming for one of the top spots of not just 2011 but perhaps of the last few years.
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Old 2011-11-18, 19:57   Link #67
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mellomarie View Post
he's clearly another uneeded child because he did say that they'd BOTH go invisible.
No, that was a different boy who was talking to Himari at first. Shouma "appeared" there later, and he had the apple, so unlike Himari he was never at risk there.

There are two possible conclusion here:

1) Shouma is magical like Momoka, or

2) Someone else with similar powers that Momoka's (ie Sanetoshi) gave Shouma the magical apple so he could enter the Broiler and rescue Himari.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-11-18 at 20:20.
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Old 2011-11-18, 20:08   Link #68
wandering-dreamer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
What the heck is the child broiler? Is it some magical place where people just disappear? How do people get in there in the first place? What's the mechanism?
More random theorizing (although I feel like I'm really off the mark here), what if the "unwanted" children in the child broiler are actually children who died and it's their souls being crushed up so they can never reincarnate? I'm not expecting the child broiler to be completely explained, it's just too symbolic of something, but I hope there is a little more explanation for it (I like the idea that Masako's family might be connected to it, makes her family's symbol of a new plant take on new meanings though).
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Old 2011-11-18, 20:18   Link #69
mellomarie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
No, that was a different boy who was talking to Himari at first. Shouma "appeared" there later, and he had the apple, so unlike Himari he was never at risk there.

There two possible conclusion here:

1) Shouma is magical like Momoka, or

2) Someone else with similar powers that Momoka's (ie Sanetoshi) gave Shouma the magical apple so he could enter the Broiler and rescue Himari.

oh i assumed they "masked" the voice at first, but that makes sense. thanks.

i want it to be option two tbh because having another person with that much power is too much

i wonder WHY it was shouma though.
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Old 2011-11-18, 20:30   Link #70
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This is a whole jumble of questions and I'm not sure if we're going to get solid answers out of this.
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Old 2011-11-18, 20:43   Link #71
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by mellomarie View Post
oh i assumed they "masked" the voice at first, but that makes sense. thanks.

i want it to be option two tbh because having another person with that much power is too much

i wonder WHY it was shouma though.
I actually think it is closer to option 1 and Shouma is special. I think maybe that is why his dad (sorry I never remember the parents names) started the terrorist act (or survival strategy) after his son was born. Maybe they knew he was going to be a special child.

Of course we don't know if Shouma was the son he was talking about.
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Old 2011-11-18, 20:54   Link #72
mellomarie
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I actually think it is closer to option 1 and Shouma is special. I think maybe that is why his dad (sorry I never remember the parents names) started the terrorist act (or survival strategy) after his son was born. Maybe they knew he was going to be a special child.

Of course we don't know if Shouma was the son he was talking about.
Hmm, that's an interesting take. I really don't mind if Sho *is* special, I just wanted handled differently than Momoka. I'm also curious why Sho is the way he is now because in the flashback, Sho is confident & powerful seeing he has the ability to save Himari. If he's truly special, why is he so down on himself now?

That said, I'm reluctant to to tie it with Kenzan's comment just yet because if Kanba were to be the actual son of Kenzan, then Natsume could be his sister too as she said her father is still part of that terrorist organization--so maybe that's how they're related if that's the theory at this point.

But being totally honest, Natsume's love seems a little more than sisterly and it seems OOC for her to be in love with her brother.

Sorry, I'm just rambling thoughts lol
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Old 2011-11-18, 21:38   Link #73
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Some comments:

I was really heart broken by the Yuri scene. Like I thought, she really did have feelings for Tabuki. Is his story really done? I can't help but feel he's yet to play an important part in this story.

Sanetoshi reveals himself to be a manipulator- and a major goal is the destruction of the diary. I'm thinking it really is the penguin drum. Is he worried that Yuri will restore Momoka to life and that therefor she will be empowered to once again stop him?

I think that Kanba is the one true son. Which explains why he is the one with unshakable trust in his parents and why his parents have revealed themselves to him and not the others.

Himari being the outsider makes so much more sense then Kanba.

Masako and Kanba might be cousins, but I don't expect a closer relationship then that.

Shouma used magic to make Himari his sister.

Huh... does that mean that earlier scene with Himari and Triple H was an implanted memory? An altered one? It came after the magic fruit of fate?

Shouma has been the most normal of all the kids. The least involved in the mystical. Is he hiding it or has he forgotten his powers?

Where did Shouma come from? Is he part of the fate that parents tried to create that fateful day when Momoka died?

Why did he choose Himari? He's never shown any of the sexual attraction that Kanba has. And who are Momoka and Shouma, picking one child out of all the others to save? I'm not criticizing, I'm just wondering at the symbolism: "Chooser of the Living" Isn't taht what both Shouma and Momoka have been? Kanba is a destroyer, even his heroism is based in destruction. Shouma has been a healer and giver. Momoka seemed to be a healer but at the cost of herself being destroyed....

Trying to figure out the symbolism here. I'm even more intrigued by the story now.
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Old 2011-11-18, 21:57   Link #74
Kazu-kun
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Theory time:

In episode 16 Sanetoshi said that Kensan's organization (KIGA) are "chosen ones" who are working with him to bring the world "on track". This means Kanba's parents and Sanetoshi are working together to achieve/complete whatever they initiated in 1995.

I think things are playing out like this:

Sanetoshi + KIGA (Takakura parents) + KIGA children (Kanba, Masako, etc)

VS

PotC (Momoka) + Diary + whoever she can bring to her side.

Sanetoshi has the obvious advantage, it seems, but that's to be expected. The bad guys always have the advantage until the very end, when things get reverted.

Although he says he wants to "put the world on track", we can assume what he really wants is to create a new world-line where all the problems of the world are supposedly fixed. We can assume this because in episode 13 he said he has seen how the world should be in order for everyone to be saved. The problem is the cost: we already know he needs terrorist attacks and human victims to achieve what he wants.

The PotC (Momoka)'s goal is probably to stop Sanetoshi once and for all. Tabuki already revealed Momoka tried to stop the subway attack but she couldn't do it completely, she couldn't save everyone. This probably means the current world-line is neither the original (before the subway incident), nor the new one that Sanetoshi wants, but something in between. That's why it's so messed up.

Now Sanetoshi wants to complete what he began in 1995, probably through a new terrorist attack. He hints as much in episode 19, when he says he’ll have the children finish what the parents initiated.

Momoka, in the form of the PotC wants the Takakura children to use the Penguindrum to stop Sanetoshi (in episode 12 she told Shouma to stop the dark bunnies) and derail fate to go back to the original world-line, a world where Sanetoshi and KIGA never fucked things up in the first place.
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Old 2011-11-18, 22:14   Link #75
Zaresh
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I'm really really starting to think that Kanba's parents being in the restaurant were sort of an hallucination. It's not only because they haven't changed nor because they were wearing the same clothes as in the flashbacks. It's because they said what Kanba wished to hear. He has got a hero complex and a father complex, both of them being satisfied with their speech: he's the glue to his family, the protector and support, etc. They were like NPCs, very indulgent, static and kind of fake.

Besides, like someone pointed somewhere, it's just too suspicious for two fugitives to appear on their neighbourhood just like that and nobody noticing them.
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Old 2011-11-18, 23:12   Link #76
Sackett
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That or they are saying what Kanba wants to hear because that is how they control him.

Another thought... one of the few things we have seen the PotC do is get Ringo and Shouma together.

Maybe that's why she sent Shouma after Ringo? Perhaps Momoka can see all the different path ways of fate and thinks that is one of the best ones? Perhaps when she said that "Ringo has the penguin drum... probably", she meant that Ringo held Shouma's affection? Maybe it was still up in the air at that point?

Could that be the penguin drum? Shouma's affection is the key? The same way Momoka's affection was the key to her saving Yuki and Tabuki?

Shouma loves Himari, so he saved Himari. Shouma loves Ringo, so he saves Ringo. Shouma is the real hero? Shouma is the Christ figure? Kanba is the Scorpion?

Shouma... loving Himari, and loving Ringo is being moved towards a desire to erase the subway attacks as if they never happened? Thus achieving Momoka's goal?

The diary is just the solvent that holds the spell? Shouma is the reactant,and his affection the catalyst?
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Old 2011-11-19, 01:19   Link #77
Lota
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Ok, so I get that Shouma might be the one who will save everyone with his magic. What I don't get is why PotC keeps only Kanba close to herself

She said that Kanba can still save Himari with the Penguidrum... so did she mean that Himari will be saved by Shouma (if he really is the Penguindrum)?

Unhh, I can't understand this and it's bugging me. Does PotC keep Kanba close to herself so that he wouldn't get in the way of Shouma saving the world, or does Kanba serve another purpose? I love both of them, but I would be genuinely annoyed if Shouma got all the glory for saving everyone when Kanba was the one who received the punishment and gave up a part of his life to save his Himari...
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Old 2011-11-19, 01:48   Link #78
Kazu-kun
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Ok, so I get that Shouma might be the one who will save everyone with his magic. What I don't get is why PotC keeps only Kanba close to herself

She said that Kanba can still save Himari with the Penguidrum... so did she mean that Himari will be saved by Shouma (if he really is the Penguindrum)?
Well, at first I did think that Shouma could be the penguindrum. I don't think that anymore. After all, his apple is a KIGA apple. KIGA is Kensan's organization, which is controlled by Sanetoshi, and they are the perpetrators of the subway attack....

Now, the one who pushed Himari to remember that she was "fated" to be someone's bride in the first place was Sanetoshi (in episode 9). So Shouma being Himari's "fated one" was probably part of Sanetoshi's malefic plan to begin with.

The PotC probably knew this, and that's why she kept Shouma aside, and also why she sort of pushed Shouma and Ringo together. I'm pretty sure the PotC wants Kanba to save Himari because that probably will stop whatever malefic goal Sanetoshi wants to achieve.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lota View Post
Unhh, I can't understand this and it's bugging me. Does PotC keep Kanba close to herself so that he wouldn't get in the way of Shouma saving the world, or does Kanba serve another purpose? I love both of them, but I would be genuinely annoyed if Shouma got all the glory for saving everyone when Kanba was the one who received the punishment and gave up a part of his life to save his Himari...
We're talking Ikuhara here. The one saving the day at the end isn't going to get any glory; he's going to meet a gruesome death or disappear forever.

And just so you know, I do think Kanba is going to save the day at the end....

...and disappear forever!
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Old 2011-11-19, 01:51   Link #79
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The fact that Shouma is Himari's fated one doesn't really surprise me; after all the irony that Kanba loves Himari but she loves Shouma was one of the early theories. I'm just surprised that Shouma is the one who gave Himari the apple. If I'm not mistaken someone mentioned that the unknown boy's voice in the early Himari-centric episode was credited as Mario in the voice list, so everyone thought Mario is Himari's fated one. You can troll audience in the credits ?

My only disappointment in this episode was that I thought Shouma will shine this time. Maybe in the next episode.
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Old 2011-11-19, 02:07   Link #80
eplipswich
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Damn...when i saw the two rotating fans at the sides of Himari, I knew what was coming...the Child Broiler, lol.

I do remember in an earlier episode thread that someone said the Child Broiler was a metaphor, and I still believe the Child Broiler with Himari and Shouma is a metaphor as well. My question is, what exactly is the metaphor of Child Broiler? Why is this metaphor so closely related to Momoka and Shouma? Or is this metaphor a concept that is exclusive to them? And of course, the thing with the Apple that Shouma gave to Himari. So was Shouma controlled or something?

Anyway, this episode truly reveals a lot of important information as the anime gets closer to the end.
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