AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Penguin Drum

Notices

View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 23 31.94%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 27 37.50%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 15.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 6.94%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 4.17%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 4.17%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-11-19, 02:33   Link #81
Archon_Wing
Hater
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Being totally ebillll
Age: 30
Send a message via MSN to Archon_Wing
Confusing as fuck episode, but entertaining. Masako is a ruthless bitch.

Well, Kanba x Himari becomes more of a possibility with this revelation, but apparently it's actually Shouma that saved Himari. This episode was a nice one detailing Himari's connection to her family, since it's been their driving force. Which really leads the question of is blood really that important-- is their family still real despite this. That's a challenge they'll have to face; can they accept the reality they made in spite of what happened? I give this episode an 8 but I want more answers.

Also lol@ the factory of doom again.
__________________
You just try again... through the darkness.You just go away... the future is waiting for us!
Avatar and Sig courtesy of TheEroKing
Guild Wars 2 SN: ArchonWing.9480 (Stormbluff Isle)
MyAnimeList || Reviews
Archon_Wing is online now  
Old 2011-11-19, 05:10   Link #82
zeando
maybenotimome
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Why did he choose Himari? He's never shown any of the sexual attraction that Kanba has. And who are Momoka and Shouma, picking one child out of all the others to save? I'm not criticizing, I'm just wondering at the symbolism: "Chooser of the Living" Isn't taht what both Shouma and Momoka have been? Kanba is a destroyer, even his heroism is based in destruction. Shouma has been a healer and giver. Momoka seemed to be a healer but at the cost of herself being destroyed....

Trying to figure out the symbolism here. I'm even more intrigued by the story now.
what if when momoka died she splitted and now shouma has her power and kanba her will(to save) ? fu-sion
zeando is offline  
Old 2011-11-19, 10:22   Link #83
ookamigirl
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Kan, Sho, Himari & Ringo back together again in a family environment.
That was really nice.
Interesting how Himari is feeling out of place all of a sudden..
__________________
My new Blog --> ookami (anime, manga, movies, JDrama, music, Japan..) & latest reviews

ookamigirl is offline  
Old 2011-11-19, 19:55   Link #84
Sackett
Cross Game - I need more
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 35
Somewhere else someone pointed out that Shouma's constant failures to do anything heroic are often caused by his penguin sabotaging him.

And that when Shouma was doing stuff with Ringo that fate seemed to twist in certain directions... towards what Shouma thought was a better outcome?
__________________

Cross Game - A Story of Love, Life, Death - and Baseball. What more could you want?
Sackett is offline  
Old 2011-11-19, 20:23   Link #85
wandering-dreamer
reads too much
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: you know that's a great question.....
I saw that theory too (think it was over on tvtropes) that perhaps fate is manipulating Shouma (through the actions of his penguin) so that he will be useless and unable to use whatever Momoka-like powers he might have. And, if Sanetoshi was the one to send the penguins, which is the feeling I got, then it would make perfect sense that he is trying to manipulate the game more from the sidelines.
wandering-dreamer is offline  
Old 2011-11-19, 20:30   Link #86
VictorVV
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: France
I read somewhere that penguins could me made of children made invisible by the Child Broiler. It would explain why they are invisible.
In Episode 9, the conveyor that ships penguins bears the same symbols that the one sending children to the machine in the Child Broiler in Episode 19.
snapshots :
http://mawarupenguindrum.com/wp-cont...snap-00083.png
http://mawarupenguindrum.com/wp-cont...8_01.31.12.jpg

Last edited by VictorVV; 2011-11-19 at 20:47.
VictorVV is offline  
Old 2011-11-19, 21:10   Link #87
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
Somewhere else someone pointed out that Shouma's constant failures to do anything heroic are often caused by his penguin sabotaging him.

And that when Shouma was doing stuff with Ringo that fate seemed to twist in certain directions... towards what Shouma thought was a better outcome?
I actually think this is true but I don't think the Penguin is purposely sabotaging Shouma. The Penguins are a reflection of their owners so I think something inside Shouma (his own guilt, feelings of worthlessness) is what is preventing him from being heroic. He is his own worst enemy in a sense.
__________________
Kirarakim is offline  
Old 2011-11-19, 21:15   Link #88
ThereminVox
Guess what time it is?
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Age: 29
I get the feeling this episode is going to be mostly useless in terms of actually confirming reveals until episode 20 gives us some context. Because right now I just. I don't. Wh. What did. Who is. It doesn't.

You know what? 5 eps left. *plants feet*. Bring it on.
ThereminVox is offline  
Old 2011-11-20, 06:31   Link #89
Haak
F**k my life...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
It's hard to see how they're gonna wrap up this Kudzu Plot in 5 episodes, but I have a feeling they'll manage it somehow. You know what's amazing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Every single episode I just keep saying it can't get any more bizarre than this and every single episode I'm proven wrong...
Yep, I'm still being proven wrong.
__________________
Haak is offline  
Old 2011-11-20, 09:44   Link #90
klare
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
the twists keep on coming, we were being misled all the time, next eps im sure we will see another twist, actually quite amazing a single eps shown so many things happening

at least now we know that Kanba is the only real son, too many questions in my head so will just wait for the next eps...
__________________
klare is offline  
Old 2011-11-20, 10:47   Link #91
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by klare View Post
at least now we know that Kanba is the only real son, too many questions in my head so will just wait for the next eps...
Actually I wouldn't say this is confirmed yet!
__________________
Kirarakim is offline  
Old 2011-11-20, 12:50   Link #92
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by klare View Post
at least now we know that Kanba is the only real son, too many questions in my head so will just wait for the next eps...
I wouldn't bet on that. For all we know Kanba's physical similarity with his father might be another redherring. After all Himari is basically a loli version of Chiemi, yet lolnonrelated
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is online now  
Old 2011-11-20, 19:03   Link #93
Ramong
Danish geek
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Denmark
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to Ramong Send a message via Skype™ to Ramong
I have always felt that the child broiler was not a physical place, but more a state of mind.
Depression or so.
Tabuki was depressed that his mother didn't seem to want him anymore, Momoka then befriended him and did what she did and in turn made him want to live again.
Himari's real parrents might have died, she was depressed and got adopted by Takakura family where Shouma than befriended her.

I might be wrong, but I have a hard time to accept that there is such a place as a child broiler that erase peoples existence

I loved this episode, every episode of Penguin Drum is a blast!
Ramong is offline  
Old 2011-11-22, 02:53   Link #94
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Ikuhara definitely trolled us. He complained about fan shipping, and here he basically build up a love icosagon. Then you know what he will do next? he will doom all of them by the end of this, and let only non-romantic relationship remains...

So if you have been shipping any pairings in this anime. Prepare to face the ultimate troll, i don't think we see the worst of Ikuhara yet.....



Back into the episode, i think Shouma is really Himari's fated one, and is only the real son of Takakura family. It's an ultimate irony, can't you see? The only child who despised his parents, and suffered no direct consequences from his parents actions, is the biological child. Comparing to both Kanba, who is their personal slave (being easily manipulated), and Himari who suffered all of the consequences. The second set of irony is more clear. Kanba who went an extra hundred miles to protect Hiamri, to keep the family together, who actually hold romantic feeling toward Himari all these times. But then his 'brother' who innocence was kept on, always arrive late to rescue, and who has always treat Himari no better than a sister, turns out to be Himari's fated person. To make it more sour, he is possibly Momoka partial reincarnation as well, and is center of affection from most key characters


PS: it seems the diary tricked the wrong owner into what they wanted to see. That's why Ringo saw the future of her and Tabuki, Yuri saw the method to revive Momoka, and Natsume saw the spell that may save her brother. Maybe only when Shouma finally got a hold of it, that's when it becomes the Penguin Drum that can shift people fate. There the final set of irony. Everything in this anime can be solved if and only if Shouma touched/used the diary, which could happen as early as ep 5.

Edit1: anyone noticed how Himari addressed herself in that broiler room? She might be the PoC afterall
__________________

Last edited by risingstar3110; 2011-11-22 at 03:06.
risingstar3110 is offline  
Old 2011-11-22, 05:09   Link #95
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Ikuhara definitely trolled us. He complained about fan shipping.
Ikuhara never complained about shipping. What he dislikes is how the otaku idolize the characters and live submerged in fantasy. That's why he asked Anno to have Rei growing older and getting pregnant at the end of EVA. That would shatter the otaku's fantasy of seeing her eternally pure.

Ikuhara did say he feel some times the romance distracts the audience from the point the story's trying to make. But that doesn't mean he dislikes romance per se. For instance, the romance in the Utena movie is pretty prominent, and the movie still manage to make its point clear and it has a happy ending to boot.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is online now  
Old 2011-11-22, 07:06   Link #96
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Ikuhara never complained about shipping. What he dislikes is how the otaku idolize the characters and live submerged in fantasy. That's why he asked Anno to have Rei growing older and getting pregnant at the end of EVA. That would shatter the otaku's fantasy of seeing her eternally pure.

Ikuhara did say he feel some times the romance distracts the audience from the point the story's trying to make. But that doesn't mean he dislikes romance per se. For instance, the romance in the Utena movie is pretty prominent, and the movie still manage to make its point clear and it has a happy ending to boot.
Isn't that a roundabout complain against fan shipping? And i don't think there is such dominant on heterosexual romance in Utena. Mostly just as plot device in fact

In the end it's just some twists of words from 'audiences being distracted from the story due to all of the heterosexual romance' to 'the heterosexual romances distracted the audiences from the story'. His exact quote was something like this:
Quote:
In reality, if I have a guy in the show, the love relationship gets to have a bigger role than the show. And that would be an interesting element, but I wouldn't want that to make that the scene-stealer of the show. Most other shoujo shows are in that direction. It's about who-and-who are getting together, or who-and-who are breaking up. I thought it would be a loss if that would be the big motif just because a girl was the main character. I think there could be more shows with other motives than that.
__________________
risingstar3110 is offline  
Old 2011-11-22, 22:15   Link #97
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Here some of my thoughts about a post from Ikuhara's twitter and how it relates to the latest developments in Penguindrum.

Quote:
The illusion… that the “fated love” I meet by chance one day is undoubtedly “my other half, which was lost at some point.” And the illusion… that that fated love will, without a doubt, forgive me for my shortcomings. And I still dream of forgiving her for all her shortcomings too.
Nobody is perfect. We all have shortcomings. But we all need to better ourselves and become stronger day by day in order to live. Expecting that someone will without a doubt forgive you for your shortcomings can be a dangerous fantasy. You may feel tempted to become stagnant and wait for the person who you think will surely come and accept you with all you faults, instead of changing and better yourself.

This reminds me of how the otaku submerge themselves in the fantasy of pure waifus and refuse to accept that they need to change in order to have real lives and meet real girls.

Quote:
At one point, it suddenly hit me. Continuing to say the words, “You’re not it.” “It’s not you.” is life itself." Maybe it’s okay for me to stay here. Maybe I have to change. Will I still be me after I change? And… What happens to me if I don’t change…
I like this question: "Will I still be me after I change?" We all have to change all the time, but how much is still "you" after you change. Well, such is the nature of the world. The one thing that is certain is that you must not let yourself become stagnant.

Quote:
The miracle of meeting someone who says, “I like you the way you are.” THAT is what I want to depict.
This line seems to allude to something different from what the first line was talking about. I mean, I think there is a difference between meeting someone that would love you the way you are, and expecting that someone will surely and without a doubt come and love you the way you are. The former is a lovely miracle, whereas the latter is a dangerous delusion, IMO.

In episode 19 Himari begins to feel she's losing her place in the family. Right after she sees Shouma and Ringo washing the dishes, there's a shot of Double H on the TV. There's a unspoken question lingering here: "Will I lose my place in the family, like I lost my place in Triple H?"

From this scene, it strikes me that Himari's most important desire was/is to be part of Triple H. That didn't work out, and now her family is some sort of replacement for what she's lost.

But now that even her family seems to be slipping away from her fingers, she begins to remember who she really is. Why does her memory is coming back now of all times? Because right now, when she feels she's losing her family, she desperately needs something to hold on to.

Enter the "fated love."

"It's ok if I can't be part of Triple H. It's ok if I lose my place in the family. It's ok because my "fated one" will without a doubt accept me the way I am, so I don't need to change, I don't need to do anything."

Little Himari here is running away. She's using the "illusion" of fated love to avoid facing reality, facing her problems.

It's pretty much the same as Shouma blaming his parents for the all the hardships in his life. Whether his parents are terrorist doesn't matter. He will never become stronger unless he change and stop blaming others (or fate).

He and Himari need to take the reins of their own lives and stop running away.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is online now  
Old 2011-11-23, 01:01   Link #98
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
@Kazu-kun: it is a romantic idea to look at things from that viewpoint. And i do agree that little Himari have always wants to belong to both the Triple-H and her family, and run from one to another when she encountered hardship. But isn't everyone always has something called "home" to run back to whenever things gone wrong? It's a weakness, but without it, they have nothing to begin on.

In case of Himari, when her dream of Triple H fell out, she fell back and tried to be content with being with her family. And once her role family is more settle, she try to reach toward her role within Triple H (maybe not as a member, but as a friend).


One thing i do not agree is, when you stated that she is trying to run away to her 'fated one' once her role in the family shaken. Could be. But it's too early to tell. IMO, little Himari always only has one home to run back to - her family. And the arrival of Ringo making her less insecure about her role within the family . And then it was further crumbled, as we realised that she may not be connect by blood to her family in the first place. If you think about it, the screen will not be near as strong if... let's say Tabuki is her soulmate.

PS: Or we can also interpret that screen of Shouma and Ringo washing dish as the foreshadow of this episode ending. Himari's woman tuition just pricked herself when she sees her fated one with another woman. But i knows since you are in RIngo x Shouma camp, so i won't cross you on that
__________________
risingstar3110 is offline  
Old 2011-11-23, 02:19   Link #99
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
But isn't everyone always has something called "home" to run back to whenever things gone wrong? It's a weakness, but without it, they have nothing to begin on.
That's different IMO. I get that your family is supposed to be there for you, to help you when you need to, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. But that's not was Himari was doing. Since the Triple-H thing didn't work out, Himari was using her family as a means of self-validation. To put it bluntly, if Himari isn't part of Triple-H she feels her life has no purpose (the novel makes that pretty clear), so she looks for validation (purpose) in keeping her family together.

Like I said, that's totally difference than relying on your family from time to time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
In case of Himari, when her dream of Triple H fell out, she fell back and tried to be content with being with her family. And once her role family is more settle, she try to reach toward her role within Triple H (maybe not as a member, but as a friend).
But she didn't. Remember that she didn't have the courage to send the mufflers. Sanetoshi did it, defeating the purpose of making them in the first place.

I do think that instead of hiding herself in her "fated love" she should try to meet Hibari and Hikari and find some closure with them. Maybe even rekindle their friendship. That's what she really wants to do after all.

But she obviously doesn't have the courage for that. If she did, we probably wouldn't have much story to tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
One thing i do not agree is, when you stated that she is trying to run away to her 'fated one' once her role in the family shaken. Could be. But it's too early to tell.
Maybe, maybe not. Why did Tabuki and Yuri thought that Momoka was their "fated one"? Because Momoka became the personal validation they lacked in their life. But, exactly because of that, when Momoka was no longer with them, their world crumbled.

The thing is that looking for personal validation in something external to you is always a misguided exercise. It makes you dependant. And I don't think it's a coincidence that Himari began to remember her "fated one" now the she's in desperate need of personal validation.

And that's the problem. It's Momoka and Tabuki all over again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
Or we can also interpret that screen of Shouma and Ringo washing dish as the foreshadow of this episode ending. Himari's woman tuition just pricked herself when she sees her fated one with another woman. But i knows since you are in RIngo x Shouma camp, so i won't cross you on that
I just think everything in Penguindrum is theme-driven. Petty jealousy just doesn't seem relevant at all IMO. On the other hand, having the idea "fated love" as a means for personal validation totally fits with the themes of the show.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif

Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-11-23 at 03:19.
Kazu-kun is online now  
Old 2011-11-23, 04:26   Link #100
Morisato
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Has anyone noticed that Himari's brothers have Red (Kan) and Blue (Shouma) hair while her HHH friends have Red (Hibari) and Blue (Hikari) hair?

There's some deep symbolism in paralleling their hair colours.
Morisato is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
raging hard, trolling auther

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 13:11.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.