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Old 2011-11-19, 11:06   Link #2461
Sunder the Gold
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Speaking of drones, how about that Garden of Time?

Precia was apparently finacially well-off, but there's no way she had the money or the inclination to create an entire space station for a home. To say nothing of how the TSAB probably doesn't allow single civilians to create space-stations equipped with robot defense forces.

(Not unless the TSAB is privately funding the civilian, anyway.)


I wonder if the Garden of Time isn't a Midchildan remnant of the Sankt Kaiser Reunification era; a space station that was created to guard Midchilda from its enemies.

That would help explain why it looks so damn old, settled and overgrown in the movie manga, and in Fate's dream of "what if my sister never died". I'm guessing the fortress was damaged and got scuttled on planet.


As for why Precia is allowed to live there, perhaps her ancestors were nobility and the Garden of Time was their domain. So, as long as she abided by TSAB requirements to disable or disarm certain weapon systems, the TSAB would not evict her and scrap the whole thing for parts.

Yet she somehow got her hands on a Lost Logia capable of powering the whole place back up*, and when she was declared a Dimensional Criminal, she decided to take the Garden of Time and hightail it into the Dimensional Sea to avoid capture and continue working on Alicia's resurrection.

*That non-Jewel Seed gem thing that Nanoha sealed in the Garden of Time, after splitting up with Fate.


The drones might have been an old Midchildan invention to counter Belkan AMF technology.

For that matter, the Midchildan Magic System's focus on long-range attacks might have been in response to Belkan AMF technology.

Both of the close-combat mages among the Forwards were Subaru and Erio, but they were using Belkan System, which might work better for fighting directly inside Anti-Magilink Fields. For one thing, Belkan system places more demands on the body than the Linker Core, which is compensated by a greatly increased diet.

Further, Erio was an Artificial Mage, and Subaru was the combat cyborg daughter of a strong mage. Therefore, they were both powerful exceptions on top of Belkan mages.

Teana, by contrast, is a fairly traditional Midchildan mage without a great deal of power, and she was able to deal with AMF conditions by attacking from range using the Variable Shell technique. Thus supporting the idea that the Midchildan System evolved to its current state as a response to the technology of Belkan enemies.

Perhaps also in response to the Marriage, who can kill close-quarters combatants by exploding when they die. The safest way to take them out is from a distance.
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Old 2011-11-19, 13:40   Link #2462
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
The drones might have been an old Midchildan invention to counter Belkan AMF technology.
Not very wall designed tough, all but one are unable to do good ranged attacks and their dangeerousity come more from their size and bulk that to the queality of their weapons/armor(remebers how Chrono alone was mercilessly ttashing every robot in his path without bathing an eye). The final bot, tugh was better equiped and took the combined efforts of two powerfull AAA mages(and a AA mage and a Familiar if you want to count Yuuno and Arf chaining the whole thing) to take it down.
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Old 2011-11-19, 14:14   Link #2463
Amaterasu1963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Speaking of drones, how about that Garden of Time?

Precia was apparently finacially well-off, but there's no way she had the money or the inclination to create an entire space station for a home. To say nothing of how the TSAB probably doesn't allow single civilians to create space-stations equipped with robot defense forces.

(Not unless the TSAB is privately funding the civilian, anyway.)


I wonder if the Garden of Time isn't a Midchildan remnant of the Sankt Kaiser Reunification era; a space station that was created to guard Midchilda from its enemies.

That would help explain why it looks so damn old, settled and overgrown in the movie manga, and in Fate's dream of "what if my sister never died". I'm guessing the fortress was damaged and got scuttled on planet.


As for why Precia is allowed to live there, perhaps her ancestors were nobility and the Garden of Time was their domain. So, as long as she abided by TSAB requirements to disable or disarm certain weapon systems, the TSAB would not evict her and scrap the whole thing for parts.

Yet she somehow got her hands on a Lost Logia capable of powering the whole place back up*, and when she was declared a Dimensional Criminal, she decided to take the Garden of Time and hightail it into the Dimensional Sea to avoid capture and continue working on Alicia's resurrection.

*That non-Jewel Seed gem thing that Nanoha sealed in the Garden of Time, after splitting up with Fate.
Sorry, no. It's not a space station. It was the family home. You seem to have forgotten that Precia was an SS-rank mage with a specialty in dimensional magic. She dimension shifted the whole thing off the surface of Midchilda into a pocket dimension.
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Old 2011-11-19, 14:31   Link #2464
Sunder the Gold
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Not very wall designed tough, all but one are unable to do good ranged attacks and their dangeerousity come more from their size and bulk that to the queality of their weapons/armor(remebers how Chrono alone was mercilessly ttashing every robot in his path without bathing an eye). The final bot, tugh was better equiped and took the combined efforts of two powerfull AAA mages(and a AA mage and a Familiar if you want to count Yuuno and Arf chaining the whole thing) to take it down.
Like I said, Midchildans designed their magic to work best from long range, and Belkan magic and AMF conditions (and Belkans trained in their own AMF conditions) made close-range fighting dangerous.

Thus, the robots were made to engage the enemy at close range while the mages stayed back and provided firesupport. So the robots didn't generally need long range weapons.

As for poor quality, Chrono IS an Ace himself, so I don't imagine that rank-and-file Belkan mages fighting in AMF conditions would do as well against those robots as he did, especially since he generally fought them at long-range, which is the range they were not designed to handle.

It's also possible that Precia couldn't get enough quality parts to put them all back in proper working order.


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Sorry, no. It's not a space station. It was the family home.
The thing is far too enormous for a mere family home, and it looks exactly like a space station that was landed on the ground. It does not look like anyone intended that thing to sit on land, given how much narrower the base is compared to the rest.

Not to mention how noteably tilted the darn thing is. And how the bottom features the exact same spikes that the top does.
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Old 2011-11-19, 15:12   Link #2465
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The drones are Belkan in origin.
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Old 2011-11-19, 15:34   Link #2466
Sunder the Gold
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The drones are Belkan in origin.
I have no idea where you're coming in on this conversation.

Are you responding to the question about Jail's drones, or the ideas about Precia's drones?
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Old 2011-11-19, 21:28   Link #2467
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Jail's. Precia's are magically powered, so golems would be a more accurate term for those.
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Old 2011-11-19, 21:55   Link #2468
Sunder the Gold
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Jail's.
So he might have had access to the Cradle for several years without the Brains finding out...

Or he might have found those stealth-drones from something else, and there happened to be more in the Cradle. Which makes sense -- you can find the same jets stationed on more than one naval aircraft carrier.

Did we ever learn why they attacked Vita and Nanoha; or rather, what those two were doing when they got attacked?


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Precia's are magically powered, so golems would be a more accurate term for those.
Would they still function in AMF conditions, do you think?

Complete AMF is enough to shut down flight magic, but not barrier jackets (though that may have been because the writers simply forgot BJs are spells, too).

But Devices still functioned in total AMF conditions, even if they couldn't actually do much of anything, right? So a Device with arms and legs could move and attack.
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Old 2011-11-19, 21:57   Link #2469
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Jail's. Precia's are magically powered, so golems would be a more accurate term for those.
Weren't Jail's magically powered too? Heck, I never recalled any other kind of power source in the Nanohaverse. Not all the drones were powered by Jewel Seeds, and you can also argue of Jewel Seeds as a magical power source.

EDIT: Scratch that, I don't remember whether it was Jewel Seed or Relic.

And wouldn't the distinction between golems and drones be more on whether they have machinery inside or not instead of what powered them?
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Old 2011-11-19, 22:14   Link #2470
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Please tell me that those were fake, knock-off Jewel Seeds.

The idea that the much-less-than-the-original-21 world-devastingly-powerful Jewel Seeds recovered from the Precia incident would be used to power much-more-than-21 rank and file disposable drones is insulting.

It would have been a much better use for those damned Relics that ended up being completely unimportant.
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Old 2011-11-19, 22:23   Link #2471
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
So he might have had access to the Cradle for several years without the Brains finding out...

Or he might have found those stealth-drones from something else, and there happened to be more in the Cradle. Which makes sense -- you can find the same jets stationed on more than one naval aircraft carrier.

Did we ever learn why they attacked Vita and Nanoha; or rather, what those two were doing when they got attacked?
The cradle was the factory for the drones, so that rules them out from being mid. The only other civilization you could tag them would be Al Hazardian, though I find them to be woefully underwhelming to have been from the civilization that made tiny gems that could blow up worlds.

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Would they still function in AMF conditions, do you think?
I... can't really say. Too little data. We don't know how their magical systems work beyond that they were linked to the reactor of the Garden of Time. Whether they would work in AMF conditions is a cointoss at the moment, but I personally would say no.

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Weren't Jail's magically powered too? Heck, I never recalled any other kind of power source in the Nanohaverse. Not all the drones were powered by Jewel Seeds, and you can also argue of Jewel Seeds as a magical power source.

And wouldn't the distinction between golems and drones be more on whether they have machinery inside or not instead of what powered them?
Given that they were mobile generators of AMF? Doubtful they were magically powered. Even if it wouldn't shut them down completely it'd still interfere with their systems.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Please tell me that those were fake, knock-off Jewel Seeds.

The idea that the much-less-than-the-original-21 world-devastingly-powerful Jewel Seeds recovered from the Precia incident would be used to power much-more-than-21 rank and file disposable drones is insulting.

It would have been a much better use for those damned Relics that ended up being completely unimportant.
Fractions at best. Recall that the jewel seed was embedded in a microchip which itself was many times enhanced.
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Old 2011-11-19, 22:39   Link #2472
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The cradle was the factory for the drones, so that rules them out from being mid. The only other civilization you could tag them would be Al Hazardian, though I find them to be woefully underwhelming to have been from the civilization that made tiny gems that could blow up worlds.
The Cradle itself is Al Hazardian. Maybe the drone factor was something the Belkans added later.

Or maybe pinnacle creations like the Jewel Seeds represented a gross excess and waste of resources even to the Al Hazardians, most of whom considered gadget drones to be more efficient tools.

Especially when they were supplementing a virtually invincible battle fortress with total AMF cability.

The individual robots of its teeming defense force wouldn't need to be particularly world-shaking on their own. Especially if they were only meant to support Al Hazardian mages.


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I... can't really say. Too little data. We don't know how their magical systems work beyond that they were linked to the reactor of the Garden of Time. Whether they would work in AMF conditions is a cointoss at the moment, but I personally would say no.
As I said, I figure if a Device can remain functional enough to stay on-line and talk, and even change colors according to a personalization function (Revolver Knuckle), then a magically-powered robot can remain functional enough to move and swing an axe.

Wait... did they all stop moving when Nanoha and Lindy were done sealing the place? (Also, if Nanoha was sealing the Garden's powersource, what did Lindy seal?)


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Given that they were mobile generators of AMF? Doubtful they were magically powered. Even if it wouldn't shut them down completely it'd still interfere with their systems.
The Combat Cyborgs likely run on the same power source. Alternatively, AMF doesn't interfere with magical powersources so much as magical systems, and technological systems designed to use magic for fuel are unaffected.


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Fractions at best. Recall that the jewel seed was embedded in a microchip which itself was many times enhanced.
Fracturing priceless wonders like Jewel Seeds to power disposable drones is still an extremely stupid idea that added nothing to the story.

But then, so much of StrikerS is like that.
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Old 2011-11-19, 22:47   Link #2473
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As I said, I figure if a Device can remain functional enough to stay on-line and talk, and even change colors according to a personalization function (Revolver Knuckle), then a magically-powered robot can remain functional enough to move and swing an axe.
The difference being that said devices are in direct physical contact with a living, breathing mage. These golems, on the other hand, are wirelessly connected with a non-living magical powersource.

The difference is rather vast.

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Wait... did they all stop moving when Nanoha and Lindy were done sealing the place? (Also, if Nanoha was sealing the Garden's powersource, what did Lindy seal?)
Lindy was suppressing the dimensional disturbance itself.

Yeah, she's that awesome.

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Fracturing priceless wonders like Jewel Seeds to power disposable drones is still an extremely stupid idea that added nothing to the story.

But then, so much of StrikerS is like that.
Well, it did end up making them stable. That's progress from "if a kitty touches it bad stuff will happen."
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Old 2011-11-19, 23:23   Link #2474
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Given that they were mobile generators of AMF? Doubtful they were magically powered. Even if it wouldn't shut them down completely it'd still interfere with their systems.
And yet there are instances of Type III Gadget Drones being powered by Jewel Seeds, which are magical.

Anyway, my main point is that it would be inaccurate to call Precia's base guards as golems because they're magic-powered. A water clock is still a clock, and an electric car is still a car.

The difference between golem and gadget drone IMO is the insides - golems, as shown in Vivid, are wholly created by their base materials and have their shapes sustained and their movements coordinated by magic. Drones, OTOH, only use magic as a source of power; they are assembled in factories and their movement depends on the little machines inside them.

And then there's the fact that the only thing ever confirmed to be a golem is directly controlled by the magic of its creator.

AFAIK, right now there are too few things we know about the mooks in the Garden of Time to decide whether they're golems or drones.
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Old 2011-11-20, 17:15   Link #2475
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Given that they were mobile generators of AMF? Doubtful they were magically powered. Even if it wouldn't shut them down completely it'd still interfere with their systems.
Given that in manga description of AMF it was given IIRC as magical field type spell...

PS. Also AMF don't affect direct energy transfer, but constructions from said energy.
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Old 2011-11-20, 18:10   Link #2476
Sunder the Gold
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Lindy was suppressing the dimensional disturbance itself.

Yeah, she's that awesome.
The same disturbance that kept them from going back to Midchilda, or was Midchilda suffering some other sort of dimensional storm?

The Arthra was perfectly capable of leaving Earth to go to the TSAB HQ, right after dropping off Nanoha and Yuuno, but they weren't able to take Yuuno back home to Mid.


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Well, it did end up making them stable. That's progress from "if a kitty touches it bad stuff will happen."
You don't chip off a tiny fragment of an automobile and expect that to DO anything.

A machine is designed to need all of its parts to work, or else it woudn't have all of those parts. Especially when someone went to the trouble (or felt a necessity) to make the device in the form of a crystal.
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Old 2011-11-20, 18:26   Link #2477
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Thing is, Lost Logia don't follow conventional physics. That's what makes them so dangerous to begin with.
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Old 2011-11-20, 21:17   Link #2478
Tiresias
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Given that in manga description of AMF it was given IIRC as magical field type spell...

PS. Also AMF don't affect direct energy transfer, but constructions from said energy.
Wait, so it's possible for a mage to cast an AMF? That's pretty useful
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Old 2011-11-20, 21:24   Link #2479
Akiyoshi
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Wait, so it's possible for a mage to cast an AMF? That's pretty useful
How exactly that would work?

AMF is an AoE zone that hamper the ability to perform mana-linking and work with any magic that come into the area covered by it. Even if it results to be a "spell" and thus able to be casted by a mage i'm pretty sure some conditions must be applied, like the caster not being properly able to use magic during the duration of the spell or casting a protective core-like barrier that protects itself from the effects of the AMF.
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Old 2011-11-20, 21:32   Link #2480
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I've always wondered, but can you control or focus AMF into a single spot instead of firing into every direction?
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