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Old 2011-11-21, 01:39   Link #2481
Sunder the Gold
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
I've always wondered, but can you control or focus AMF into a single spot instead of firing into every direction?
That might be what Bind Breaking, Field Breaking, and Barrier/Shield Piercing spells are all doing.

AMF may just be taking "decrease" magic and applying it to an area with a field, as opposed to a single spell.


As mentioned, theoretically a mage could create an AM Field, but he'd be unable to perform magic inside of it, and any allies would be likewise hindered.

It might be possible to stay outside of such a field while creating it, though -- in fact, that's what the Liese Twins' Crystal Cage allegedly did with Nanoha and Fate.

It wasn't a complete anti-magilink effect like in the Cradle, because they eventually broke free on their own, but it still slowed them down.


However, the Liese Twins' had to use a prepared, dedicated, one-shot Spell Device (the card) in order to cast spells like that, and Field Mages are rare. Only Yuuno and Shamal have shown the mastery of Field magic that might let them cast an AMF.

I mean, the TSAB guys had to work together to create a field the size of which Yuuno managed on his own.
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Old 2011-11-21, 08:28   Link #2482
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Technically speaking, the Hucks are mages that can cast an "AMF" kinda. And mages can cast a spell that seals magic; Chrono did that to the Liese twins.
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Old 2011-11-21, 10:47   Link #2483
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Sealing devices, on the other hand, I imagine works more like hacking into their CPUs and ordering them to shut down.
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Old 2011-11-21, 12:12   Link #2484
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Technically speaking, the Hucks are mages that can cast an "AMF" kinda. And mages can cast a spell that seals magic; Chrono did that to the Liese twins.
Yes and no. The supplementary material explicity denied the nature of an Eclipse Driver's power as "magic" calling it "energy" instead, you can argue that "energy" is just substitute word but that don't make sense since the term "magic" is still used in the descriptions of the AEC-Equipement and 5th Gen Devices supplemental material effectively refering to this "energy" as a non-magical powersource.

It's still an apparently supernatural force, tough. You can call it chii, ki, aura, oversoul, yoki/demonic energy, mutant power, celular energy, phychic, lifeforce, etc... but FORCE already dropped "magic" as an answer for that.

In regards to Chrono and the Lieze Twins i'll go with what Tiresias posted, they casted spells with effects similar to the AMF but in all cases the caster is at good distance from the center and radius of the spell while an AMF-caster must be right in the middle of the thing to make it work properly bringing with that the aformentioned hypotetical conditions and restrictions necessary to use such a tricky "spell".
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Old 2011-11-21, 14:57   Link #2485
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So a AMF always stops all forms of magic without discrimination ?
You can stop things like lights and radio waves completely or just partially.
Can`t you go disrupting only particular spells or spellcasters ?
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Old 2011-11-21, 15:33   Link #2486
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The trick with that is that it creates holes in your defense. Holes that enemies wielding advanced AI computer weapons can easily take advantage off. And with Belkans having the advantage that even without magic they still had weapons perfectly capable of killing their enemies, the choice would be obvious. AMF was designed to counter more conventional mages, such as Mid style, who would be rendered helpless to the physical attacks of the Belkans without their magic.
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Old 2011-11-21, 16:53   Link #2487
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Of course, Garea/Gallia apparently responded with the Marriage, who not only completely avoided that problem, but could also be made from the corpses of Belkan soldiers as easily as Garea citizens.

The Bible of the Silver Cross might have been the invention of another empire; how about the Dalgryn?
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Old 2011-11-21, 17:04   Link #2488
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
The Bible of the Silver Cross might have been the invention of another empire; how about the Dalgryn?
Not unlikely, maybe based on the Book of Darkness itself, there are various similitudes between both, except the Book of the Silver Cross and the Strosek seems to be less omni-destructive but at the same time more efficient in direct battle against other foes be mages, knights or marriage, the Eclipse Driver seems to be the ultimate living weapon and the dynamic coupled with the Book and the Strosek seems to reflect the one shared by the Master of the BoD, the Book and the Avatar of the Book(Reinforce), only more easy to control and even able to be replicated.

So, in escence, every Eclipse Driver equiped with a Divider/Book/Strosek combo is in theory as powerfull/Dangerous as the Master of the Book of Darkness itself(possibly even stronger taking into account their tremendous advantage over magic itself), which is probably one of the objetives of the project as also the reason for the cameo of Reinforce Eins at the beginning of FORCE and the glaringly obvious similitudes between her and the Stroseks.

No wonder why Tohma and Curren kicked butts left and right with such ease.
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Old 2011-11-21, 18:15   Link #2489
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Perhaps the maiming of the Tome of the Night Sky into the Book of Darkness was a deliberate prototype for the Bible of the Silver Cross, committed by a defector from Belka?

I get the impression that the Book and Wolkenritter kept turning up in the Belkan Empire and menacing their own country.
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Old 2011-11-21, 18:19   Link #2490
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Perhaps the maiming of the Tome of the Night Sky into the Book of Darkness was a deliberate prototype for the Bible of the Silver Cross, committed by a defector from Belka?
Plausible, and more likely the guy who attempted to do that died but someone else picked up the project and developed the Eclipse and the Silver Cross.

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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I get the impression that the Book and Wolkenritter kept turning up in the Belkan Empire and menacing their own country.
I don't think so, considering every appearance of the Book of Darkness ended with the destruction of a world i doubt they got many chances of terrorizing the same "country", however, it's not unlikely the Book and the Wolkenritter had menaced various planets within the territory of the Belkan Empire.
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Old 2011-11-21, 23:04   Link #2491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
every appearance of the Book of Darkness ended with the destruction of a world
Where is the source of this specific information?


Quote:
i doubt they got many chances of terrorizing the same "country", however, it's not unlikely the Book and the Wolkenritter had menaced various planets within the territory of the Belkan Empire.
What is an interstellar empire but an interstellar country?

If a country can exist across boundaries of water to include seperate landmasses, a country can exist across boundaries of space to include seperate planets or star systems.
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Old 2011-11-22, 05:52   Link #2492
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
I don't think so, considering every appearance of the Book of Darkness ended with the destruction of a world i doubt they got many chances of terrorizing the same "country", however, it's not unlikely the Book and the Wolkenritter had menaced various planets within the territory of the Belkan Empire.
Somehow I think that even the Book wouldn't make much headway trying to destroy a world as heavily militarized and magitechnologically advanced as the Belkan homeworld.
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Old 2011-11-22, 10:44   Link #2493
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Somehow I think that even the Book wouldn't make much headway trying to destroy a world as heavily militarized and magitechnologically advanced as the Belkan homeworld.
The Book itself don't have a voice in the descicion it's an automatic thing of the defense program, the Book can't decide to "not explode this time". Of course, if some of the Belkans found a way to banish the book to another world before the explosion it's another matter entirely.
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Old 2011-11-22, 11:49   Link #2494
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Where is the source of this specific information?
It was that, or Arc en Ciel the thing. But absorbing of the master and going boom was a fact repeated several times in A's and the manga's.

Reinforce could choose what master would be the next master, but she could not halt the berserk program any more than a broken computer can fix itself. And it's even worse than that line makes it seem, becayse even after Hayate pulled Reinforce from the cycle... by her very nature she would generate another repair program and start the cycle all over again.
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Old 2011-11-22, 12:15   Link #2495
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I remember that the Book goes on a rampage and probably self-restricts when it can't rampage any more. I was asking where the series tells us the Book could destroy a whole planet.

You have a point that the Arc-en-Ciel's city destroying collateral damage was considered less heinous, but that might have been compared to losing several cities or just a chunk of the island, rather than even half of the planet, let alone the whole thing.

BTW, anyone else flashing to BlazBlue's Black Beast? Maybe the energy the Huckebein run on is Seithr? It's just as powerful, versatile, and poisonous.
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Old 2011-11-22, 12:27   Link #2496
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
Reinforce could choose what master would be the next master, but she could not halt the berserk program any more than a broken computer can fix itself.
How that works, Reinforce choose the master before the travel? or it firsts go to the new world and then she chooses someone? What's the criteria for the selection? I asked this because it's pretty rare to choose Hayate if Reinforce can choose the master, as for what i know, Reinforce, unlike the Wolkenritter, is fully counscious of the unavoidable destiny of the master which makes even stranger that she chooses someone she actually likes and comdemn her to an impending doom. Of course, there's also Graham and whatever method he used to manipulate the selection xDU.
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Old 2011-11-22, 12:28   Link #2497
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I remember that the Book goes on a rampage and probably self-restricts when it can't rampage any more. I was asking where the series tells us the Book could destroy a whole planet.

You have a point that the Arc-en-Ciel's city destroying collateral damage was considered less heinous, but that might have been compared to losing several cities or just a chunk of the island, rather than even half of the planet, let alone the whole thing.
A's 4, the book of darkness creates dimensional disturbances once completed. In S1 we learned these things are enough to destroy worlds and are even enough to create trouble on other worlds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
How that works, Reinforce choose the master before the travel? or it firsts go to the new world and then she chooses someone? What's the criteria for the selection? I asked this because it's pretty rare to choose Hayate if Reinforce can choose the master, as for what i know, Reinforce, unlike the Wolkenritter, is fully counscious of the unavoidable destiny of the master which makes even stranger that she chooses someone she actually likes and comdemn her to an impending doom. Of course, there's also Graham and whatever method he used to manipulate the selection xDU.
Sound stages explain that more closely, but basically Reinforce is still in a lot control, she just can't stop the going berserk bit. Whoever the next master is is purely dependent on her will an whims. She chose Hayate because she and the knights tired of masters who used them as weapons.

Graham didn't manipulate nothing, he just found out Hayate was the master before anyone else.
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Old 2011-11-22, 16:23   Link #2498
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She chose Hayate because she and the knights tired of masters who used them as weapons.
They must have been tired of that ages ago, so why didn't she try choosing a little girl sooner?

Unless it wasn't so much a matter of "trying", with the idea that someone might finally reach the controls before the Defense Program took over...

Are you suggesting that the Book was so tired of seeing her Knights abused that she was willing to condemn a little girl to be killed by the Defense Program?
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Old 2011-11-22, 16:43   Link #2499
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And herself being abused. But yes, pretty much.
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Old 2011-11-23, 07:01   Link #2500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Of course, there's also Graham and whatever method he used to manipulate the selection xDU.
Cut The BULLSHIT please? Because he never did.
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PPS. Proud Athrun/Cagalli/Meyrin shipper.
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