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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 19 Rating
Perfect 10 23 31.94%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 27 37.50%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 11 15.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 6.94%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 4.17%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 4.17%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-11-23, 04:29   Link #101
risingstar3110
The sexy Kongou
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
That's different IMO. I get that your family is supposed to be there for you, to help you when you need to, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. But that's not was Himari was doing. Since the Triple-H thing didn't work out, Himari was using her family as a means of self-validation. To put it bluntly, if Himari isn't part of Triple-H she feels her life has no purpose (the novel makes that pretty clear), so she looks for validation (purpose) in keeping her family together.

Like I said, that's totally difference than relying on your family from time to time.
She's only 14(or was it 12?) through, psychologically speaking, it's completely normal for girls at that age to still completely depending on family while dreaming and found their life purpose in somewhere else. My point is, I don't think it's valid to take her mindset on Triple-H and her family, to conclude that she will behave the same to her fated person, and she will always run away to somewhere else instead of facing her problem.

I means when her family seems not be able to save her (Tabuki's incident), she didn't wishes that her knight will come to save her somehow (the way Ringo did). But planned to face it head on. So i think the family has always been her last stronghold.... until the recent development at least (that's why i say it's too early to tell)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
But she didn't. Remember that she didn't have the courage to send the mufflers. Sanetoshi did it, defeating the purpose of making them in the first place.

I do think that instead of hiding herself in her "fated love" she should try to meet Hibari and Hikari and find some closure with them. Maybe even rekindle their friendship. That's what she really wants to do after all.

But she obviously doesn't have the courage for that. If she did, we probably wouldn't have much story to tell.
I don't think the purpose was completely defeated. She clearly showed the intention, and got most of the works done to send it. It was just a moment of discourage that she disbanded the thought.

I means that's a not an easy decision to make, and if she needs someone to pat on her back to follow it till the end; that does not mean she is always a coward and run away when facing problems
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Old 2011-11-23, 04:49   Link #102
Kazu-kun
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
She's only 14(or was it 12?) through, psychologically speaking, it's completely normal for girls at that age to still completely depending on family while dreaming and found their life purpose in somewhere else. My point is, I don't think it's valid to take her mindset on Triple-H and her family, to conclude that she will behave the same to her fated person, and she will always run away to somewhere else instead of facing her problem.
Her dream crumbled when her parents ran away. From that point she lost everything except her brothers, so yeah, it's natural for her to become totally dependant on them. But just because it's to be expected in that situation, it doesn't mean it's not a problem.

The point is that Himari is 14 and she's still looking for external validation. She's still running away, and I bet you whatever you want that using her "fated one" to avoid facing reality will end up triggering the climax of the story. Mark my words: shit is going to start getting serious in episode 21.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
I don't think the purpose was completely defeated. She clearly showed the intention, and got most of the works done to send it. It was just a moment of discourage that she disbanded the thought.
Even if it's just a moment of discourage, it still shows the fundamental weakness to her character. If she can't even manage to do that, let alone trying to meet them and patching things up with them.
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Old 2011-11-23, 06:42   Link #103
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Her dream crumbled when her parents ran away. From that point she lost everything except her brothers, so yeah, it's natural for her to become totally dependant on them. But just because it's to be expected in that situation, it doesn't mean it's not a problem.

The point is that Himari is 14 and she's still looking for external validation. She's still running away, and I bet you whatever you want that using her "fated one" to avoid facing reality will end up triggering the climax of the story. Mark my words: shit is going to start getting serious in episode 21.
What if her fated one (Shouma) is the center of her reality and also the center of this story?

I think you have been emphasizing too much on how Himari meeting up with her friends is the solution that Himari must overcome. Remember the "super frog saving Tokyo" episode, and what Sanetoshi asked her? We still do not know what distanced her from her friends. I knows we can assume that:
  • Himari is a less extreme case of Shouma, isolated herself away due to her guilt
  • It's just her shame that prevent her from meeting up the now successful friends (which she might have been a part of)
But what if the thing prevented her from contacting her friends, was not her being cowards, but of the incredible will to sacrifice her relations with her two best friends for their successes. What if she has always feared that the news of Double-H being best friend with the daughter of a mass murdering terrorists, will prevent or kill her friends' career. What if it was her weakness (instead of her courage) that drove her to longing for her friend in the first place. Would you then still call her coward?

I think you not only didn't consider her young age but also has been too underestimating Himari. This girl has been facing illness and death since as early as ten years old, while being isolated and despised by the society. But then she still could find the will to be cheerful and live her life, just so her brothers don't have to worry. After all, have one faced death, the fear of things like shames or pride would hardly be matter. If she runs away at every sight of troubles like you say, she would has been bedridden and isolated herself within the four hospital walls.
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Old 2011-11-23, 07:39   Link #104
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
What if her fated one (Shouma) is the center of her reality and also the center of this story?
Was't Momoka the center of Yuri's and Tabuki's reality too? And what happened when she was no longer with them? Their world crumbled, because it's unhealthy to depend that much on someone else to give meaning to your life.

The way I see it, the whole concept of "fated love" in this show is build on the idea of avoiding reality and depending on someone else's acceptance for self-validation. More than depicting this concept as romantic, the show seems to treat it almost ironically.

I have no reason to believe Himari's case is different. In fact, everything seems to point that is more of the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by risingstar3110 View Post
But what if the thing prevented her from contacting her friends, was not her being cowards, but of the incredible will to sacrifice her relations with her two best friends for their successes. What if she has always feared that the news of Double-H being best friend with the daughter of a mass murdering terrorists, will prevent or kill her friends' career. What if it was her weakness (instead of her courage) that drove her to longing for her friend in the first place. Would you then still call her coward?
I doubt it. The eraser thrown at her from the school window, and the fact that Hibari and Hikari were looking from the window, I think it symbolize that she was drawn away from everything that was important to her: school, her friends, and her dream. I definitely don't think that she cut contact with them on her own.

Anyway, I'm pretty convinced now that the recent developments surrendering Himari are going to trigger the climax, so just wait and see. If I'm right, this is going to be a hell of a roller coaster, specially when/if it's revealed that Sanetoshi wanted/needed Himari to remember her "fated one" all along for his plan to work.
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Old 2011-11-24, 00:07   Link #105
risingstar3110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Was't Momoka the center of Yuri's and Tabuki's reality too? And what happened when she was no longer with them? Their world crumbled, because it's unhealthy to depend that much on someone else to give meaning to your life.

The way I see it, the whole concept of "fated love" in this show is build on the idea of avoiding reality and depending on someone else's acceptance for self-validation. More than depicting this concept as romantic, the show seems to treat it almost ironically.

I have no reason to believe Himari's case is different. In fact, everything seems to point that is more of the same thing.
The problem here is you kept comparing Himari's case with Yuri's and Tabuki's, and expected Himari will turn batshit if she does not give up on her fated one. The nature of both have showed to be different. Momoko saved both Tabuki and Yuri and acted more as their idol or saviour rather than someone connecting by fated. Yuri was haunted by the idea of fate because Momoka clearly stated that Yuri fate was changed, that's why she even consider what bring her and Tabuki together was also this fate. But the truth is: Momoka is not their 'fated one' and is not considered as one. In fact, Yuri think her as "the only one who truely love me/ think me beautiful", while Tabuki consider Momoko as the only light in this world.

The case of Himari is different. Shouma didn't actually save Himari from anything, or at least it's just secondary. What he did was sharing the (fruit of) fate with her and therefore is the only true 'fated person' in this anime. That does not necessary will turn to romantic development (maybe for some confusing moments till near the very end), as it's still possible for siblings to be brought together by fates

In short: Yuri and Tabuki's "fated one"is simply like Ringo's, a romantic manner of speak to indicate someone they clearly love and should be connected by destiny. While Himari and Shouma is simply connected by the fate of the system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I doubt it. The eraser thrown at her from the school window, and the fact that Hibari and Hikari were looking from the window, I think it symbolize that she was drawn away from everything that was important to her: school, her friends, and her dream. I definitely don't think that she cut contact with them on her own.

Anyway, I'm pretty convinced now that the recent developments surrendering Himari are going to trigger the climax, so just wait and see. If I'm right, this is going to be a hell of a roller coaster, specially when/if it's revealed that Sanetoshi wanted/needed Himari to remember her "fated one" all along for his plan to work.
Deal.

If staying away from her friend is a sight of weakness that she want to and will have to overcome, you win this round. If not (she sacrifice her contact for the friends career), you have to vote for little Himari in the coming favourite character poll
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Old 2011-11-24, 11:11   Link #106
ninryu
It's yuri, bitches
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Israel
Age: 18
I wonder why the hell Kanba lied about knowing where his parents are. Smells pretty fishy.

Ffff, just when I thought Kanba and Himari could be together because they aren't siblings - Himari decides Shou is her soulmate. The hell?!
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Old 2011-12-05, 01:42   Link #107
4Tran
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Join Date: Dec 2005
I haven't been posting in this subforum because I've been trying to digest all the stuff that's been shown in the last few episodes. It's also to avoid the redundant "Amazing episode for an amazing show" raving that'd I'd constantly have to write.

There are three little bits that I found particularly noteworthy. The first is the scenes with Yuri in them. In a show where people lie all the time, their actions can sometimes tell us a lot more about them than their conversations can. And sometimes, even a simple line like the one Yuri uttered can mean so much.

The second moment came when Masako tried to shoot Himari with the memory ball. At that point, I wanted her to succeed. It's not a matter of wanting Himari to come to harm. Instead, I was just so invested in the story that I wanted to know what had happened.

The last was when Himari ran up to the wall with the fans. Right then, I felt exactly the same as Himari. The same sense of realization, the same sense of dread. It's really rare for a show to build up that much resonance - it's a real accomplishment.
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