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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 20 Rating
Perfect 10 30 46.15%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 24 36.92%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 6 9.23%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 3.08%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 3.08%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.54%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-11-24, 00:11   Link #1
Kairin
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Penguin Drum - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

Welcome to the discussion thread for Penguin Drum, Episode 20.

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Old 2011-11-24, 07:56   Link #2
Crontica
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I was watching Ergo Proxy episode 11 and it appeared to mirror the episode where Himari first went into the library a lot.
What the hell does a library got to do with you searching for answers and or losing your memories?
It also makes me believe that Satonashi is making sure that Himari doesn't meet a pleasant end.
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Old 2011-11-24, 12:35   Link #3
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Old 2011-11-24, 12:46   Link #4
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Ok, interesting episode. This is what I gathered from it. Audio was Keyhole quality so I'm not sure about any of this .

Spoiler for ep20:
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-11-24 at 15:32.
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Old 2011-11-24, 14:37   Link #5
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Don't know if this is old or not, but was it true that Ikehura tweeted that
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Old 2011-11-24, 14:40   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yumii-chan View Post
Don't know if this is old or not, but was it true that Ikehura tweeted that
Spoiler for spoilers:
Where did you hear this? I don't think it's true, because...
Spoiler for ep20:
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-11-24 at 15:20.
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Old 2011-11-24, 15:19   Link #7
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Why everytime this anime goes like it will present us with some answer it automatically ends up raising more question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Spoiler for ep20:
Episode start: Pingroup, later on : Kiga
I'm really curious to know why the group changed. They seem to utter the same stuff (the world is wrong, we have to change it etc) but could it be they don't exactly seek the same goal? Or did their methods changed?
Kenzan looks like he is the leader of Pingforce, while Masako, Mario (and Kenban)'s father, the heir of Nastume corp. is a member of Kiga, possibly their leader.
I wonder why there are two distinct groups when they both seem to have the same goal. Could one of them be more extreme than the other? (That would be Kiga imo).

The Himari&Shou flashback was nicely done. Not sure what to think of the Adam&Eve analogy, though I expected it somehow. Now will try to watch the rest of the serie without focusing too much on the (very) sexual meaning of those apples .
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Old 2011-11-24, 15:20   Link #8
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EDIT: I was re-watching a better raw so wanted to update my first post

Spoiler for ep20:
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Old 2011-11-24, 15:34   Link #9
Nina.Wolken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
EDIT:
There's a lot of talking about "being chosen" going on. Only the "chosen ones" are worth something and have the right to live, everyone else it's unneeded. That's why when Shouma goes into the Broiler for Himari she says "thank you for chosen me". Basically she's ascribing her worth as a person to Shouma's decision. This is all terribly misguided: your worth as a person depends entirely on you and you alone. Is Himari another Tabuki in the making?[/spoiler]

If you take that scene : + this one :
Add over it various talk about about being among the chosen ones or not...
Risks of Final Solution imho .

Whatever the Child Boiler really is intended to symbolize, it does serve the same function as a concentration camps (concentration hangar ?) : gather people you deem unworthy to live in your society and make them disappear.
Not saying both are the same things of course but they do have strong similarities.
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Old 2011-11-24, 15:44   Link #10
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken View Post
If you take that scene : + this one :
Add over it various talk about about being among the chosen ones or not...
Risks of Final Solution imho .
I think you're taking it too literal. I mean, Himari was abandoned and all alone for a few days, but it wasn't until she realized/thought that she was alone, that she was "taken" into the Broiler. I think in reality she got "there" on her own, because of her own lack of self-worth.

I think KIGA's intentions are somewhat noble but misguided, like Akio's at first. They want to create a world when everyone is equal I think, where nobody has to suffer the harshness of this world (a world where, metaphorically speaking, nobody would end up in the Broiler)....

Thing is, the world is harsh, and it's up to you to make it a better place. Trying to change the world at large, and through terrorist attacks no less... well, it's not the brightest of ideas

EDIT: It should be noted that Sanetoshi, who is the real leader behind Kensan's terrorist organization, keeps pressuring Himari to realize her feelings for Shouma. Considering this, I'm starting to believe that Himari and Shouma's "love" needs to be consummated (whatever that means) for KIGA and Sanetoshi's plan to come to fruition.

This also explains why the PotC was keeping Shouma out of the loop, since she seems to be against Sanetoshi and KIGA.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-11-24 at 16:39.
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Old 2011-11-24, 17:15   Link #11
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After two episodes or rather disappointing directions, it was great to see the show back on track again.
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-11-24, 17:22   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auria View Post
@Kazu-kun the Takakura father spoke about chosen and unchosen ones in his beginning speech as well. Another reason to see the child broiler connected to the organization
I think it's the other way around. He says the world it's "wrong" because (amount other things) such a thing as "chosen and unchosen" people exists. The way I see it, his organization is against that. He wants to make a world where everyone can be equally happy.

It's all metaphorical though. It's not that there's someone literally "choosing" people (probably ).
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Old 2011-11-24, 18:00   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I think it's the other way around. He says the world it's "wrong" because (amount other things) such a thing as "chosen and unchosen" people exists. The way I see it, his organization is against that. He wants to make a world where everyone can be equally happy.

It's all metaphorical though. It's not that there's someone literally "choosing" people (probably ).
I didn't want to imply a bad connection by using "connection". The connection was more meant like they could be actively working against it, so the Takakura dad has deeper knowledge about it, but in the Pengu Universum it could be that every adult gains this metaphorical knowledge somewhen, oh my. I agree that the Takakura dad seemed to be standing up against it, hence the speech at the beginning.
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Old 2011-11-24, 18:38   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auria View Post
I didn't want to imply a bad connection by using "connection".
I see. Sorry about that then.


On another note, rewatching this episode (for the 3rd time now) suddenly makes me realize that pretty much everyone in this show, except Ringo, is delusional or at least misguided in some way. It's kind of scary actually, because you don't know who to root for (and I'm not talking about pairings).

Do I want Sanetoshi and Kensan to blow up the world to pieces in order to save it? No, absolutely not.

Do I want the brothers to use Momoka's diary to make a world/fate that would be easier on them, where Himari could be the idol she wants to be and everyone could be happy and so on? Not at all, because that would mean all the weak and misguided characters are still weak and misguided.

What I really want is what Ringo, the only sane character in the show, proposed back in episode 18. I want everyone to accept their fate, even if it's a bitch and sucks, become stronger and move on. It's time for these characters, specially the Takakuras, to grow the fuck up, I think.

Utena was such a great series because it showed that the real revolution of the world is an inner revolution. It's not about making a world that's easier on you, it's about changing yourself to become stronger and a better person.

Penguindrum isn't Utena, I know, but it's still kinda relevant since the themes are pretty much the same.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-11-24 at 21:31.
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Old 2011-11-24, 20:32   Link #15
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Spoiler for about initial scene in episode 20:


I wish I would be able to speak english better.
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Old 2011-11-24, 21:52   Link #16
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Kanba changed his mind pretty quickly.
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Old 2011-11-24, 21:56   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It should be noted that Sanetoshi, who is the real leader behind Kensan's terrorist organization, keeps pressuring Himari to realize her feelings for Shouma. Considering this, I'm starting to believe that Himari and Shouma's "love" needs to be consummated (whatever that means) for KIGA and Sanetoshi's plan to come to fruition.

This also explains why the PotC was keeping Shouma out of the loop, since she seems to be against Sanetoshi and KIGA.
I haven't watched the episode yet but this is what I guessed last week

I saw some people (or a certain person) saying Shouma being Himari's "fated one" was pulled out of nowhere but I said that the fact that the POC was dropping Shouma out of the survival strategies was the biggest clue of all.

Still need to watch the episode so I really should not be in this thread
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Old 2011-11-24, 22:04   Link #18
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The flashback was well done. Interesting that Shouma actually remembers everything. So now only Kanba doesn't remember the real past. I hope doesn't end up turning on Shouma. Wonder why the changed the name of the organization. Also wonder how Ringo will play into all of this now.
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Old 2011-11-24, 22:20   Link #19
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ars89 View Post
So now only Kanba doesn't remember the real past.
I think he always knew. It's heavily implied at the very least.

EDIT: Subs are available. Not GG's, but a leaked release. Don't know if the torrent is still up though.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-11-24 at 23:05.
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Old 2011-11-24, 23:29   Link #20
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So KIGA is the new name of the Penguin Force. It should've been obvious, seeing as Aum changed their name too.
I don't think Kanba, and Kenzan for that matter, are evil. Well, uh, at least not completely. They just have - ah - questionable methods of doing things for the greater good. After all he is against the child broiler.
Sanetoshi is confusing me as always.
Himari and Shouma are olev.

What really stood out this episode, though, was the music.. that track, oh my goodness.
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