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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 49 38.28%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 41 32.03%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 29 22.66%
7 out of 10 : Good 6 4.69%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 0.78%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 1.56%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-11-23, 19:29   Link #201
Ragna92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kallen4life View Post
it's painfully obvious to me how Servant scenes suffer immensely from the lack of Rider/Gil/Berserker in them (preferably Gil vs Berserker)


humans in 08 >>>>>>>>>>>> Servants



dat bullet, dat Kirei ! wow
I'm hoping the second season shows much more of Gil, Berserker, and Rider. When it comes to the servants they really make the show IMO.
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Old 2011-11-24, 00:14   Link #202
Kagayaki
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Sometimes certain events should happen simply to aid the immersion value to the story, to make it easier for readers or viewers to "buy into".

I'm not talking about realism, per se, but rather events unfolding in a way that feels authentic, coherent, and natural. In other words, the opposite of cheap, contrived, copping out.
I think I worry less, relative to many posters around here, about things like suspension of disbelief. From my point of view, the details of Caster's escape could've been done better (as ChronoReverse has explained), but I have no problem with the fact that he and Kayneth are still alive, since I don't see the point in killing them now. I guess everyone looks for different things in their anime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
On the whole, I think that Fate/Zero is a more well-written and enjoyable watch than Mirai Nikki, but in this one specific area (how the plot progresses the "survival game"), I honestly think that Mirai Nikki is doing a better job of things thus far. In Mirai Nikki, competitors get eliminated at a rate that I find easier to buy into than what we've seen in Fate/Zero's Holy Grail war thus far.
Maybe part of the difference here is that Mirai Nikki has a plot layout typical of a manga, meaning shorter, more self-contained plot arcs. When the time came to adapt it to anime, Mirai Nikki's plotline was already optimized for enjoyment in small, widely spaced chunks.

Fate/Zero, being a 4-volume LN, has a more interwoven plot, one which works better when read in larger chunks. Realizing that, the producers are releasing a boxset rather than individual BD volumes. Whether these were good decisions and whether they should've rewritten things to better suit a weekly airing schedule are open questions. I suspect that people who marathon Fate/Zero after each cour is finished might have a better viewing experience.

We have different perspectives on both these shows because you're watching them unspoiled, whereas I've read the sources. So it's fun for me to hear what you and other non-LN/manga readers have to say

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, I don't think that Fate/Zero is simply meant to appeal to fans of horror and tragedy. It's largely meant to appeal to fans of the Fate/Stay Night anime, the Fate/Stay Night VN, the Fate/Zero LN, and Type Moon/Nasuverse fans in general.

[...]

Personally, I'm fine with Fate/Zero being dark, but that's not the main reason I'm watching the show. I'm hoping for an "epic story" (and this is where immersion value is important to me), I am fond of some of the characters (Saber is important here), and I do look to this anime for great action scenes (and here, constant death-defying can become tiresome after awhile).
I agree with everything you said here. The visuals, the action, and the continuity porn are probably big draws for a lot of viewers. Also, I didn't mean to imply it was aimed at Gen fans (Is that a big demographic? ) rather than Type Moon fans.

I probably misphrased what I was trying to say. I was responding to Rethice, who commented that he had expected more ruthlessness from Gen. My point was that the ruthlessness in Fate/Zero comes from how it breaks down the characters rather than how it unpredictably kills them.


Since we're on the topic of Fate/Zero's authorship, here's at least part of the story, for anyone who's curious:

According to Nasu (Vol 1, Postface 2), he and Takeuchi approached Gen about writing something for the game Fate/Hollow Ataraxia (they had several authors on that project). Instead, Gen proposed writing about the 4th Grail War, and asked Nasu what specifically it should be about.

Nasu thought this was a great idea, and told him: (The adaptation has long since passed the end of Vol 1, so Nasu doesn't think this counts as a spoiler. Your mileage may vary.)
Spoiler for F/Z general ideas, but no specific events:
Beyond that, he told Gen to do as he wanted. Gen said he would try to match the writing style to that of Fate/Stay Night, and they did collaborate on drafts past that point.
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Old 2011-11-24, 00:41   Link #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kagayaki View Post
Maybe part of the difference here is that Mirai Nikki has a plot layout typical of a manga, meaning shorter, more self-contained plot arcs. When the time came to adapt it to anime, Mirai Nikki's plotline was already optimized for enjoyment in small, widely spaced chunks.

Fate/Zero, being a 4-volume LN, has a more interwoven plot, one which works better when read in larger chunks. Realizing that, the producers are releasing a boxset rather than individual BD volumes. Whether these were good decisions and whether they should've rewritten things to better suit a weekly airing schedule are open questions. I suspect that people who marathon Fate/Zero after each cour is finished might have a better viewing experience.


I probably misphrased what I was trying to say. I was responding to Rethice, who commented that he had expected more ruthlessness from Gen. My point was that the ruthlessness in Fate/Zero comes from how it breaks down the characters rather than how it unpredictably kills them.
Those are all fair points.

However, I've sincerely enjoyed talking about Fate/Zero episodes, particularly the past few, so I'll probably stick to weekly viewing for now.

I also think that ufotable has done a largely commendable job thus far in how it has broken up the narrative into weekly 20-something minute animated chunks. Most episodes have had a good cliffhanger feel to them, imo.


As for boxset vs. separate volumes, that's an interesting question with a lot of variables to it. A lot of anime shows, and even some hit anime shows, have substantial sales drops after the first volume, and going with a boxset release over a standard volume-based release negates this possible problem entirely for Fate/Zero. On the other hand, selling an anime in a boxset bulk probably means less profit per episode per sale than a volume approach, though I don't know for sure.

On the whole, it was probably a wise sales approach for Fate/Zero, particularly given the factors you mentioned.
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Old 2011-11-24, 12:51   Link #204
Terminator98
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*Watches the episode*

HOLY ELF/DRAGON/COW/etc... KOTOMINE HAS REGAINED HIS HEAVEN FEEL'S CHUCK NORRIS STATUS.

Priests are badarse.

Ahem, caps. But yes, seeing him wtf pwn two main characters (welll, Maya, she's on the MC team) was priceless... and him mercilessly beating up women o.o
Also, I felt the pain with Iri as well, the scene was very well executed as one said earlier.
As for Kiritsugu vs Kayneth, yes, guns win once again. Brilliant display on how pride and thinking that every opponent fights clean will certainly bring one down.

Can't wait for the next episode.

P.S: For those saying that Master Fights >>> Servant Fights, there is still not as much awesome when there is Gill/Berserker/Rider in the area... can't wait for these three to get more actual screentime blowing stuff up.

And yes, epic music from Kajiura as always


edit: As for the rating, I can't really complain... I'm a big FSN fan and anything that's related to FSN I will give out a 10/10 (yes, I even put up with the anime that I know isn't that great when compared to the VN, but I still can't stop praising it o.o).
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Old 2011-11-24, 22:58   Link #205
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Voted this episode a 6. Not sure why I'm supposed to even care about any of these fights since no one ever dies. Are they all gonna hold hands and sing Christmas carols at the end of the series?
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Old 2011-11-24, 23:04   Link #206
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No one has to die yet.
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Old 2011-11-24, 23:08   Link #207
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Originally Posted by OliverTwist View Post
Not sure why I'm supposed to even care about any of these fights since no one ever dies.
Why do they need to die?

Plus, it won't be long before F/Z shows its true colours...
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Old 2011-11-25, 00:20   Link #208
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Voted this episode a 6. Not sure why I'm supposed to even care about any of these fights since no one ever dies. Are they all gonna hold hands and sing Christmas carols at the end of the series?
Just because characters are surviving now doesn't mean they wont be at risk later. You'd have no time for character development if key characters were being killed left and right this early into the show.
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Old 2011-11-25, 00:24   Link #209
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Seriously, has it come down to this? Dead chars = good anime?

=.=

Even stories where everyone lives can be entertaining. Look at Batman and the Joker. No one has died yet (or they had Disney deaths), yet these two are still as entertaining as ever.
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Old 2011-11-25, 00:48   Link #210
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Originally Posted by molitar View Post
I am really hating Fate Zero.. too damn dark compared to Fate/Stay Night.. and fuck! I hate this Kirei doesn't get killed in this season sucks so fucking bad! He in my book is the ULTIMATE DAMN EVIL! Ilya only used a binding magic that is about all she knew and how to be kind.. she was no threat to him but the EVIL FUCKER killed her for no damn reason at all! And he is a damn coward! Pretending to be dead so he can use the Church to hide and attack like a damn coward! Killing the weak! And defiling the name of God pretending to be a priest! He could be the anti christ himself he is so damn evil!

NO ONE is more damn evil than HIM because he hides behind a false face! Even the insane one killing children was not as evil because he did not pretend to be something he was not! The one that SHOULD DIE survives which ruins this whole season for me knowing someone as evil and two faced as him survived!

I hate bad ending Anime so I may just have to stop watching this one before it gets worse.. I loved Fate/Stay Night their was more honor among the contestants and civility not all this back stabbing, back biting, petty killing anyone just to kill as this one was. Might as go watch a stupid slasher movie where the killer always catches up to the ones running when the killer is lame.. that is the way this anime is going for me. I feel like I'm watching one of them stupid horror movies than an anime where the Heroic Spirits fight with the honor they have as Heroic Spirits. Ugg.. I was so looking forward to this anime but if I had seen this one first I would have never watched Fate/Stay Night it's so twisted and sick compared to the first one.
This just shows how innocent you are. If you think Fate/Stay Night is not dark, think again. You have just watched a bad anime adaptation. Like others said, play the actual game itself to feel what is truly dark.

---------------------------------------------------------------

And while they didn't die this episode. that doesn't mean they won't die later. And heck, what's with dying being all the more exciting anyway? It's the story and character development that's important!
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Old 2011-11-25, 01:35   Link #211
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Originally Posted by Terminator98 View Post
Seriously, has it come down to this? Dead chars = good anime?

=.=

Even stories where everyone lives can be entertaining. Look at Batman and the Joker. No one has died yet (or they had Disney deaths), yet these two are still as entertaining as ever.
Isn't the whole point of this anime that only one hero lives to get the grail? If yes, then I do think dead chars = good anime.

As for Batman, well you may be entertained by him never killing Joker, but I doubt all of the people Joker has and continues to kill would feel the same.

Last edited by OliverTwist; 2011-11-25 at 01:50.
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Old 2011-11-25, 01:46   Link #212
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This just shows how innocent you are. If you think Fate/Stay Night is not dark, think again. You have just watched a bad anime adaptation.
Yes, and this is AnimeSuki not VisualNovelSuki.

It's perfectly legitimate for an anime fan on this board to compare Fate/Zero the anime to Fate/Stay Night the anime.

I think that molitar is overreacting a bit, but it's perfectly fair to say that Fate/Stay Night the anime wasn't that dark, and hence it drew in many anime fans that aren't particularly into dark material.

And now some of those same fans are back for Fate/Zero, and some dislike the far darker tone. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody that there are some viewers like that.

I myself was initially taken aback by just how different Fate/Zero is from Fate/Stay Night the anime. Since then I've pretty much adjusted to the difference, but I can see how some viewers would find that hard to do.
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Old 2011-11-25, 01:48   Link #213
Marik
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The main characters are very strong and their servants too, so enjoy the anime as long as you can. Believe me, Fate Zero is one of the best anime for Fall 2011.
So far we saw how strong is Emiya kiritsugu and we also saw Kotomine Kirei.

So imagine what would happen when Emiya kiritsugu and Kotomine Kirei meet.
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Old 2011-11-25, 04:00   Link #214
Terminator98
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Originally Posted by OliverTwist View Post
Isn't the whole point of this anime that only one hero lives to get the grail? If yes, then I do think dead chars = good anime.

As for Batman, well you may be entertained by him never killing Joker, but I doubt all of the people Joker has and continues to kill would feel the same.
Well, F/Z's joker (Caster Team) has killed quite a nice ammount of children already.

But I'm not saying that no one should die, I'm just a bit sad to see that there's so much will to see someone die. Can't you let them have some more development and screentime? MORE DRAMA. MORE AWESOMENESS, AND AN AWESOME WAY TO BE SENT OFF?

Well, Kayneth pretty much had the possibility of being sent off in an awesome way by Kiritsugu, but it just didn't feel right for Lancer to be removed from the game at that stage of hte game. He needs to do more first before being able to bite the dust.

Also... not EVERYONE has to die (even though, we do know that it's Urobuchi that we're speakin of here...) in the Holy Grail War. Only SERVANTS have to get taken out.
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Old 2011-11-25, 06:12   Link #215
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Found this on Bilibili.tv .
今朝健身晨跑步,人妻小三来挡路。 淫丝钢弹缠我住,无奈转身干大树。

Went jogging early morning today.
House wife and mistress blocked my way.
Tied up by the silver threads and (shot by) iron bullets,
I got no choice but to do the tree.

Note: the character 淫(lewd) and 銀(silver) have the same pronunciation.

Last edited by Tom Bombadil; 2011-11-25 at 11:06. Reason: corrected.
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Old 2011-11-25, 09:46   Link #216
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淫(lude)
Lewd, not lude. Had to look kanji up to see what you were talking about.

Still, that's pretty funny.
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Old 2011-11-25, 12:06   Link #217
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Yes, and this is AnimeSuki not VisualNovelSuki.

It's perfectly legitimate for an anime fan on this board to compare Fate/Zero the anime to Fate/Stay Night the anime.

I think that molitar is overreacting a bit, but it's perfectly fair to say that Fate/Stay Night the anime wasn't that dark, and hence it drew in many anime fans that aren't particularly into dark material.

And now some of those same fans are back for Fate/Zero, and some dislike the far darker tone. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody that there are some viewers like that.

I myself was initially taken aback by just how different Fate/Zero is from Fate/Stay Night the anime. Since then I've pretty much adjusted to the difference, but I can see how some viewers would find that hard to do.
That's why many of us are telling him/her that the FSN anime was just a bad adaptation.
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Old 2011-11-25, 16:14   Link #218
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Originally Posted by molitar View Post
I am really hating Fate Zero.. too damn dark compared to Fate/Stay Night.. and fuck! I hate this Kirei doesn't get killed in this season sucks so fucking bad! He in my book is the ULTIMATE DAMN EVIL! Ilya only used a binding magic that is about all she knew and how to be kind.. she was no threat to him but the EVIL FUCKER killed her for no damn reason at all! And he is a damn coward! Pretending to be dead so he can use the Church to hide and attack like a damn coward! Killing the weak! And defiling the name of God pretending to be a priest! He could be the anti christ himself he is so damn evil!

NO ONE is more damn evil than HIM because he hides behind a false face! Even the insane one killing children was not as evil because he did not pretend to be something he was not! The one that SHOULD DIE survives which ruins this whole season for me knowing someone as evil and two faced as him survived!

I hate bad ending Anime so I may just have to stop watching this one before it gets worse.. I loved Fate/Stay Night their was more honor among the contestants and civility not all this back stabbing, back biting, petty killing anyone just to kill as this one was. Might as go watch a stupid slasher movie where the killer always catches up to the ones running when the killer is lame.. that is the way this anime is going for me. I feel like I'm watching one of them stupid horror movies than an anime where the Heroic Spirits fight with the honor they have as Heroic Spirits. Ugg.. I was so looking forward to this anime but if I had seen this one first I would have never watched Fate/Stay Night it's so twisted and sick compared to the first one.
Ultimate evil? Irisviel and Maiya chose to try and kill him off before he could get to Kiritsugu. They could have avoided him, but Irisviel was the one who said they should finish him, so I'm not sure where you got this idea that all she knows is how to be kind. Iris bound him to the tree and asked Maiya to pick up her gun and shoot him in the head. Kotomine specifically said that his target was not Irisviel or Maiya. His actions were of self defense, so I'm also not sure why you're hating on him so much when he didn't kill any of them.

Sure, he pretended to be dead and "attacked like a damn coward", but you're completely ignoring the fact that Maiya and Iris did the exact same thing. They used an illusion to try and snipe him from different sides while hiding themselves. If that's not as "cowardly" as Kotomine using a feint to lure Maiya out, then I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Like others here have said, you have no idea what FSN is really like if you've just watched the crappy DEEN adaptation. This is WAR. People will do anything to keep themselves alive and kill other people because that's what war IS. The strong overpowering the weak is just how things are. This is not a "stupid slasher movie", and if you think so you're completely ignoring everything that this series has portrayed so well, including the Servants who ARE actually abiding by the codes of chivalry. Can't stand people trying to kill each other because it won't have a happy ending? Then fine, go drop this anime and watch something more stupidly idealistic, I don't care.
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Old 2011-11-25, 18:32   Link #219
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Originally Posted by OliverTwist View Post
Voted this episode a 6. Not sure why I'm supposed to even care about any of these fights since no one ever dies. Are they all gonna hold hands and sing Christmas carols at the end of the series?
Fate/Zero is mostly written by Gen Urobochi. If you knew his track record, you'll know its not as much as how soon will they die so much as HOW they will die.
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Old 2011-11-25, 18:46   Link #220
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What people are trying to say is that the people at fault for the disconnect of fate/stay night anime viewers and fate/zero anime viewers isn't ufotabale and Urobuchi Gen with Fate/zero, but rather it is the fault of DEEN with fate/stay night for misleading them into thinking that this was a much more light hearted affair.

So when someone comes here and complains about this adaption for being too dark, it feels a bit misdirected to the fans of the source material/VN since it was the original anime that got it wrong, not this one.

In any case, people by now should know what Fate/Zero is about. It's not a light hearted affair, and this is a more proper adaption. If that bothers you, then OK. However, there should be no claims that the original anime is the true identity of the fate universe since the original anime is actually at fault for changing the nature of the source material. That's all. Whether or not you like this is your call though.

Secondly, I'm curious if people thought the conflicts in the original fate/stay night were much too cleanly settled as well (I mean Kayneth ending up in a pile of blood after having all his magic circuits destroyed is apparently clean...). Saying this because fate/stay night also had several conflicts which did not result in anyone's death either, though there was collateral damage on the side (Similar to Saber in Fate/Zero not being able to use her left hand).
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