HUGE WALL OF TEXT (to match the episode @__@; there is tl;dr at the end)
This episode answered the question of why Masazumi is needed if they want to get supplies. The broadcast is actually to the entire "world". They need to legitimatize their cause if they want help; whether the other factions are sympathetic to their cause is another story. Not everyone has the omnipotent perspective of the viewers. This debate is basically explaining to the whole world what had happened yesterday. I hope from the responses of the citizens, you guys should realize most people are left in the dark. You can't utilize the entire city to go to war without explanation to the citizens.
When Gin said that Masazumi is looking straight at their direction, she is implying that Masazumi is trying to bait Innocentius into the discussion. Beating Toori is meaningless, but winning a debate against Innocentius is key. This is a horrible example but if a Communist government makes a political decision, Democratic governments are not likely to agree; yet, if the two entered a debate and Communist's debater won, then the general mass is likely to accept the Communist stance more (hope this makes sense). Meanwhile, Toori never wanted to win, but he DOES NEED Masazumi on his side because Masazumi is the only one left with political power (this is from previous episode).
The entire debate is very straightforward. To summarize the initial 3 points, you basically need land, people, and independence.
MU: Need our ruler back, can't defreeze accounts without a ruler.
Implication here is they will take over the entire Far East including all its colonies and officially declare independence from provisional rule.
This is a extremely good reason to go to war because they would get actual independence as you recall previously Far East is basically all sub-class people.
Funny thing here: the entire provisional council is helping out TOori here with the cheat sheets (basically the dad sold out his daughter and Masazumi just realized that). The question from her dad is basically what rights do you have to say we are justice and that TU is evil.
In the novel, Masazumi is actually facing a lot of pressure here. Father keeps saying she's immature, the failure of her operation etc., death of her mom, and her family basically falling into poverty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morisato
Why doesn't she just get surgery done again and get some fake breasts? Or magic. I'm sure with their super enhanced technology/magic, realistic breasts (that aren't silicone) aren't impossible.
Refer back to Episode 2, Masazumi is very, very poor. Even if operation is available, she probably can't afford it (if you absolutely need a reason to justify this); she could in the first place because that was before Motonobu decided to kick everyone out.
Those black algae eat trash in the city (they kinda hinted this with Masazumi giving them the paper). They're like the all purpose recycler in the far future, but they also stink like crazy and don't show their faces except to Horizon and Masazumi. The scene here is kinda touching, but due to pacing issue it got condensed. This is one of those scenes I suggest reading when the BT translations get here.
It's worth noting that Toori is the one who deliberately told Adele to bring them here.
TU's stance = If you let her die, we'll defreeze you accounts anyway, and Mikawa's ruler =/= your ruler.
Masazumi: We are merging with Mikawa then.
Remember you need people, land, and independence? Merging solves the first two and so Mikawa never disappeared as a result, there's no need to even take responsibility in the first place. All these guys care about is historical reenactment, so if the place exists then it's fine; the cost in losing land and resources are none factor for the sake of this particular debate.
Furthermore, Horizon = not responsible because not official ruler at the time of destruction. Like back in the Sengoku Era, inheritance has to be officialized through Shrines, and what Asama is saying is that KPA Italia hurried another Shrine to finish the process in the morning, but the explosion was last night.
Innocentius's main stance is the interpretation of the "Bible". Just like priests' interpretation of the bible are held as "fact", Innocentius' interpretation is not murder, but is martyrdom (like someone else already mentioned in this thread). The "interpretation" power is what allows him to make all his calls, while this seems highly unfair and bullshit, he is in the right here. He studied the history far more than anyone else, and he truly believes this is the correct method. While you label this faction the bad guys, at least here he is irrefutable.
This also had the added benefit of temporarily diverting from the inheritance argument, which is what Muneshige's saying about and exactly what Masazumi did; she totally ignored the previous stance that Horizon is completely innocent to begin with, so +1 Innocentius here; she only realized this when she mentioned the scorch Earth thing. Furthermore, when Masazumi use the parallel line discussion, to which Innocentius maintained that TU doesn't want war, Masazumi to match him has to say let's just go to war then; this is not Innocentius trying to force Masazumi to declare war and look bad as the instigator, this is just literally him going "Do you actually dare to declare war?" Masazumi can't say yes, and it's until Toori's stupid interjection that helps her make up her mind.
In the novel,
Spoiler for novel:
Innocentius brought up Masazumi's gender issue but also bribed her by saying he'll acknowledge her and legitimize her taking the name, so it's not just pure personal attack .
TL;DR: The translation is stellar as usual, rest of it I think you guys get and there isn't really anything else that I think needs clarification. Though keep in mind of the concept of parallel lines discussion, that becomes very important later on.
Too long did actually read, okay thanks to your explanation I seem to understand what's going on in more detail. But why does K.P.A even have the need of forcing Horizon to commit suicide? they just got themselves a Dsa (with a nice pair of legs too) is it some kindof political issue that forces them to make her suicide or am I overthinking?EDIT:Should add, if theyjust claimed her as mikawa's ruler in a sec why not use someone else
Too long did actually read, okay thanks to your explanation I seem to understand what's going on in more detail. But why does K.P.A even have the need of forcing Horizon to commit suicide? they just got themselves a Dsa (with a nice pair of legs too) is it some kindof political issue that forces them to make her suicide or am I overthinking?EDIT:Should add, if theyjust claimed her as mikawa's ruler in a sec why not use someone else
They need to kill Horizon (as in completely dismantle her) to extract the DSA.
They need to kill Horizon (as in completely dismantle her) to extract the DSA.
Oh so that's how it works, thank you very much. I love the anime so far and I wish I could read the "light" novels but my Japanese knowledge is a huge empty space
Refer back to Episode 2, Masazumi is very, very poor. Even if operation is available, she probably can't afford it (if you absolutely need a reason to justify this); she could in the first place because that was before Motonobu decided to kick everyone out.
Very very poor? I was under the impression that even though they failed to get on Lord of Mikawa's good side, they were still relatively notable people on Musashi? Wasn't her dad riding in a carriage with Konishi to some meeting? I thought the only reason Masazumi retained her power was because her dad was still influential on the ship.
Did Masazumi's dad conspire with Toori and set her up in the debate? I thought he was against fighting the Testament Union but kinda surprised that he asked Toori to ask her that question.
Very very poor? I was under the impression that even though they failed to get on Lord of Mikawa's good side, they were still relatively notable people on Musashi? Wasn't her dad riding in a carriage with Konishi to some meeting? I thought the only reason Masazumi retained her power was because her dad was still influential on the ship.
This was hinted back in episode 2. Girl had to work part time to even feed herself properly. The part about Horizon saying she thinks Masazumi's about to die from starvation isn't really an exaggeration (robots don't exaggerate haha), and from the conversation, you can tell Masazumi owe the store owner many favors. Even if you missed all those, the entire episode basically explained that Masazumi's father's job was replaced by robots. No job = no income. Having influence =/= money, even though they were riding in carriage, it's not like they actually own it; it's more like taking a taxi to work.
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Originally Posted by Myname
Did Masazumi's dad conspire with Toori and set her up in the debate? I thought he was against fighting the Testament Union but kinda surprised that he asked Toori to ask her that question.
Toori planned the whole thing. If Masazumi can't even answer that question, they have no chance in defending their ground. Since Toori was arguing on the side of Union, it's not surprising the dad helped him out. There're lots of planning on Toori's part that just got glossed over, you just gotta know where to look to find evidences of him not being an idiot .
Toori's relationship with his class isn't surprising, but I'm quite interested at his relationship with Masazumi's father and the eroge trader friend.
It's rather... interesting how Toori seems to have their.... 'acceptance?' to the extent that Toori can ask them to play ghost in his pranks.
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Toori's relationship with his class isn't surprising, but I'm quite interested at his relationship with Masazumi's father and the eroge trader friend.
It's rather... interesting how Toori seems to have their.... 'acceptance?' to the extent that Toori can ask them to play ghost in his pranks.
Well remember that Masazumi's father has been on the Musashi for what 9-10 years while Masazumi stayed with her mother and only a year ago came to Musashi after her mother was spirited away. He's probably gotten used to Toori by now.
This is a extremely good reason to go to war because they would get actual independence as you recall previously Far East is basically all sub-class people.
provided they believe they have a good chance of "winning the war".
This must be one of the very few times where political episode with nothing but talking actually made me went "What? It's already passed 20 minutes?". I find it's fascinating and easy to understand (though some clarifications like stoupidget's ones are nice to have).
Yeah, the episode is getting better and better...
I no longer suffer confusion from who is this and what is that...
Guess the re-watch 3x on the first 4 eps and some guide by bro stuopidget really helps out...
I cant remember when the last time i watch a debate of politics in anime...
Surely an enjoyable episode here...
I cant remember when the last time i watch a debate of politics in anime...
Surely an enjoyable episode here...
I don't think many people thought this series would be very heavy on the politics but it's a interest change form the usual stuff one sees in anime today.
and Masazumi just realized that). The question from her dad is basically what rights do you have to say we are justice and that TU is evil.
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