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Old 2011-02-10, 13:54   Link #61
Shikijin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
The issue with Black Hanekawa is that she came out, and was therefore necessary.
The message you were replying to was not talking about Black Hanekawa. The main topic appeared to be the influence of Hanekawa on Araragi. I'm not getting how the issue of Black Hanekawa came out
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If Tsubasa herself was more conscious of her own feelings and openly admitted to them, she would be less stressed.
Possibly. But we would also get less Black Hanekawa. Why taking out the fun?
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Old 2011-12-03, 22:53   Link #62
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Hmmmmm Reading the whole topic made me a litte confused on the Hanekawa character, so many different interpretations.
Spoiler for Bakemonogatari, Episode 15:

Quite confusing ><
Still I'm feeling sad she would not stay with him in the end (or at least seem so).
Sry for the bad english, long time I dont write something this long ><
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Old 2011-12-22, 01:41   Link #63
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I do feel some sympathy for Tsubasa considering how it all went down. There seemed to be a lot of time for things to work out with Koyomi. Instead Hitagi arrived on the scene fast and went for it. Unfortunately that kind of thing happens (minus the oddities...). I'm sure she'll be fine in the end. Hope things go well for her since it's been a rough streak with that home life and then romance troubles.
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Old 2012-03-06, 17:48   Link #64
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Scarier than Senjougahara since she literally does know everything despite her downplaying her knowledge.
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Old 2012-03-06, 19:13   Link #65
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Hanekawa's knowledge base is indeed legendary. She's probably one of the most interesting characters in the series because of that.
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Old 2012-03-19, 05:06   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity View Post
This girl was the generic "loves the main character but won't tell him" type. I don't think girls like her would fare much better in real life either. She is cool and awesome but she is indecisive and wants the world to stop and run at her pace, not gonna happen.
Whoa holy shit. I saw that I had made a post on this thread and so hunted it down but I so totally didn't expect it to be so completely antagonistic to my current view of the character. Wow I am totally in shock.

At least I gave her that she is cool and awesome. And I can agree with the me who made that post nearly two years ago that girls that keep to themselves wouldn't succeed in love (or most anything) in life. But holy damn I can't believe how cruel I sound.

Anyway, with the passage of time and reading up more etc., Hanekawa Tsubasa has definitely won my heart. At least a heck lot more than the "main girl".

I really hope she gets over Koyomi somehow. I don't see Koyomi dropping his relationship with Hitagi for her, even if he does love her (more). I don't know how else to resolve her situation but time heals everything and if she does indeed go on a tour of the world, she might just find the freedom she desperately longs for.
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Old 2012-03-19, 11:23   Link #67
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I hope she never gets over Koyomi in any way... Tsubasa is the perfect fit for him, as well as he for her, despite all the problems generated by a popular copy-cat, and lolis, that confuse readers and watchers
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Old 2012-03-19, 12:00   Link #68
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Whoa holy shit. I saw that I had made a post on this thread and so hunted it down but I so totally didn't expect it to be so completely antagonistic to my current view of the character. Wow I am totally in shock.

At least I gave her that she is cool and awesome. And I can agree with the me who made that post nearly two years ago that girls that keep to themselves wouldn't succeed in love (or most anything) in life. But holy damn I can't believe how cruel I sound.

Anyway, with the passage of time and reading up more etc., Hanekawa Tsubasa has definitely won my heart. At least a heck lot more than the "main girl".

I really hope she gets over Koyomi somehow. I don't see Koyomi dropping his relationship with Hitagi for her, even if he does love her (more). I don't know how else to resolve her situation but time heals everything and if she does indeed go on a tour of the world, she might just find the freedom she desperately longs for.
Read Nekomonogatari (White). It presents her flaws quite clearly. She never asks for help and almost expects Araragi to help her without asking him like he always does.

It's been noted several times in the series that Tsubasa is a better match for Koyomi than Hitagi is. If she was a little more honest with herself, she would be dating him before Hitagi ever came into the picture.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:41   Link #69
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Read Nekomonogatari (White). It presents her flaws quite clearly. She never asks for help and almost expects Araragi to help her without asking him like he always does.

It's been noted several times in the series that Tsubasa is a better match for Koyomi than Hitagi is. If she was a little more honest with herself, she would be dating him before Hitagi ever came into the picture.
I think I knew very well how and where flawed she is just from Bakemonogatari judging from my post from over 2 years ago. Man, I know was going through a rough patch back then but I can't believe I was that much of an asshole to just shoot a character down like that ;_;

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I hope she never gets over Koyomi in any way... Tsubasa is the perfect fit for him, as well as he for her, despite all the problems generated by a popular copy-cat, and lolis, that confuse readers and watchers
But Koyomi isn't gonna dump crab for her. And lolis and vamps are awesome enough that Tsubasa herself seems to like/love them. I would much rather this girl grows out of her (dumb) infatuation with somewhat of a loser even if the said loser is more manly than any other boy her age. And really, screw Koyomi for being utterly dumb and so freaking easy to get. He would have gone out with any girl who confessed to him first and would have stayed with her regardless of how. I don't want a superior girl like Hanekawa to think of such a cheap target as endgame. She is better off alone imho. But then again, logic doesn't dictate love. And perhaps her unrequited love adds that much to her maturity and charm that a part of me wishes for her to forever be lost in the wilderness of love. After all, an absolutely perfect girl with no flaws is boring as hell.
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Old 2012-03-20, 23:52   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity View Post
But Koyomi isn't gonna dump crab for her. And lolis and vamps are awesome enough that Tsubasa herself seems to like/love them. I would much rather this girl grows out of her (dumb) infatuation with somewhat of a loser even if the said loser is more manly than any other boy her age. And really, screw Koyomi for being utterly dumb and so freaking easy to get. He would have gone out with any girl who confessed to him first and would have stayed with her regardless of how. I don't want a superior girl like Hanekawa to think of such a cheap target as endgame. She is better off alone imho. But then again, logic doesn't dictate love. And perhaps her unrequited love adds that much to her maturity and charm that a part of me wishes for her to forever be lost in the wilderness of love. After all, an absolutely perfect girl with no flaws is boring as hell.
No... I think the idea is that romance isn't necessarily love between the two most compatible people, not that Araragi is "easy". You make Koyomi sound like a community bike or something. There's no need to redirect your former harshness from Tsubasa to him.
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Old 2012-03-21, 05:59   Link #71
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
No... I think the idea is that romance isn't necessarily love between the two most compatible people, not that Araragi is "easy". You make Koyomi sound like a community bike or something. There's no need to redirect your former harshness from Tsubasa to him.
Apologies but I am harsh by nature. And while I may indeed be harsh, I do give people the benefit of doubt where they deserve it. I did give it to Tsubasa that she was impressive and I certainly give it to Koyomi that he is more manly than most kids his age will ever be. In that regard, he is certainly not a community bike. In fact, he would be more like a community bike if he were to dump crab just because he accessed a better girl. But my point wasn't to call him "easy to get" as in a manslut but as in him being a guy who would have reciprocated any girl's feelings were she to confess to him. That's not necessarily a bad thing either. In the same vein that he is actually more impressive clinging to an inferior girl despite the inherent contradiction in that an impressive man would know to switch to better things when available. Conundrums add to the charm of a person. So I don't necessarily think I was being harsh on Araragi Koyomi. And there is no way I am prejudiced against him because I like the guy and went through a similar phase in regards to family relationships. Thus, you are the one being harsh here, and harsh on me at that for calling me out as being harsh
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Old 2013-01-02, 20:18   Link #72
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But Koyomi isn't gonna dump crab for her. And lolis and vamps are awesome enough that Tsubasa herself seems to like/love them. I would much rather this girl grows out of her (dumb) infatuation with somewhat of a loser even if the said loser is more manly than any other boy her age. And really, screw Koyomi for being utterly dumb and so freaking easy to get. He would have gone out with any girl who confessed to him first and would have stayed with her regardless of how. I don't want a superior girl like Hanekawa to think of such a cheap target as endgame. She is better off alone imho. But then again, logic doesn't dictate love. And perhaps her unrequited love adds that much to her maturity and charm that a part of me wishes for her to forever be lost in the wilderness of love. After all, an absolutely perfect girl with no flaws is boring as hell.
I share the same view on hanekawa
sadly, to me, it looked like she was trying to drag/push koyomi on her level to don't make him feel inferior/inadequate for her, but that would take so much time..
he's that kind of inferiority complex toward hanekawa, which got in the way of their relationship limiting it to only friendly admiration on koyomi's part
it would be good just seeing it paying off in some way..
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Old 2013-01-03, 12:38   Link #73
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Old 2013-01-03, 17:02   Link #74
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Ah, Hane-chan~, so much to say but too few words to actually get the entire meaning across. :P So if I end a particular aspect/section too early, it's because I wanted to get to the next point before I forget what I wanted to say about it.

On the surface, she was the living embodiment of the "too good to be true" statement. Everyone it seems has nothing but good to say about her - and really, just glancing at the outward, one would be hard-pressed to dislike Hanekawa for anything. In fact, she could be called a saint. But of course, she had a 'perfect' fascade. Turns out she was inherently flawed in that she even thought to put out such a fascade as a coping mechanisim in the first place. While it is admirable that she would act like a 'perfect daughter' and that they would accept her if she did that, she shouldn't have had to do it. Even if she acted like a b*tch even a part of the time, that would be the most normal reaction most teenagers would give, especially to those so-called 'parents' of hers. Just thinking about them makes me want to bash their heads in front of her.

She didn't let herself be who she really was in front of Araragi. With Senjougahara, she knew herself that she was flawed, she told Araragi flat out that she was flawed and that she really had no clue as to what she's doing, but she still took a chance, despite being flawed and having it known. Going over some of the material, I didn't get that with Hanekawa at all. It's as if she only dropped hints now and again to Araragi that things weren't perfect with her, but her fascade was so convincing that Araragi didn't pick up on it at all, nor did anyone else for that matter.

Hnn, I gotta quit here since my niece is trying to mess me up as I type in a bid for attention.... ><....
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Old 2013-01-03, 17:49   Link #75
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The later novel material made it clear that Hanekawa lost multiple friendships when she revealed part of her real lifestyle, one after another. So she deliberately hides her troubles in the present day because she had repeated experience of former friends running away from her really fast as soon as they heard the truth.

It just made sense to lie after that. It doesn't make it right, but it made sense.
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Old 2013-01-04, 01:29   Link #76
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After reading these discussions, it makes me wonder whether Hanekawa Tsubasa inspired

Spoiler for Nisio's other works:
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Old 2013-01-04, 09:33   Link #77
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After reading these discussions, it makes me wonder whether Hanekawa Tsubasa inspired

Spoiler for Nisio's other works:
No, they are nothing alike. If anything, Medaka is closer to Zaregoto's Jun Aikawa.
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Old 2013-01-04, 13:17   Link #78
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The later novel material made it clear that Hanekawa lost multiple friendships when she revealed part of her real lifestyle, one after another. So she deliberately hides her troubles in the present day because she had repeated experience of former friends running away from her really fast as soon as they heard the truth.

It just made sense to lie after that. It doesn't make it right, but it made sense.
Well that does fall under the 'necessary lie' group. Although, what kind of friends would run away from someone in this situation...?

"You don't have a room?"

"That's creepy..."

"We don't hang out with creepy girls."

The things that kids can do sometimes... Hanekawa's situation is such a failure on multiple levels, including friendship and community. Nosy people are disliked, yeah but apathetic people are worse, at least in my book. This probably falls back onto differences in cultural mindset since it's very looked down upon to be nosy in this individualistic day and age. While it is true, what someone does is their own business, once their choices start affecting others, it is no longer just 'their business'.

In America, Child Services would have a GOLDEN WEEK of their own with this case... Hell, from the way they acted, Hanekawa could have moved in with someone else entirely and they would have not cared for the first week or so.
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Old 2013-01-04, 15:54   Link #79
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In America, Child Services would have a GOLDEN WEEK of their own with this case... Hell, from the way they acted, Hanekawa could have moved in with someone else entirely and they would have not cared for the first week or so.
See, Hanekawa could have done something. Domestic violence is obviously serious. But just like many other social issues, the victim rarely come forward. Things just stay unreported. And this is just my opinion, but I think Hanekawa is so desperate to still HAVE a family, that she is willing to be beaten up and sleep in the hallway. It's a sham of a "family" that doesn't even deserve to use that term, but that's all she got.

But obviously when it gets to the stage when she wishes people physical harm, things go bad. People who need help, rarely ask. But if they don't ask, they rarely get any help.
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Old 2013-01-04, 17:33   Link #80
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Well that does fall under the 'necessary lie' group. Although, what kind of friends would run away from someone in this situation...?

"You don't have a room?"

"That's creepy..."

"We don't hang out with creepy girls."
Not very creative. Try something more like:

"Hey, Hanekawa. Can we come over today?"

"But I don't have a room..."

"Oh..."

Then there is this awkward atmosphere, and then it becomes increasing uncomfortable to talk to her everyday until you no longer talk to her at all. This is high school. Friendships can be shallow.


Quote:
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The things that kids can do sometimes... Hanekawa's situation is such a failure on multiple levels, including friendship and community. Nosy people are disliked, yeah but apathetic people are worse, at least in my book. This probably falls back onto differences in cultural mindset since it's very looked down upon to be nosy in this individualistic day and age. While it is true, what someone does is their own business, once their choices start affecting others, it is no longer just 'their business'.



In America, Child Services would have a GOLDEN WEEK of their own with this case... Hell, from the way they acted, Hanekawa could have moved in with someone else entirely and they would have not cared for the first week or so.
That would not work because:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

Hanekawa does not see her parents as a problem. Remember when she defended her parents for hitting her in front of Araragi?
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