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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana III - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 26 40.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 23 35.38%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 4 6.15%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 12.31%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 3.08%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 3.08%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-12-04, 14:15   Link #41
Ec1ge
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Can someone please answer my question? ._.
I dont think so.
When Tenmoku Ikko had the Nietono No Shana (before giving it to Shana), PoE was always absorbed through his mouth.
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Old 2011-12-04, 14:22   Link #42
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Has the Nietono-no-Shana always been able to eat existence like it did whenever Tenmoku Ikku killed a Denizen?
In the 2nd season he swallowed them whole

but yes, he has always been able to eat POE from denizens

Tenmoku is a torch. It's the only way for him to keep existing in this world
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Old 2011-12-04, 14:47   Link #43
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So it might have something to do with Nietono-no-Shana having a proper master in this case, since Tenmoku Ikku wasn't really that sword's master back then.
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Old 2011-12-04, 19:18   Link #44
Essa Maneira
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Originally Posted by klare View Post

anyway the defense inside Seirei-den seems weak, really weak...
too late on Fecor's realization about the passage between Sereiden and Tendokyu.
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Old 2011-12-04, 20:41   Link #45
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Ugh, god I really don't like Shakugan no Shana. It's all about creating drama and action, and almost never does it in any clever way. Actually, I find most of the drama and action to be completely without thought, to the point that it sometimes don't even make any sense. Let me tell of some examples I found in this episode.

Since being imprisoned, Shana has been desperate for a chance to counter-attack and escape. If she knew summoning Nietono no Shana was an option, she would have done so long ago (optimally when Serieden was left almost deserted, if her being consistently capable of thought--and not just when it suits the story--was an option), yet she's not at all surprised when just shouting its name makes it appear in the form of Tenmokku Ikko (who is an armor apart from the sword by the way, but to hell with consistency when there can be drama).

Shana appears seriously injured after the blast in the corridor--perhaps even unable to move her lower body, as she spends two minutes of our time crawling on her forearms. Then when the maid-rinne grabs her she is able to spring up, go ape-shit on it and then stand up and appear fine when Tenmokku Ikko appears.

Perhaps the most puzzling occurrence in this episode is that Tenmokku Ikko was able to cut through Fecor's Magnecia and kill him...I mean WTF. Very powerful flame haze haven't been able to do so in the past, but suddenly when it's important to the story that he die, BAM! he's dead. I suppose using those wings on his back to fly away from the slow-moving suit of armor (oh, wait; it suddenly learned to run in this episode) wouldn't occur to a character that is destined to die for there to be more drama and action.

Maybe the authors are unable to create characters that can consistently think on even a basic level, let alone be smart or behave appropriately to their background and experiences, from which one can infer a roughly accurate portrayal of a how person might act (not brain-dead, in the case of most these flame haze and guze no tomogara--most of which have lived a looong time, learned a lot and experienced much).

Or maybe the intended audience is 13-15 year old boys who the authors for some reason expect will be unable to understand why their story and their characterization especially, is awful.
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Old 2011-12-04, 21:18   Link #46
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Or maybe the intended audience is 13-15 year old boys who the authors for some reason expect will be unable to understand why their story and their characterization especially, is awful.
That's quite an insulting generalization you got there.
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Old 2011-12-04, 21:25   Link #47
Ec1ge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giriath View Post
Ugh, god I really don't like Shakugan no Shana. It's all about creating drama and action, and almost never does it in any clever way. Actually, I find most of the drama and action to be completely without thought, to the point that it sometimes don't even make any sense. Let me tell of some examples I found in this episode.

Since being imprisoned, Shana has been desperate for a chance to counter-attack and escape. If she knew summoning Nietono no Shana was an option, she would have done so long ago (optimally when Serieden was left almost deserted, if her being consistently capable of thought--and not just when it suits the story--was an option), yet she's not at all surprised when just shouting its name makes it appear in the form of Tenmokku Ikko (who is an armor apart from the sword by the way, but to hell with consistency when there can be drama).

Shana appears seriously injured after the blast in the corridor--perhaps even unable to move her lower body, as she spends two minutes of our time crawling on her forearms. Then when the maid-rinne grabs her she is able to spring up, go ape-shit on it and then stand up and appear fine when Tenmokku Ikko appears.

Perhaps the most puzzling occurrence in this episode is that Tenmokku Ikko was able to cut through Fecor's Magnecia and kill him...I mean WTF. Very powerful flame haze haven't been able to do so in the past, but suddenly when it's important to the story that he die, BAM! he's dead. I suppose using those wings on his back to fly away from the slow-moving suit of armor (oh, wait; it suddenly learned to run in this episode) wouldn't occur to a character that is destined to die for there to be more drama and action.

Maybe the authors are unable to create characters that can consistently think on even a basic level, let alone be smart or behave appropriately to their background and experiences, from which one can infer a roughly accurate portrayal of a how person might act (not brain-dead, in the case of most these flame haze and guze no tomogara--most of which have lived a looong time, learned a lot and experienced much).

Or maybe the intended audience is 13-15 year old boys who the authors for some reason expect will be unable to understand why their story and their characterization especially, is awful.
All i gotta say is if you don't like the series for how it is, than don't watch it.
It's as simple as that.

There are many other fans who love this series for it non-original story, storytelling, characters, and message it tries to give.
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Old 2011-12-04, 21:33   Link #48
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I think the generalization was unnecessary and blunt, but I think it's no better if people attack him and tell him that he just shouldn't watch it either. If people would like to address the points, I think that would be reasonable, but otherwise it may be better to just leave it. People are allowed their opinion.
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Old 2011-12-04, 21:33   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
That's quite an insulting generalization you got there.
I'm suggesting the authors might be making the generalization I suspect you think I intended to make.

I'm fully aware many 13-15 year old boys would be able to analyze and criticize a story such as this quite well.
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Old 2011-12-04, 21:40   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giriath View Post
I'm suggesting the authors might be making the generalization I suspect you think I intended to make.

I'm fully aware many 13-15 year old boys would be able to analyze and criticize a story such as this quite well.
To be clear, that's not the insulting part of the generalization. It's the insinuation that people who don't find the story and characterizations to be "awful" as you do must be childish and unable to analyse and criticize, like "smart people will agree the story sucks". It's a very unwise coda to add to your opinion, and you would have been better off omitting it.

I'd ask that further posts focus on the actual arguments or just let it be.
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Old 2011-12-04, 21:41   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Giriath View Post
I'm suggesting the authors might be making the generalization I suspect you think I intended to make.

I'm fully aware many 13-15 year old boys would be able to analyze and criticize a story such as this quite well.
Well if you don't really like this episode than I'm pretty sure that the future episodes will be better.
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Old 2011-12-04, 21:44   Link #52
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Okay , let's get this shit over with, shall we?

Quote:
Since being imprisoned, Shana has been desperate for a chance to counter-attack and escape. If she knew summoning Nietono no Shana was an option, she would have done so long ago (optimally when Serieden was left almost deserted, if her being consistently capable of thought--and not just when it suits the story--was an option), yet she's not at all surprised when just shouting its name makes it appear in the form of Tenmokku Ikko (who is an armor apart from the sword by the way, but to hell with consistency when there can be drama).
Consider the fact that the reason why she was there was because the first human (albeit a Mystes) she became friendly with... that she loved probably more than Wilhelmina her foster mother... beat her to a bloody mess and isolated her from the battlefield.

Based on the episodes before the Ninth, she was shaken by this, and she felt helpless since she has her powers sealed and Yuji can just rip her to shreds if she makes a mistake (not that he would do such a thing, mind you).

Quote:
Shana appears seriously injured after the blast in the corridor--perhaps even unable to move her lower body, as she spends two minutes of our time crawling on her forearms. Then when the maid-rinne grabs her she is able to spring up, go ape-shit on it and then stand up and appear fine when Tenmokku Ikko appears.
Adrenaline rush, fueled by fear.

Quote:
Perhaps the most puzzling occurrence in this episode is that Tenmokku Ikko was able to cut through Fecor's Magnecia and kill him...I mean WTF. Very powerful flame haze haven't been able to do so in the past, but suddenly when it's important to the story that he die, BAM! he's dead. I suppose using those wings on his back to fly away from the slow-moving suit of armor (oh, wait; it suddenly learned to run in this episode) wouldn't occur to a character that is destined to die for there to be more drama and action.
The Nietono no Shana has been described as an anti-magic sword. Also, Tenmoku Ikko has a reputation for singlehandedly killing off Crimson Denizens. This fact is probably known even by the Trinity.

Quote:
Maybe the authors are unable to create characters that can consistently think on even a basic level, let alone be smart or behave appropriately to their background and experiences, from which one can infer a roughly accurate portrayal of a how person might act (not brain-dead, in the case of most these flame haze and guze no tomogara--most of which have lived a looong time, learned a lot and experienced much).
That's poor judgment of the characters' personality. So this means that the author cannot create a truly "human" character, who has inherent flaws that can make that character unique from the rest of the cast?
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Old 2011-12-04, 21:47   Link #53
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So, unless they come up with a comeback for Fecor (which I really hope not...), I guess this would be the first death of any major character since like Sorath/Tiriel in season 1, right? And hopefully more are going to come, since Shana is a bit character heavy now.
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Old 2011-12-04, 21:58   Link #54
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
To be clear, that's not the insulting part of the generalization. It's the insinuation that people who don't find the story and characterizations to be "awful" as you do must be childish and unable to analyse and criticize, like "smart people will agree the story sucks". It's a very unwise coda to add to your opinion, and you would have been better off omitting it.

I'd ask that further posts focus on the actual arguments or just let it be.
Someone able to analyze and criticize Shakugan no Shana would agree that the story and characterization has many inconsistencies, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would think it "sucks".

Perhaps I should have wrote that the story might be intended to appeal most to those who don't notice or disregard these inconsistencies, as it is more my own opinion that they make it below average quality.

That doesn't mean though that I can't occasionally find Shana endearing, or the drama and action exciting.
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Old 2011-12-04, 21:59   Link #55
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Kristen, You forgot Friagne. ;_;
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Old 2011-12-04, 22:00   Link #56
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Kristen, You forgot Friagne. ;_;
Friagne died before those brats, though.
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Old 2011-12-04, 22:02   Link #57
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^ You have a point there.

EDIT:

Quote:
Someone able to analyze and criticize Shakugan no Shana would agree that the story and characterization has many inconsistencies, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would think it "sucks".

Perhaps I should have wrote that the story might be intended to appeal most to those who don't notice or disregard these inconsistencies, as it is more my own opinion that they make it below average quality.
Well, if you do belong to the kind of people who are "able to analyze and criticize Shakugan no Shana", then you should express your views in the General Discussion thread or the Light Novels thread. The thread needs to be back on track, you know.
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Old 2011-12-04, 22:20   Link #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giriath View Post
Someone able to analyze and criticize Shakugan no Shana would agree that the story and characterization has many inconsistencies, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would think it "sucks".

Perhaps I should have wrote that the story might be intended to appeal most to those who don't notice or disregard these inconsistencies, as it is more my own opinion that they make it below average quality.
You're not really helping yourself here, despite my trying to give you a number of outs. You've again precluded the possibility that the story and characterization may not have the inconsistencies that you're arguing exist, and insinuated that people who don't see it your way may be less discriminating than you are... which is not exactly a fair or complementary way of framing an argument. This is why I'm saying your argument itself would have been stronger if you could have just left that part out (and not clarified it, since you didn't make it better).

In any case, the criticism itself has been duly noted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Well, if you do belong to the kind of people who are "able to analyze and criticize Shakugan no Shana", then you should express your views in the General Discussion thread or the Light Novels thread. The thread needs to be back on track, you know.
The original points were about Episode 9, so it makes sense for them to be in this thread. I don't think the points themselves were off-topic... though admittedly this tangent about the way he phrased things is, and hopefully that's over now. (This time, I chose to explain it rather than either deleting the post or allowing a flamewar to erupt.)
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Old 2011-12-04, 22:30   Link #59
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That's poor judgment of the characters' personality. So this means that the author cannot create a truly "human" character, who has inherent flaws that can make that character unique from the rest of the cast?
I don't know. That's an absurdly difficult thing for any author to accomplish, in any medium, and certainly not what I demand of a work of fiction to consider it above average.

I don't think it's a poor judgment of character to think it odd that Shana, who has trained to fight or fought Guze no Tomogara all her life, would be so frightened she was unable to move in that corridor. Or that she would hesitate to make every attempt of escape once the threat of the Trinity and Yuji (who she still may not be in a correct state of mind to fight) was gone.

And true enough, once they were she focused only on finding a chance to do so. Since she never once thought of summoning Nietono no Shana, I think we can safely conclude she did not know that was an option. That's why I think it's weird that she wouldn't be surprised that her desperate and last resort attempt actually worked.

It would have been a simple thing of amazement and maybe some self-indulgent gloating that the awesome sword is hers.

And if Tenmokku Ikko was really able to kill Fecor, at least credit him with a fight scene! I guess a prolonged fight would have looked silly though, with Fecor being the lone combatant with the ability of flight. But maybe Fecor could have considered the threat of Tenmokku Ikko bringing Shana the sword worth the risk of diving in for an attack, only to be unexpectedly crippled and defeated. I would have liked to see something like that though, instead of Tenmokku Ikko just walking through him (I guess he was just unlucky to be in the direct path Tenmokku Ikko was taking to Shana?).
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Old 2011-12-04, 22:37   Link #60
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There wouldn't be much of a fight scene if Tenmoku Ikko can slice through Magnesia like a knife on butter.
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