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Old 2003-12-10, 17:12   Link #1
Ainana
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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uploading rate

I'm on a limited 24 hour bandwidth (ie. I can only use so much every 24 hours).

Since I was close to my limit (but also my clearance time ie. I downloaded a lot around that time the day before, so after it passes I won't be near my limit), but I wanted to start to do some downloading, I was going to download for an hour at a low upload and download rate before switching back to normal. But somehow, when I looked at my computer, I was uploading at 6 times the rate I had set and when I checked the advanced info, it showed that everyone was downloading from me at really low rates except for one person who was getting almost everything and exceeding my set upload rate by a little over 5 times the rate.

What happened? Is there any way to stop it? It makes me feel like I can't leave my computer if I'm downloading and close to my limit.....
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Old 2003-12-10, 18:17   Link #2
Flash_Squirrel
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This is probably because you setted the Max Uploads at a rather high level.
Example, if you set Max uploads to 100, 100 people will connect to you and download from you at the slowest possible, means that even if you do set a upload rate at 10 for example, you will upload more to satisfy the Max uploads setting.

Another example, If I set my uploads to 100 my connection will upload 60to80k/s and my limit is 20k/s in upload. You should check both the max upload rate AND the max uploads too.
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Old 2003-12-10, 19:33   Link #3
Ainana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_Squirrel
This is probably because you setted the Max Uploads at a rather high level.
Example, if you set Max uploads to 100, 100 people will connect to you and download from you at the slowest possible, means that even if you do set a upload rate at 10 for example, you will upload more to satisfy the Max uploads setting.

Another example, If I set my uploads to 100 my connection will upload 60to80k/s and my limit is 20k/s in upload. You should check both the max upload rate AND the max uploads too.
I did, it wasn't the problem. But checking on the advanced torrents, it was one particular leecher who downloaded from me at such a scary rate compared to the other leechers that almost set me over my limit. Ie. while it was already downloading at 6 times my limit for downloading, one leecher alone was downloading at a rate of just over 5 times my limit.
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Old 2003-12-10, 20:04   Link #4
Sour-Do
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ainana
I did, it wasn't the problem. But checking on the advanced torrents, it was one particular leecher who downloaded from me at such a scary rate compared to the other leechers that almost set me over my limit. Ie. while it was already downloading at 6 times my limit for downloading, one leecher alone was downloading at a rate of just over 5 times my limit.
Yes, I've seen this problem (or bug/exploit?) once before. I don't know what the cause is, but I'm guessing that there is either a bug with the experimental BT client, or the leecher was using some kind of exploit to ignore my upload limit. I don't know.

After I rebooted my computer, everything was okay again. But maybe only because the particular leecher was connecting to someone else... If I see this phenomenon again, I will pay more attention...

-- Sour-Do
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Old 2003-12-10, 20:40   Link #5
NightWish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sour-Do
... or the leecher was using some kind of exploit to ignore my upload limit.
That shouldn't be technically possible, as your client controls how much data it sends out; the worst the receiving client can do is fake the status of TCP session so that the data rate goes down -- it can't speed it up beyond what the client is willing to send.

It is possible, however, that what you are seeing is a "feature" of the client:
I've never found a conclusive answer in all the BitTorrent material I've read so can someone confirm that "--max_upload_rate" applies to all connections together? I've always assumed it was the total bandwidth (so divide by the number of connections to work out the max upload per connection); but it is just an assumption. If that is the case then it is conceivable that if the number of connections increases, the bandwidth used will go over the max_upload value -- i.e. If the max_upload per connection is not immediately re-calculated when the number of peers changes. I'd have to look at the code to be sure.

(Edit: You could see that as one peer downloading from you at x5 the rate and all the others at almost nothing if the one peer in question is on a noticeably faster connection...)
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Old 2003-12-11, 06:15   Link #6
Ainana
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I'm sorry, can you explain that again a little simpler? It could be just that it's past 3am here, and I've been juggling 3 projects all night, but I got totally lost....

Gomen Nasai!


Quote:
Originally Posted by NightWish
That shouldn't be technically possible, as your client controls how much data it sends out; the worst the receiving client can do is fake the status of TCP session so that the data rate goes down -- it can't speed it up beyond what the client is willing to send.

It is possible, however, that what you are seeing is a "feature" of the client:
I've never found a conclusive answer in all the BitTorrent material I've read so can someone confirm that "--max_upload_rate" applies to all connections together? I've always assumed it was the total bandwidth (so divide by the number of connections to work out the max upload per connection); but it is just an assumption. If that is the case then it is conceivable that if the number of connections increases, the bandwidth used will go over the max_upload value -- i.e. If the max_upload per connection is not immediately re-calculated when the number of peers changes. I'd have to look at the code to be sure.

(Edit: You could see that as one peer downloading from you at x5 the rate and all the others at almost nothing if the one peer in question is on a noticeably faster connection...)
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Old 2003-12-11, 21:41   Link #7
NightWish
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Red face

Firstly, in case you are wondering, I wasn't giving you a solution to your problem , just presenting possibly reasons for it. Lets try to explain again: When you start a download you set a limit on how quickly you want to upload. We'll call this Max Upload Rate.

My first assumption was that the Max Upload Rate is for the whole torrent and not for a single connection. Given this, BitTorrent needs to divide the Max Upload Rate by the current number of active connections to find out the Max Upload Rate per Connection -- once it knows this value it can limit the speed at which it sends data via those connections.

An example:
Max Upload Rate = 10 kbps
Current Active Connection = 5
Max Upload Rate per Connection = 10 / 5 = 2 kbps (Simple Maths )

Hence BitTorrent allows each connection to upload at 2 kbps.
Now suppose the number of connected clients increases:
Current Active Connection = 10

If the Max Upload Rate per Connection is not re-calculated, BitTorrent will still allow each connection to upload at 2 kbps. In the most extreme case (where everyone uses as much bandwidth as possible) the result is a total bandwidth usage as follows:
Total = Current Active Connection X Max Upload Rate per Connection = 10 x 2 = 20 kbps.

Clearly not everyone is going to be able to deal with that upload speed -- those that can (only one in your case) "appear" to be breaking the maximum upload settings.

I should stress this is just a possibility; I've not looked at how BitTorrent manages the upload limiting so I can't be sure. The more I think about it the less I believe it happens this way , but you wanted me to try to explain again so .. there you go.
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Old 2003-12-12, 01:16   Link #8
Ainana
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Hmm, but what actually happened was this. (Or something like this, I made the numbers up, but the ratios are about right)

If the max upload rate was 15:

Then the download rate of leechers was something like this:

Leecher one downloads from me at 5 kb/s
Leecher two downloads from me at 0kb/s.
Leecher three downloads from me at 0 kb/s.
Leecher four downloads at 88 kb/s.
Leecher five downloads at 4 kb/s.

Leecher number four is crazy over my max download limit and acting like it doesn't exist.

Whew, I'm so glad I caught it in time though... I almost went over my bandwidth limit.
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