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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana III - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 26 40.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 23 35.38%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 4 6.15%
7 out of 10 : Good 8 12.31%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 3.08%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 3.08%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-12-04, 22:48   Link #61
Giriath
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
There wouldn't be much of a fight scene if Tenmoku Ikko can slice through Magnesia like a knife on butter.
No, but at least there would be a scene.
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Old 2011-12-05, 00:31   Link #62
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Originally Posted by Giriath View Post
I don't know. That's an absurdly difficult thing for any author to accomplish, in any medium, and certainly not what I demand of a work of fiction to consider it above average.

I don't think it's a poor judgment of character to think it odd that Shana, who has trained to fight or fought Guze no Tomogara all her life, would be so frightened she was unable to move in that corridor. Or that she would hesitate to make every attempt of escape once the threat of the Trinity and Yuji (who she still may not be in a correct state of mind to fight) was gone.
The problem wasn't her state of mind but in fact the state of her powers. She was basically just a normal human even if they thought she might try something she could be caught and overpowered by the weakest of enemies still there. I doubt if cared they whether she'd tried to make every attempt to escape which I think the character grasped.

Quote:
And true enough, once they were she focused only on finding a chance to do so. Since she never once thought of summoning Nietono no Shana, I think we can safely conclude she did not know that was an option. That's why I think it's weird that she wouldn't be surprised that her desperate and last resort attempt actually worked.
I did say she was surprised. If you look at the scene again you'll see with the intake of breath and the movement of her head when she heard something coming down the hall does denote some level of surprise. She probably only realized what happened when she recognized Tenmoku Ikko.


Quote:
And if Tenmokku Ikko was really able to kill Fecor, at least credit him with a fight scene! I guess a prolonged fight would have looked silly though, with Fecor being the lone combatant with the ability of flight. But maybe Fecor could have considered the threat of Tenmokku Ikko bringing Shana the sword worth the risk of diving in for an attack, only to be unexpectedly crippled and defeated. I would have liked to see something like that though, instead of Tenmokku Ikko just walking through him (I guess he was just unlucky to be in the direct path Tenmokku Ikko was taking to Shana?).
A fight scene is completely unnecessary for such a minor character. You might prefer it but it adds nothing to the story whether he died on screen or off. He is a non-combat enemy; someone who would probably get killed by any third-rate flame haze if he did engage in combat.
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Old 2011-12-05, 05:31   Link #63
alvinkhorfire
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
His actual form is in Guze actually...all Flame Haze are like that

Tenpa Jyosai just lets him manifests on this world through the Flame Haze
I understand your point, but the problem is that it will be inconsistent with my understanding thus far.

Here are some statements from Gekijouban Shakugan no Shana, the Shana movie which, as we all agree, are more faithful to the novel:

Quote:
At 1 hour 4 minutes 58 seconds, Friagne said: "A Flame Haze uses its body as a container for a King of Guze to reside within."
At 1 hour 5 minutes 50 seconds, Friagne added: "it (the King of Guze) has no other choice but to return to Guze."
If the King of Guze, as you said, is in Guze, it needs not to return to Guze, since it is already in Guze. So, I cannot fit in your explantion into my existing understanding thus far. Perhaps, I have interpreted it wrongly?
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Old 2011-12-05, 06:39   Link #64
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Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire View Post
I understand your point, but the problem is that it will be inconsistent with my understanding thus far.

Here are some statements from Gekijouban Shakugan no Shana, the Shana movie which, as we all agree, are more faithful to the novel:


If the King of Guze, as you said, is in Guze, it needs not to return to Guze, since it is already in Guze. So, I cannot fit in your explantion into my existing understanding thus far. Perhaps, I have interpreted it wrongly?
It could still mean its consciousness will return to Guze.
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Old 2011-12-05, 06:46   Link #65
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This episode surprised me. At preview of episode 8, I thought the scenes with Tenmokku Ikko would be a flashback like how Shana remembered Merihim. But to my surprise, the invincible Mystes is back in action, and he kicks butt! - until he found the way back to his master at least.

Just wondering if Tenmokku Ikko intentionally went to Fecor first before going to Shana. Or did Fecor just happened to be in his path to Shana.

Another thing that surprise me in this episode is how much Shana trusts her sword. Just hold out her hand like that, trusting that he cut only the chain and not her hand. Maybe it's because they've been together for a long time already, so she has an idea on what he would do.
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Old 2011-12-05, 06:48   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Giriath View Post

Perhaps the most puzzling occurrence in this episode is that Tenmokku Ikko was able to cut through Fecor's Magnecia and kill him...I mean WTF. Very powerful flame haze haven't been able to do so in the past, but suddenly when it's important to the story that he die, BAM! he's dead. I suppose using those wings on his back to fly away from the slow-moving suit of armor (oh, wait; it suddenly learned to run in this episode) wouldn't occur to a character that is destined to die for there to be more drama and action.

Do you even know what Nietono no Shana is? Or just shooting off without knowing the whole picture?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Friagne died before those brats, though.
Am I the only one in both the Japanese and English otaku community who found the Aizens tragically endearing...

Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire View Post
I understand your point, but the problem is that it will be inconsistent with my understanding thus far.

Here are some statements from Gekijouban Shakugan no Shana, the Shana movie which, as we all agree, are more faithful to the novel:


If the King of Guze, as you said, is in Guze, it needs not to return to Guze, since it is already in Guze. So, I cannot fit in your explantion into my existing understanding thus far. Perhaps, I have interpreted it wrongly?
When it means container for the Lord, it means the manifestation or avatar if you will....

it's not full on posession per se....

Example, Asiz and Alastor. They do not manifest their entire existence with their Flame Hazes except in extreme circumstances. IE they don't fully cross over into this world unless the shit hits the fan

Quote:
And if Tenmokku Ikko was really able to kill Fecor, at least credit him with a fight scene! I guess a prolonged fight would have looked silly though, with Fecor being the lone combatant with the ability of flight. But maybe Fecor could have considered the threat of Tenmokku Ikko bringing Shana the sword worth the risk of diving in for an attack, only to be unexpectedly crippled and defeated. I would have liked to see something like that though, instead of Tenmokku Ikko just walking through him (I guess he was just unlucky to be in the direct path Tenmokku Ikko was taking to Shana?).
But there will be fighting alright.....

from all combatants later
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Old 2011-12-05, 07:24   Link #67
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Originally Posted by Giriath View Post
Shana appears seriously injured after the blast in the corridor--perhaps even unable to move her lower body, as she spends two minutes of our time crawling on her forearms. Then when the maid-rinne grabs her she is able to spring up, go ape-shit on it and then stand up and appear fine when Tenmokku Ikko appears.
'Fear' is the answer there. She was going to be taken by the Rinne and possibely die there if she stayed too long. Adrenaline shots through your body and you get new forces. Also she wasn't that much of incapacitated, just dazed by the explosion and the sudden collapse. As she said, 'she needed to carry on', for a Flame Haze that has fought countless situations like that one, it's not a surprise to see that she managed to recover...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giriath View Post
Perhaps the most puzzling occurrence in this episode is that Tenmokku Ikko was able to cut through Fecor's Magnecia and kill him...I mean WTF. Very powerful flame haze haven't been able to do so in the past, but suddenly when it's important to the story that he die, BAM! he's dead. I suppose using those wings on his back to fly away from the slow-moving suit of armor (oh, wait; it suddenly learned to run in this episode) wouldn't occur to a character that is destined to die for there to be more drama and action.
Nietono no Shana is, as described in the novels, a high class weapon. It can cut through anything, be it an object or a spell. And it will definitely never break. Plus, Tenmokku Ikko is immune to all kind of Unrestricted Spells, so I'm guessing that this two things combined made the job of defeating his enemies a kids' game.

Besides, Fecor is not that powerfull. Magnesia is his only known attack so once you get pass it there isn't much of a fighter to beat. Also, Tenmokku was the fear of both, Flame Hazes and Denizens, to the point that they even got away from Asia to scape from him (before Shana's iniciation), so yes, he is pretty powerfull and Fecor didn't stand a chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Am I the only one in both the Japanese and English otaku community who found the Aizens tragically endearing...
I didn't found it endearing but it was a good arc , I still like Sorath's novel version better tho. They could have omitted the kissing, but well, they were the villains so they needed to be hated so their death would not be cryed.
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Old 2011-12-05, 07:28   Link #68
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Welp, so Tenmoku Ikko is an Immovable Object and an Unstoppable Force at the same time?

First time grasping that, and it's quite shocking.
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Old 2011-12-05, 07:33   Link #69
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Welp, so Tenmoku Ikko is an Immovable Object and an Unstoppable Force at the same time?

First time grasping that, and it's quite shocking.
Makes me wonder if it isn't better to summon him instead of using the blade. Immune to spells. Fast enough to cut through a whole army. Resistant to any kind of weapon.
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Old 2011-12-05, 08:16   Link #70
Cosmic Eagle
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I didn't found it endearing but it was a good arc , I still like Sorath's novel version better tho. They could have omitted the kissing, but well, they were the villains so they needed to be hated so their death would not be cryed.
Talking about the Aizens themselves...not the arc....

So they're incestuous....don't see why that should make them so hated though...

Quote:
Welp, so Tenmoku Ikko is an Immovable Object and an Unstoppable Force at the same time?

First time grasping that, and it's quite shocking.
Bal Masque has Sydonay so it's not like they're disadvantaged....
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Old 2011-12-05, 08:22   Link #71
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It's going to be bloody.... She just returned her "cuteness" back inside the closet.....

"Yuuji, WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU!!!!!
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Old 2011-12-05, 08:55   Link #72
Kristen
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^ You have a point there.

EDIT:



Well, if you do belong to the kind of people who are "able to analyze and criticize Shakugan no Shana", then you should express your views in the General Discussion thread or the Light Novels thread. The thread needs to be back on track, you know.
Aye. Friagne and the twins died. Everyone else was either in the past, or they're still around. And that's really a flaw of the series. I mean, Sabrac really should have died in season 2. What's the point of just showing him around in season 3? The professor should have died somewhere along the line too, but I guess that he was just brought along too early in the series in order for JC Staff to get their concluding anime original arcs. Well, Sabrac and Fecor were the ones who bugged me about not getting killed off yet, so maybe Sabrac will be going soon?
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Old 2011-12-05, 09:03   Link #73
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Well, Sabrac's situation will change, that's for sure.
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Old 2011-12-05, 09:34   Link #74
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I think you will find an answer for that in the novel thread...
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Old 2011-12-05, 13:34   Link #75
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Don't want spoilers, so I'll pass on that.
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Old 2011-12-05, 18:39   Link #76
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Is it just me, or does it seem like Tenmoku is stronger than Shana with her sword? And I thought Fecor's defense cube was supposed to be something very sturdy, since the idea was supported by one of the strongest flame hazes. Tenmoku manages to slice it like butter. Would Shana with her sword be able to do the same?

And A+ to Kugimiya at Shana going crazy a$$ b!tch. Though I dunno where she got her strength to stab that rock-head to oblivion, when she barely had enough strength to crawl on the ground. Adrenaline ftw, I guess.
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Old 2011-12-05, 18:49   Link #77
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^ Just like previously explained, Tenmoku Ikko's Mystes body was immune to all Unrestricted Spells. Adding the fact that the Nietono no Shana is an anti-magic sword makes Fecor seem like mere fodder to the Tenmoku Ikko. This is the reason why he is feared throughout Asia as the "most dangerous Mystes in existence".

Shana could slice Magnesia, but without the absolute protection from spells, she would get clobbered eventually.
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Old 2011-12-05, 19:36   Link #78
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And A+ to Kugimiya at Shana going crazy a$$ b!tch. Though I dunno where she got her strength to stab that rock-head to oblivion, when she barely had enough strength to crawl on the ground. Adrenaline ftw, I guess.
I don't think she was struggling to move herself, but I think she was trying to get the sword, or Tenmoku Iko to wake up to get the sword to her.

Also, after I re-watched the episode, I adored it even more! I understood a lot more stuff, and I can't wait for the next one!
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Old 2011-12-06, 00:04   Link #79
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So, unless they come up with a comeback for Fecor (which I really hope not...), I guess this would be the first death of any major character since like Sorath/Tiriel in season 1, right? And hopefully more are going to come, since Shana is a bit character heavy now.
The story of Season 1 and Season 2 mainly revolves around Shana, Yuji, Wilhelmina and Margery. The difference is that Season 3 will involve an all-out battle between Flame Hazes and Bal Masque. For sure, it will involve Flame Hazes and Crimson Denizens from all over the world, making this anime naturally character heavy.
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Is it just me, or does it seem like Tenmoku is stronger than Shana with her sword?
We all should agree that the stronger combination occurs if Tenmoku himself is using the katana, rather than Shana herself. However, if that is the case, then this anime would not be called as Shakugan no SHANA.
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Has the Nietono-no-Shana always been able to eat existence like it did whenever Tenmoku Ikku killed a Denizen?
In my opinion, that is not the case. The katana acts as a conduit that channels the flame from Shana towards her opponents. For the same reason, the power of existence was channelled through the sword to Tenmoku. In short, the katana cannot consume the power of existence by itself. Correct me if I have said anything wrong.
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Old 2011-12-06, 18:50   Link #80
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Mmm... regarding the "convenience" of Tenmoku returning the sword at that specific time (which some like Giriath have said in this thread)...

As an anime-only viewer, the impression I got from this scene was that Tenmoku (who only gives the sword to people who are strong) waited until Shana "proved" her superiority by defeating that Rinne as a weak piddling human.

Maybe I'm seeing too much into things...
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