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Old 2011-11-24, 06:03   Link #61
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozen Van Kaizer View Post
People would definitely tolerate Yozora more if the animators included these 1 LITTLE SCENE. It could even be just 1 FRAME FOR JUST 3 SECONDS long for all I care. This expression is priceless!
I understand what you're suggesting by this frame/scene, and I think I agree with you that this is what the story is ultimately trying to say about Yozora's teasing of Sana: that it's sort of "we tease those we love". This is also suggested by Yozora's comment in the previous frame, "there's no helping her". It's sort of a "she's got to learn to be able to take it so she can start really dishing back". At the very least, it's not because she hates her, or she really deeply believes all the insults she dishes out. (Though I do think she's been a bit jealous of Sana since day one and that plays a small part.)

But by the same token, I should point out that this scene can be taken a different way if you're looking at it differently. You could say that scene shows Sena running of crying, and Yozora being pleased with herself for having done so. I personally don't think that's what it says (as it isn't consistent with the overall message of the show), but I think people could see it that way if it more closely matches their perception/interpretation.

In any case, as was said earlier, I agree that general reaction/opinion will change when the show starts developing her character further, which I have no doubt will happen at some point (I might guess they'll be something by the end of this season, though that's without knowing the source).
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Old 2011-12-02, 13:02   Link #62
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I don't find her to be a bully at all.
I honestly believe you guys over rate Sena.
Spoiled rotten brat, imo she thinks to high of her self.
yozora really just brings down to the little spoiled immature brat she really is.
another example is how she treats kabato.
yozoras may seems a bit fierce on the attacks, yet is seems to hurts her more in the end.

i'll take the fierceness over that over rated Sena any day.
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Old 2011-12-02, 13:17   Link #63
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well yozora has thrown more hints to this point specially in the anime, one example is in the cellphone episode when she was harrasing sena and sena went out running she said "she gives up easy" thou this scene is better potrayed in the LN, i just think that yozora is just trying to correct sena's behaviour in her way.
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Old 2011-12-03, 16:08   Link #64
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Originally Posted by demonkevy666 View Post
yozora really just brings down to the little spoiled immature brat she really is.
This is actually the key to their dynamic, and why their fights are so efficient in establishing Sena and Yozora. Their fights highlight key character flaws that help to illustrate why neither of them has any friends outside of the club.

The humiliation of the prideful ojou-sama seems to be a pretty common gag, actually, and the show follows the formula up to a point: Sena boasts and belittles others, and Yozora exposes her insecurities and fibs for all to see. However, it takes an unusual turn after that, and Yozora's flaw is revealed: She just doesn't have the social skills to know when to stop, and it either stops being funny, or it becomes even more funny depending on who you ask. Either way, the joke is on both of them, because Kodaka isn't impressed with Sena's preening, or Yozora's abuse.

Yozora clearly doesn't intend it this way. Didn't she say herself that she just wants Sena to fight back with her? She's just lousy at reading the situation. Probably because she hasn't had real friends in so long. Perhaps she came to rely on her "air-friend" after whatever caused her and Kodaka to miss one another in the past, and her social skills just never developed after that.
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Old 2011-12-07, 16:12   Link #65
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I wonder when we'll start to see her pushing Kodaka's memories some more, maybe once she starts seeing Sena getting closer to him? I think it's obvious that Kodaka has always been her primary goal in making the club (and that she is trying to deny the other friendships she is making.)

Yozora's so fragile, it's amazing how much she holds in. I really hope they don't skip a snap scene, because she's building up to that very well. She'll break eventually, hopefully in a very plot-fulfilling way.
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Old 2011-12-07, 23:24   Link #66
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I'm laughing at whoever wrote the bio for Yozora on myanimelist. They really don't try to hide the fact that they dislike her.
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Old 2011-12-07, 23:33   Link #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonkevy666 View Post
I honestly believe you guys over rate Sena.
I still don't understand how the word "overrated" mean. Does that mean when you hate someone who is loved by many, that person is overrated? Does it feel good to like underrated character?

Maybe I should work myself to like Yozora too .
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Old 2011-12-08, 08:38   Link #68
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
Does that mean when you hate someone who is loved by many, that person is overrated? Does it feel good to like underrated character?
I agree with what you're trying to say in the first question, but I also cannot saying he's wrong in thinking Sena is overrated.

Why? Because whatever definitions or criteria (for the character to fulfill) for one to consider a character as overrated or underrated are determined entirely by the individual. He has his reasons (which you may not agree with. Heck, even I don't agree with them), the same as you have yours.

Just saying.

As for your second question, I don't think anyone's reasons for liking a character would have any thing to do with their popularity.

I liked Yozora from day one, and her character only got more fascinating and complex with every novel (compared to the others, who are mostly one dimensional characters since the start). And that had nothing to do with her being popular or not (as if that has any ground for justifying one's love for a character).
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Old 2011-12-08, 21:22   Link #69
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Originally Posted by VVolf View Post
As for your second question, I don't think anyone's reasons for liking a character would have any thing to do with their popularity.
I was not saying it's the reason for liking a character. I'm just asking does it feel good to like unpopular character, because some people sound as they are superior to other for liking a character that's supposed to be "deep" than the other ones.
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Old 2011-12-09, 01:31   Link #70
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*waits for Yozora to drop the "Taka" bomb on Kodaka*
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Old 2011-12-10, 09:21   Link #71
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*waits for Yozora to drop the "Taka" bomb on Kodaka*
Cannot wait for it.
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Old 2011-12-10, 09:39   Link #72
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It really is to blame that the season will end soon, because the interesting part of the story is just about to begin.
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Old 2011-12-11, 07:06   Link #73
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Personally, I like them both..

Sena doesn't have any experience with females besides the servants at her house (which begs to the question why does she let Yozora's teasing get to her when Stella's teasing could be considered the same or worse...maybe its because Yozora's the same age?) so she doesn't know how to react properly to teasing and just 'horsing around' in general..

Yozora seems to lack the wisdom to know when 'too far, is too far' (Something I lack as well...and I'm 26! lol) so she tends to push Sena away in what seems to be a verbally (and sometimes physically) violent manner. A good example is the SPAM thing (even though I believe Sena would'v done the exact same thing given the chance) for a good example for physical...when Sena brought in eroge...

...Yeah...you can't tease Rika...in fact..I'd be almost scared to cause you might set her off in a completely different direction than what you'd want *wink*
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Old 2011-12-11, 12:59   Link #74
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Originally Posted by mironicus View Post
It really is to blame that the season will end soon, because the interesting part of the story is just about to begin.
True. But since considering how this season will end (with the ending of volume 3), it would make advertising for, as well as the transition into, season 2 that much easier. It's a good move, and also hints that a second season is probable.

Unless they try for an original ending of course...which I doubt, because that would be a stupid move.
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Old 2011-12-11, 13:19   Link #75
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The ending of the show should be concluded in a movie.
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Old 2011-12-12, 23:49   Link #76
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Originally Posted by nestea2004 View Post
*waits for Yozora to drop the "Taka" bomb on Kodaka*
agree...

*counting calenders...
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Old 2011-12-13, 07:21   Link #77
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Hey guys/gals new here, been lurking for a while and i thought i'd pitch my tent here. There seems to be some interesting discussions going on here.

Anyway i'm amazed at the level of dislike i'm seeing people have for Yozora from the likes of here, MAL and other sites/blogs. One thing i see contiously repeated is that she goes to far but has anything she's said or done ever extended beyong juvenile skin deep insults that have no lasting effect on the person she is antagonising? Would the likes of Sena or Maria keep returning to the club if that wasn't the case?

The way i've viewed it, is when Sena runs away crying its more due to the frustration of not being able to match wits with Yozora more than her words or actions actually upsetting her e.g. accepting "meat" as a nickname. Sena is very pretty, rich, top grades and strives to be the best at everything she does. A deadly combination which in her mind, makes her the near perfect specimen and the chosen one to be loved, worshipped and to rule over the commoners. In their exchanges, Yozora shatters that self perception as well as the social hierarchical wall (Which Kodaka manages to do also) that Sena places between herself and the other club members. Of course not being able to go toe to toe or being humbled is never nice. So to gain the sympathy from those watching from the outside, she reacts in an over dramatically fashion to cement Yozora's place in the malevolent position that Yozora happily puts herself in. Its needless to say it has worked to a tee.

I also agree that Yozora was hostile towards Sena due to jelousy of the popularity that she thought Sena had and the fear that Kodaka may become another one of her many bootlickers. Atleast initially but soon afterwards and as it is now, she mostly does it for enjoyment.

At the end of the day, they both like each other deep down. Sena is more open with wanting to be friends and clearly cares about Yozora's opinion of her along with Kodaka's. Yozora on the other hand is more subtle. When you look at the karaoke episode, Yozora goes out of her way to take the sting out of Sena having to swallow her pride and embarrisngly ask to be included in their plans by making herself be the bad guy in that situation.


One last thing, i'm also interested to know if the guys who dislike Yozora also dislike anti-heroic characters in general? like Cartman, House, Bender, Roger ect.

Anyway just my 2 pence.
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Old 2011-12-13, 17:39   Link #78
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No need to sugarcoat Yozora for she's the way she is and Kodaka is fairly aware of it. Just as he's aware how broken Sena is on other areas. I suppose being a bit mean can get to some, but this is not miss universe competition. It is a romantice comedy, so I feel political correctness and generic niceties are not mandatory and I fully welcome a character who is a bit of a character(!!) I would hate to see a comedy show with polite and cute/cuddly characters only - there are only so many archtypes you can have and to narrow them to the 'nice' type is even more of a restricton.

The Karaoke episode really is just Yozora teasing Sena. It would be too much of a stretch to suggest Yozora was helping out Sena. Sena dug a hole, Yozora buried her for fun. Yozora knows at the end of the day Sena will join regardless, but is amused by how long Sena played along (or into?) her teasing.

I really think many dislike Yozora not because of her personality but because their favourite Sena got served most of the time.
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Old 2011-12-13, 19:37   Link #79
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Originally Posted by ImagineThat View Post
One last thing, i'm also interested to know if the guys who dislike Yozora also dislike anti-heroic characters in general? like Cartman, House, Bender, Roger ect.

Anyway just my 2 pence.
I guess they don't see her as funny or interesting like the examples you mentioned. Honestly, I do though. And people always seem to forget that Sena isn't perfect either. The main problem I have though is that Yozora isn't exactly a fleshed out character, and considering she's in the main trio, that's problematic.
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Old 2011-12-13, 21:01   Link #80
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Being fleshed out is not necessarily the best thing that can happen to a character. Complacency. With Sena, what additional piece of information have we learnt about her personality wise since say vol 3 of the novel? Is there any extra dimensions to her character or she's already been molded into a particular sterotype? We know what will happen everytime Yozora gets on a roll with Sena, but is that the benefit of a character being fleshed out or is that a shortcoming? Yozora is enigmatic - her family background is not known at all. Her likes/dislikes are not clear because she doesn't express her feelings as freely as some others. We sort of know what pushes her buttons but what may push her over the edge?
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