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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 25 47.17%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 30.19%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 7 13.21%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 3.77%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 3.77%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.89%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-12-15, 17:39   Link #21
Kazu-kun
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I couldn't care less about pairings anymore. I'm just mad Ringo got trolled by Momoka like this.
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Old 2011-12-15, 21:09   Link #22
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the last episode reveals Kanba was good all along and was secretly working with Momoka to bring Sanetoshi down. It's a real possibility now.

I actually really would not mind this. Although I am not really sure how they can explain away the people Kanba killed, there are all those secret meetings Kanba had with the Penguin hat.

Anyways it's hard for me to say what I feel about this episode without subs. I thought the direction was splendid as always but there were definitely some things I was not pleased about (the series did have one too many "fake death" scenes).

I am also not happy with all the shipping teases. I think Ikuhara said he did not care about shipping. I understand and I am perfectly fine with a series that focuses on family & friendship over romance but I hope Ikuhara did not develop Shouma & Ringo just to throw it away in the end. That will disappoint me (and actually I liked Ringo & Shouma's little moment more than the Himari/Shouma one...even though the H/S scene was beautifully done, I found the R/S scene more quietly powerful and more real if that makes sense).


However I have to say I was shocked that is what the Ringo "fire scene" in the opening was. I never saw that coming. Yes I did feel bad seeing Ringo like that but I have to admit that scene was really well done. I still hope Ringo gets to show what she is worth in the end.

And actually I like that the diary was a misdirection, that was well played in my opinion.


Also finally Shouma gets to be important and do something (took them long enough)!
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Old 2011-12-15, 21:32   Link #23
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Spoiler for ep23:
I like that too. I just don't like they way it was done.
Spoiler for ep23:
EDIT:
As for the ship tease... yes, it's retarded, but I couldn't care less at this point. All the "romance" in this series seems so fake right now it's impossible to take it seriously.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-12-15 at 22:15.
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Old 2011-12-15, 21:43   Link #24
Kirarakim
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Perhaps Ringo not getting on the train is just another misdirection by Ikuhara. I mean that would be surprising (and not in a good way) if that's the last we see of her, so I won't judge until the final episode.
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Old 2011-12-15, 22:02   Link #25
Kazu-kun
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Well, I'm just playing safe. I don't want to get more disappointed than I already am. Besides, I don't think Ikuhara's "surprises" have been all that good to begin with. The guy is way too obsessed about surprising the audience, and not careful enough to keep his plot in check.

EDIT: btw, you probably should use spoiler tags.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-12-15 at 22:16.
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Old 2011-12-16, 02:34   Link #26
YayPepsi
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(Spoilers)

Well, after watching the subs, I'm pretty sure that Kanba isn't a double agent for Momoka. It could happen I guess, but he seemed genuinely impressed by Sanetoshi's magic trick and like he was totally down for whatever Sanetoshi has planned. I still think he'll be saved at the end though, even more strongly than I did in the last episode. But with Ikuhara, who knows? I don't want to get my hopes up for anything because I know they'll probably be crushed.

I wonder what happened to make Sanetoshi hate the world so much in the first place? There's still a lot of questions to answer about him. He's one of the last mysteries we have to solve (him and Momoka) and I think in the next episode we'll get another flashback with him.
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Old 2011-12-16, 03:10   Link #27
ScudFace
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To understand why sanetoshi hates the world so much you need to understand the mentality of the people who joined Aum Shinrikyo. Basically everything he saids in this episode is a reflection of the hatred and worldview of the members of that cult. Even the fact that he was a doctor at Himari's hospital is a reference to the profile of the cult member that carried out the subway attack.
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Old 2011-12-16, 03:34   Link #28
Sides
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That was a nice trip.
Still does not answers what Mario is all about. Considering that the two hats are Momoka, why did she choose to be around Masako?
As for Himari, she is obviously a pawn to lure Kanba on the darkside, seeing that Sanetoshi can actually revive the dead.
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Old 2011-12-16, 06:46   Link #29
Nikkan
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Spoiler for Random bits and thoughts from 23:
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Old 2011-12-16, 07:19   Link #30
ndqanh_vn
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The episode is good. Cant wait for the new episode...

Honestly, me too, becomes very curious as what kind of person Sanetoshi really is. I think he's more or less a representation of a group of people, a mentality that spreads like a disease in Japan around the time of Aum sarin attack.

Ikuhara find a way to touch a dark part of Japanese history in his highly metaphorical way, I will give him credit for that.

The downside is, well, at that point in time we really don't feel much care for characters any more...Except from my Ringo, but too bad, it seemed her part has ended. In that case I will complain a bit about the show balance. It should spend less time on Ringo's Project M at the begining and spend more time on resolving the story, in my opinion.
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Old 2011-12-16, 07:48   Link #31
Lota
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I agree that now the story is all over the place, but it's still very entertaining. There's no point in guessing what's going to happen next, cuz we're gonna get trolled, so lets just watch it for fun. And this episode was a real treat. I guess this series is gonna go out with a bang, whatever the ending will be, it will probably be strong and surprising.

As for this episode, it was fun getting inside Sanetoshi's head The scene between Ringo and Shouma was very touching. It's great when you find someone you can understand without words, and seeing them like that made me very happy (I'm so glad he didn't push her away). That was just... perfect.

I loved Kanba's expression when Sanetoshi showed him that Masako died. It's nice to know that he cares about his real sister too. I don't know what to make of Shouma and Himari's kiss. The whole scene was beautiful, I can't decide if the kiss was out of place or not, and I sure as hell can't understand their relationship. He cares for her deeply, but it doesn't seem like he loves her romantically. Yet he didn't push her away either. I just don't get it. Just like I still can't figure out what was going on between Kanba and (now confirmed) Momoka in the Survival strategy all the time.

What I don't like is that Momoka was using others as well, instead of telling them what was really going on. I told you she wasn't as good as she seemed... Ah, Kanba hugging Shouma was also nice (except for the part where he, you know, shot him O.O ). And poor Ringo-chan... burning. I wonder if this is really the end of the diary... And I hope she's ok and she doesn't inhale too much smoke...

Damn... So this is ending next week, huh? Seems too short, even though the series was 24 episodes long... I can't wait, the last episode will be a (hopefully) nice gift before Christmas
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Old 2011-12-16, 09:24   Link #32
Gohan78
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Himari's kiss to Shouma was a farewell kiss because she knows that she is gonna die tomorrow. I think that Himari loves Sho romantically but Sho only sees her as a little sister. This episode actually strenghened the RingoXShouma pairing IMO. I really liked their silent hug in the snow.

As for Kanba's chances of survival, it could go either way IMO. Momoka said that both of the brothers are needed to stop Sanetoshi's plan, so the final confrontation should be Sho trying to convince Kan to get back with him. At this point either Kan and Sho defeat Sanetoshi together or Kanba sacrifices himself for the greater good. The discolored hand in the ending animation makes me fear the latter.

Concerning the diary, I am actually happy that it got burned because a resolution where Ringo magically rewrites history in exchange for her own life would have been extremely disappointing.
I'd like Ringo to have at least a small chat with her big sister. I don't think that Momoka "trolled" Ringo. Maybe the diary is irrelevant because what's important is the spell in itself. But even if Momoka was using the diary as a decoy, she did it for the greater good.
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Old 2011-12-16, 09:27   Link #33
mark1246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I doubt it.
Spoiler for ep23:
Holy crap i would of never of Guess! Momoka Is the two penguin hats and the Penguindrum might be the white bear doing a mech a fight i think ?

but was that really Momoka with that foul-mouth bitch being such a troll? Iím mean she swear a lot and is so mean to shouma and kana! I still canít believe that was Momoka!
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Old 2011-12-16, 09:51   Link #34
mark1246
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Hey i just wanted to know if anyone notice that in the middle of the comical there that train sequence that move from 1 episode to another after half time break when you see the white orb moving from 1 episode to another

NOW i saw that it was moving to Ep 24 but then there was another White orb left!! What could this BE!?!?!?!

Episode 25, and OVA?

what are your thoughts ?
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Old 2011-12-16, 10:10   Link #35
Kanon
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So, Mario turned out to be completely irrelevant, eh? I remember how excited we were back when he was introduced, boy we sure were trolled. It was obvious enough that Momoka was PoC, but her being BOTH penguin hats is just so... WTF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It's different. There are things in Penguindrum that were never foreshadowed or hinted at. And sometimes Ikuhara even went out of his way to deceive the audience by throwing tons of misdirections.

Don't get me wrong. I don't mind twists, and some red herring/misdirection is ok. But when 80% of the "foreshadowing" is just misdirection you end up a bit worn out. I least that's what happened to me with this series. Over time I really lost the ability to care about the story because it's all over the place, and ultimately I lost the ability to care about the characters because there's never real consequences to what they do.
I feel exactly the same way you do. I used to absolutely love this series but by now I've almost stopped caring about it. The spark is gone. I feel like I'm watching a different show ever since episode 19 or so.

Thankfully, it's not all bad. There was so damn good scenes in there, like that Ringo x Shoma under the snow and Himari's farewell to Shoma.
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Old 2011-12-16, 10:10   Link #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
Maybe the diary is irrelevant because what's important is the spell in itself. But even if Momoka was using the diary as a decoy, she did it for the greater good.
Yea, it's possible the diary never had the spell. Ringo had it for years and never recalls having coming across it.
It's also quite likely that Momoka was able to talk through the hat only after the diary got burned.

Anyways, I hope the ending really be one of those which will be talked of for months maybe even years (in a good way )
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Old 2011-12-16, 10:30   Link #37
-Sho-
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This show is so great. I'm not bored. Add the penguins which gave us some hilarious moments

Spoiler for I guess:
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Old 2011-12-16, 10:52   Link #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post

Anyways it's hard for me to say what I feel about this episode without subs. I thought the direction was splendid as always but there were definitely some things I was not pleased about (the series did have one too many "fake death" scenes).

I am also not happy with all the shipping teases. I think Ikuhara said he did not care about shipping. I understand and I am perfectly fine with a series that focuses on family & friendship over romance but I hope Ikuhara did not develop Shouma & Ringo just to throw it away in the end. That will disappoint me (and actually I liked Ringo & Shouma's little moment more than the Himari/Shouma one...even though the H/S scene was beautifully done, I found the R/S scene more quietly powerful and more real if that makes sense).

However I have to say I was shocked that is what the Ringo "fire scene" in the opening was. I never saw that coming. Yes I did feel bad seeing Ringo like that but I have to admit that scene was really well done. I still hope Ringo gets to show what she is worth in the end.
Very good post, and I agree with all of this.


Ultimately, I'm glad that the diary was properly addressed. Unlike some viewers, I would have been perfectly fine with an ending in which Ringo uses the diary to resolve the main conflicts of the narrative. It's not as if this narrative isn't absolutely loaded with bizarre magical/surreal elements as it is.

However, Ringo using the diary that way certainly wasn't the only way this anime could have a good ending, so I'm fine with the story going a different route. As is, I'm glad that the diary at least wasn't a massive hanging plot thread, as Sanetoshi still had to see to its destruction. The Ringo-on-fire OP symbolism also wasn't totally invalidated due to how Ringo actually did come in contact with fire in this episode. Well played, Ikuhara.

My view is that Ringo may have served her main role now. Oh, I'd be shocked if we don't see any more of her before it's all said and done, but the key players in resolving this narrative's conflicts do look to be Kanba and Shouma.


Now, while I agree with the criticism that there's too many "fake death" scenes in this anime, I never found this episode particularly asspull-esque.

Kanba is still trying to save Himari at all costs, Shouma is still strongly against Kanba's terrorist activities, and Sanetoshi checkmated Ringo in order to deal with a clear and very well-established threat to him. The revelations made in this episode were not entirely out of left field either. In fact, I like the idea that Momoka was split between the two Penguin Hats, as this can help justify her Himari hat personality being so vastly different from her flashback personality. All in all, this was a reasonable way for the plot to develop after last episode, and I credit Plot Twist King Ikuhara for at least taking the care to ensure that certain key inconsistencies didn't creep into his narrative.

My only slight disappointment here is in how we never get to see how Kanba managed to slip away from the police. Presumably he made his getaway while Natsume was taken out (leading to her revival in this episode), but it still would have been nice to have seen a bit of that simply to tie this episode more tightly into the last.


Putting the story aside, what I find with Penguin Drum is that the "total package" is excellent. The characterization, the visuals, the voice-acting, the BGM, the scene transitions, and the plot all come together to create a whole that's greater than the sum of its parts. Everything just fits like a glove in this, as no character feels out of place or underused/overused, and each element compliments each other element. As such, though I do share your criticisms, I still find this to be a highly entertaining and well-produced anime overall.

But the big moment, of course, is the ending. I hope that it's not overly difficult to pick sense out of. It'll probably have deeper symbolism that people will carefully analyze for years to come, but I'd still like the "surface level" plot to be solid and comprehensible with a satisfying ending. If so, MPD will be one of the very best anime shows of 2011 for me.
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Old 2011-12-16, 11:20   Link #39
klare
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again so many things happened/revealed, sad to see Ringo cried while lying in the fire...

feels like the word "penguindrum" finally appear again after so many eps

as for the ending, i am guessing and hoping it will be Sanetoshi being defeated and the family back together again
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Old 2011-12-16, 12:00   Link #40
Utsuro no Hako
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I don't know why everyone thinks Momoka lied about the Penguin Drum. All she's ever said is that RIngo's the key to finding it. Sho and Kan are the ones who assumed it's the diary, but Momoka's always been cagey when asked about it.
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