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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10 25 47.17%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 16 30.19%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 7 13.21%
7 out of 10 : Good 2 3.77%
6 out of 10 : Average 2 3.77%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.89%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-12-17, 11:48   Link #81
mysh
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
She was comforting him about Himari.

It was not a goodbye scene because later on she was in his home saying she was going to bring him clothes to the hospital before she got that call from Kanba.
I did not mean "farewell scene" in the sense that they would never speak with each other again. But it seemed to me that it was somehow meant to show us that they stopped dating and went their own ways - with Ringo continuing to help Shouma as a friend should.

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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Last time I checked Shouma did not realize what condition Ringo was in. Anyways he is running to stop his brother & Sanetoshi from hurting many people. I don't see how you can call him selfish for that.
Well, quite a lot of people have been saying here and on some other boards that this must be the end of Ringo's part in the story. If it is really so, it seems to me most unjust, I repeat.
I do not call Shouma selfish because right now he is trying to stop Kanba; it is the feeling I got from his behaviour (as a grown-up) in eps. 13-23 - being selfish and emo and weak.
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Old 2011-12-17, 11:51   Link #82
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Originally Posted by Jin Kizuite View Post
Kinda on the ropes if Tabuki survived from last episode.
Well, he doesn't have the white sheet on his face, so I can safely assume so. YuriXTabuki FTW!

As for the rest of the cast, as long as Himari survives, that's all I care about. Though truth be told, I'm leaning more towards Sho than Kanba right now, but that's mainly due to how they spent an entire episode showing Sho saving Himari from the child broiler, while Kanba only got a fleeting scene with Himari. And at least Sho isn't looking to be a wuss now... hoping great things from him in the final episode.
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Old 2011-12-17, 11:57   Link #83
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Originally Posted by mysh View Post
I did not mean "farewell scene" in the sense that they would never speak with each other again. But it seemed to me that it was somehow meant to show us that they stopped dating and went their own ways - with Ringo continuing to help Shouma as a friend should.
Well, I don't think they were dating to begin with.

That scene did feel like a "farewell" though, but from our perspective, not theirs. As in foreshadowing that, unbeknown to them, they wouldn't see each other ever again.
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Old 2011-12-17, 11:58   Link #84
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Originally Posted by mysh View Post
I did not mean "farewell scene" in the sense that they would never speak with each other again. But it seemed to me that it was somehow meant to show us that they stopped dating and went their own ways - with Ringo continuing to help Shouma as a friend should.
Well that still doesn't make any sense because they were never officially dating in the first place and have always just been friends.


Quote:
Well, quite a lot of people have been saying here and on some other boards that this must be the end of Ringo's part in the story. If it is really so, it seems to me most unjust, I repeat.
If this is the end of Ringo's role in the story than I will also find it unjust but I don't think we should judge until we know that for certain.

Quote:
I do not call Shouma selfish because right now he is trying to stop Kanba; it is the feeling I got from his behaviour (as a grown-up) in eps. 13-23 - being selfish and emo and weak.
I don't think Shouma was ever selfish (and I think that is the wrong word for his negative behavior). The problem with Shouma is he doesn't understand his own self worth and if anything because of that pushes people away thinking its for their best when it's really not.

But the point is Shouma is finally doing something right & taking action. I admit it took the story way too long to get this point but I guess I don't understand why be upset with Shouma now of all times when he finally moving in the right direction?
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Old 2011-12-17, 12:50   Link #85
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I find Ringo to be the most likable character in this anime, and she's a wonderful character in general, possibly my favorite in the entire anime.

So I do feel a bit sorry for her if she doesn't get a cool and/or happy moment the rest of the way.

That being said, Ringo has consistently been tricked by other major cast members. Natsume did it, Yuri did it, Tabuki did it, and now Kanba did it. Ikuhara has done a superb job of making Ringo's blind trust in close acquaintances and friends, as well as her general naivete, her achilles heel.

Ringo must have known by this episode that Kanba Takakura is a notorious terrorist leader with blood on his hands, and that he's probably Japan's most wanted man right now. No matter how close she might be to the Takakuras, Kanba is not someone Ringo should have trusted so easily.

Now I don't dislike this about Ringo, but it makes her tragic defeat in this episode that much more poignant because it's due to a real and purposeful character flaw. I like how the various victories and failures that these characters achieve and suffer is due to their inherent strengths and weaknesses, and not plot contrivances.


Also, for a split second, I honestly thought that Kanba had killed Ringo with a bomb. I'm glad she wasn't killed, because that would have been the final straw for me. I'd not only find that a very sad end for Ringo, but it would also put Kanba completely over the line for me, to the point where I'm not even sure I'd be comfortable with Shouma making up with him.

So, at least Ringo is still alive. Who knows? Maybe she'll get a happy end with Shouma. It's possible. Almost anything is still possible with this anime. That's a big part of the reason why MPD Episode 24 will be my most highly anticipated anime watch since Madoka Magica Episodes 11/12.
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Old 2011-12-17, 15:22   Link #86
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I look forward to finding out how Kanba will react when he realises he's been tricked by Sanetoshi. Since Himari has the hat (a part of Momoka), his plan definitely doesn't involve healing her, he might even want to kill her himself (well, no need for that since she's dying anyway).

My guess is there will be a final confrontation between Momoka and Sanetoshi, but, perhaps, not between Kanba and Shouma. If Kanba realises he's been tricked in time (or if Momoka talks to him), maybe they can defeat Sanetoshi together.

Himari will probably die... which is still not fair. I just wish for a happy ending for everyone, but, under these circumstances, I don't think that can happen... I'd like Himari to stay alive, I don't want Kanba to sacrifice himself (he has done horrible things, I know, but, even though many of you hate him, if you look at the bigger picture, he was the one who got hurt the most, he even threw his concience away... If he dies, even thogh it would be a sacrifice, it still wouldn't be fair). I want Shouma to do something (but please don't die...). Ikuhara made everything so complex... But that's why I love this series. Even though now the story is all over the place, the series as a whole was sure... something big. There are series that might not be perfect, but they just shine and stay in you memory for a long, long time... This is one of them
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Old 2011-12-17, 15:44   Link #87
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
That being said, Ringo has consistently been tricked by other major cast members. Natsume did it, Yuri did it, Tabuki did it, and now Kanba did it. Ikuhara has done a superb job of making Ringo's blind trust in close acquaintances and friends, as well as her general naivete, her achilles heel.
In all honesty I cannot fault Ringo in any of these circumstances:

1. Masako cleverly disguised herself as a nurse (and Ringo never saw Masako before). If a nurse tells you to leave the room, wouldn't you listen?
2. She has no way to know that the famous actress Yuri Tokikago, whom she knows has feelings for Tabuki, is a lesbian psycho infatuated with her late sister.
3. She spoke many times with Tabuki and he always told her that the past is the past and that the sins of the parents shouldn't be visited upon the children. It was a completely inimaginable turnabout from him.
4. Maybe Ringo is aware that Kanba has become a terrorist but she also knows that he really loves Himari above everything else. How could she suspect that Kanba intends to destroy the diary which can save his sister?
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Old 2011-12-17, 16:30   Link #88
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You're right but I reckon Ringo should've had alarm bells ringing when all she could hear was Kanba's voice. Maybe she already suspected Kanba would do something and went along anyway to try and convince him.

If I were in her shoes though, I would've just legged it there and then.
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Old 2011-12-17, 19:20   Link #89
mysh
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Well, I don't think they were dating to begin with.

That scene did feel like a "farewell" though, but from our perspective, not theirs. As in foreshadowing that, unbeknown to them, they wouldn't see each other ever again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Well that still doesn't make any sense because they were never officially dating in the first place and have always just been friends.
Well, I think very much depends on what you understand by "dating". If you mean flowers, kisses and rough sex scenes, then they weren't dating. But there was something, some chemistry between them that made so many people ship Shouma & Ringo, wasn't there? Making similar scarves, "I'm your stalker", Ringo helping and supporting Shouma, Himari being jealous - I have seen all these things as signs of love, the very beginning of a relationship. Maybe, that was love on Ringo's side only... But after their scene in the park I got a feeling that she decided to step aside, not to pursue Shouma any longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
If this is the end of Ringo's role in the story than I will also find it unjust but I don't think we should judge until we know that for certain.
Of course, let's wait and see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
But the point is Shouma is finally doing something right & taking action. I admit it took the story way too long to get this point but I guess I don't understand why be upset with Shouma now of all times when he finally moving in the right direction?
Well, because I personally think that this direction would have been right in all the previous episodes, but now it's taking him away from someone who needs his help and support. I can see the dilemma there between Ringo on the one hand and Kanba+Himari+innocent people on the other hand, but still.
Also, mind that I greatly love Ringo's character and can be a bit partial.

Last edited by mysh; 2011-12-17 at 19:43.
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Old 2011-12-17, 19:39   Link #90
Kazu-kun
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Well, I think that very much depends on what you understand by "dating". If you mean flowers, kisses and rough sex scenes, then they weren't dating. But there was something, some chemistry between them that made so many people ship Shouma & Ringo, wasn't there? Making similar scarves, "I'm your stalker", Ringo helping and supporting Shouma, Himari being jealous - I have seen all these things as signs of love, the very beginning of a relationship. Maybe, that was love on Ringo's side only... But after their scene in the park I got a feeling that she decided to step aside, not to pursue Shouma any longer.
I see what you mean, but I disagree that she "stepped aside". At least that wasn't what I saw in that scene. I may be reading too much into it, but the way Ringo rested her head against Shouma's shoulder reminds me a lot to how penguins behaves with their partners. That stood out to me because it's common knowledge penguins choose their partners for life. That's why for me here Ringo was telling Shouma, without words, that she chose him and would stay besides him forever, not matter what. It was a really powerful scene.

Then again, maybe I really am reading too much into it .
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-12-17 at 20:31.
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Old 2011-12-17, 19:46   Link #91
mysh
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I see what you mean, but I disagree that she "stepped aside". At least that wasn't what I saw in that scene. I may be reading too much into it, but the way Ringo rested her head against Shouma's shoulder reminds me a lot to how penguins behaves with their partners. That stood out to me because it's common knowledge penguins choose their partners for life. That's why for me Ringo here was telling Shouma, without words, that she would be besides him forever, not matter what. It was a really powerful scene.

Then again, maybe I'm just reading too much into it .
I like your interpretation very much, but my feelings from the scene were absolutely different, so let's just wait and see. All I can say for now is that I would be really happy to be mistaken.
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Old 2011-12-17, 19:50   Link #92
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Oh my, whoever predicted that Momoka was the Crystal Queen was actually right. It seems that early predictions actually do come true

Oh lol! That Seizon Senryaku commercial just cracked me up...

But wow, this episode is truly... I have no words to describe it.
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Old 2011-12-17, 19:54   Link #93
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Well, because I personally think that this direction would have been right in all the previous episodes, but now it's taking him away from someone who needs his help and support. I can see the dilemma there between Ringo on the one hand and Kanba+Himari+innocent people on the other hand, but still.
Also, mind that I greatly love Ringo's character and can be a bit partial.
Well I think that is more the fault of the story then Shouma. Shouma doesn't even know Ringo was hurt right? So it's not really like he is choosing Kanba+Himari+innocent people over her. It's more that he doesn't even know she needs his help. I just don't see how I can fault his character for that.

And don't get me wrong I love Ringo too and pray she will be alright. I hope this won't be the end of her story or the end of Ringo/Shouma.

I am not necessarily saying that will ruin the anime for me but I would definitely be highly disappointed.
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Old 2011-12-17, 20:04   Link #94
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Well I think that is more the fault of the story then Shouma. Shouma doesn't even know Ringo was hurt right? So it's not really like he is choosing Kanba+Himari+innocent people over her. It's more that he doesn't even know she needs his help. I just don't see how I can fault his character for that.
Oh, I do understand that. All I wanted to say was that the development of the story gave me a lot of pain. Speaking of the chosen and the unchosen - like Ringo's suddenly become an unchosen, an unwanted one. And there's also her elder sister - magical girl Momoka - whose role in all that and knowledge is not yet clear.
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Old 2011-12-17, 20:15   Link #95
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In all honesty I cannot fault Ringo in any of these circumstances:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Ringo is downright foolish.

But I think that a big part of her character is the high level of unconditional love and support she has for her friends and loved ones. That level is so high that it translates into an inability to view her friends/loved ones in an even mildly negative or suspicious light.

I honestly found Ringo's brief conversation with "detached-voice" Kanba a bit funny in this episode, because she was talking to him as though he was a normal guy and a normal friend to her. Maybe this was her way of trying to ease him back into normalcy and away from the terrible legacy of his parents, and if so, I'm not giving her enough credit there. However, my impression is that she just can't internalize that one of her friends, one of the Takakuras, is a very dangerous and deeply troubled man.

In a way, though, this is kind of charming, and it does leave me feeling protective of Ringo (it gives her a pure sort of moe, you could even say). It's kind of the exact opposite extreme of someone who's jaded and cynical beyond belief. Ringo is a very optimistic person in general, and she believes in her friends to the point it can backfire on her, but it is still nice to see someone who is that nice and trusting towards her friends and loved ones.


Presuming that Shouma, Kanba, and Ringo all survive the final episode (with or without Himari surviving as well) it'll be interesting to see how Ringo acts if/when she sees Kanba again. The guy did hurt her/betray her pretty badly here.
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Old 2011-12-17, 20:19   Link #96
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Speaking of the chosen and the unchosen - like Ringo's suddenly become an unchosen, an unwanted one.
Ringo would only "become" unchosen if she believes she is. But she's stronger than that. The current Ringo is strong enough to decide her worth as a person on her own.

Ringo's a tough cookie, so don't think this is enough to take her down.
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Old 2011-12-17, 22:53   Link #97
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They seem to make a point of specifying that the diary contains the spell, but it doesn't seem to be required for casting it. I wonder if that's important, or further misdirection. Also curious why, if the spell is truly lost forever, they bother to have Sanetoshi explain to Ringo that the spell would cost her life, if she were to cast it. Again, it's completely possible that this is just more misdirection, but that card seems to still be in play.

Sanetoshi tells Ringo that there's only so much you can accomplish with the power of love. This seems to fly in the face of the conversation of the precocious kids about the apple symbolism in Galactic Railroad way back in episode 1. This is another reason I'm not fully convinced that Ringo's role is over.

Most of the conversations this episode seem packed with double meaning, especially one where any of the siblings are speaking with each other.

I legitimately did not expect Sanetoshi to have originated as an ordinary human. The Sanetoshi we see now, of course, is the manifestation of the curse he placed on Momoka, but it seems 16 years ago he was really just a cult/terrorist leader.
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Old 2011-12-18, 01:16   Link #98
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Sanetoshi tells Ringo that there's only so much you can accomplish with the power of love.
Sanetoshi seems to believe in the power of love himself, despite what he said to Ringo. After all, he tells Kanba "Let's see how many you can kill with the power of love."
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Old 2011-12-18, 06:06   Link #99
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Originally Posted by ScudFace View Post
To understand why sanetoshi hates the world so much you need to understand the mentality of the people who joined Aum Shinrikyo. Basically everything he saids in this episode is a reflection of the hatred and worldview of the members of that cult. Even the fact that he was a doctor at Himari's hospital is a reference to the profile of the cult member that carried out the subway attack.
Can you give more infos or give a link please

i'm interested , very.

anyway great episode
i can't wait to see the penguindrum...

someone to explain why we see penguins face all over the place in the anime ?
why there are invisible penguins by the way
why the penguin of Kanba's sister is black , why the oether are blue with a number ?

Momoka have power , but she is a godess or something ?

edit
Is that possible a season 2 ?

Last edited by Lenneth4; 2011-12-18 at 06:39.
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Old 2011-12-18, 12:14   Link #100
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Diary destroyed, Ringo writhing in the flames , Sanetoshi convinced his only threat was averted and the audience convinced that the diary was never the penguindrum.

What if it was a fake diary? ...if Ringo burned herself only to deceive Sanetoshi?
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