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Old 2011-12-18, 16:44   Link #1201
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
Ange seemed ready to accept any truth when she opened the diary, yet after reading it, she refused to accept it. That leads me to believe that it might really be the Rudolf/Kyrie/Battler culprit scenario.
Yea, but it could just as easily be "Everyone is dead, Ange." Since that seems to be her main concern, not whether she can "still love Onii-chan" or anything.

Quote:
Did anyone say that?

Bern said it wouldn't have a happy ending. She didn't say it would have a bad ending, or any ending at all.
He's referencing how a lot of Umineko fans thought the ending was terrible for a number of reasons, either because we don't know the culprit, or because they felt it taught the wrong moral lesson, or whatever else~.
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Old 2011-12-18, 20:57   Link #1202
Misuzu
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I stayed up late to finish it last night, and for the most part, I loved it. I'd spoiled myself enough to know we weren't getting any answers, and I had more than enough time to come to terms with that and appreciate the story for what it was. Glorious Lambdadelta, a surprisingly awesome Erica, an entertaining tale all around.

The only thing that really irritates me is that I don't feel like Kanon was explained at all. Stupid though it may be, I've accepted that Shkanon is the truth. I'll even accept that everyone is clueness enough not to realize they're the same person. But we never really got a reason for Kanon apart from the "little brother" thing. There are the theories about mutilated genitals and gender identity issues, but I don't feel like we really got much of that in the game, and it mostly feels like he existed for the sake of tricking the reader. Which makes the Kanon/Jessica stuff feel pointless.

There's actually a line in one of the games- Alliance, maybe? About Beatrice discovering the "perfect closed room trick". And I can see how Yasu might've posed as a boy for Jessica's school festival, thought "hey, this would be awesome to use in a murder mystery story", and made it a part of hers. I just don't get Kanon/Jessica or the love duels or anything like that. I felt like Shannontrice was more than sufficiently explained, which makes it weirder. Troll Ryūkishi, I suppose. This might be better suited for the interpretations thread.
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Old 2011-12-19, 04:05   Link #1203
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So, the 5th Character Poll was run in February, 2011, two months after the release of Umineko EP8. It's long since closed now but the people just finishing up the English version may recall what Lambdadelta said near the end of the game.

Here were the results:
http://when-they-cry.net/Cgi/vote/umi8/vote_end.html

:3
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Old 2011-12-19, 04:55   Link #1204
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Haha, that's cute, Lambda finally got her big break :P
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Old 2011-12-19, 05:57   Link #1205
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Why is Natsuhi still so high?
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Old 2011-12-19, 06:36   Link #1206
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Because EP5 made her REALLY goddamn popular.
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Old 2011-12-19, 06:52   Link #1207
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It's amazing that she can ride that wave of popularity for this long.
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Old 2011-12-19, 07:04   Link #1208
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Natsuhi is the model wife that all the "forever alone" crowd would just love to have, its really not surprising at all
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Old 2011-12-19, 07:13   Link #1209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunder Book View Post
It's amazing that she can ride that wave of popularity for this long.
Well to be fair it was only like a year. This poll is OLD.
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Old 2011-12-19, 08:20   Link #1210
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In "trick ending" Was Ange right? or she was being paranoid?
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Old 2011-12-19, 08:40   Link #1211
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I'd say half-right half-paranoid. A witch of truth seems to be someone who after gathering evidences and using them for her reasoning elevates the most probable deduction to "red truth" even if there are still reasonable doubts.

This is at least what you can get from EP5 and from the battle Erika had with Dlanor in EP6.

So Ange's logic was sound, but no matter how probable it was for her to be right, there was still a chance Amakusa wouldn't kill her. None of his reactions really prove anything. Even if he didn't plan to kill her, he was still being targeted by an unstable girl with a gun who was seeing him as her potential killer. He probably didn't think he could make her change her mind with words alone.


Captain Kawabata's case is however was a lot less likely to be true, even Ange realized that it was a catbox, but she decided to kill him nonetheless in order to kill "the part of him that betrayed her", uncaring of the fact that by doing so she also killed "the part of him that was innocent".


As for what was the truth of that whole case... is there even a truth, I wonder? Is that event even canon in some world or just a what if scenario?
Episode4 suggests that everything would have gone as Ange predicted, but the part where Amakusa kills her, or lets her be killed is still a catbox. The ending scroll says that she died, but how? Did she die in Rokkenjima in front of her aunt, or did she die by falling from a skyscraper?

As for Kawabata. I think the odds are that he's innocent. We don't really have any real proof nor the slightest evidence to think he was bribed. The delay is a moot point. The sumadera should have been a lot faster than Ange and her bodyguard seeing as how they directly went to Rokkenjima with an airplane.
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Old 2011-12-19, 09:12   Link #1212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
The ending scroll says that she died, but how? Did she die in Rokkenjima in front of her aunt, or did she die by falling from a skyscraper?
Didn't she pull a Battler and "die", turning into Kotobuki Yukari?
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Old 2011-12-19, 09:49   Link #1213
Jan-Poo
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Maybe... I'm not sure if changing a name and lifestyle qualifies has having your previous personality dead. Tohya's case and Yasu's case have more points to them than simply that.
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Old 2011-12-19, 16:21   Link #1214
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Maybe... I'm not sure if changing a name and lifestyle qualifies has having your previous personality dead. Tohya's case and Yasu's case have more points to them than simply that.
She did make a pretty big deal of abandoning her name. At the same time, I see that she kept some parts of Ange.
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Old 2011-12-19, 16:42   Link #1215
CrimsonMoonMist
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Finally finished it, and against all my expectations, I ended up having no regrets at all
(save for wanting to read the Our Confession book).
Ryukishi really did a great job rounding of Umineko in a way that felt completely natural for the series.

I just finished the Tea-parties.
In regards to interpretations of the two.
I take the scene with Battler and Beato escaping in a quite literal way,
except I see it as Yasu using the ingot as extra weight so that Battler wouldn't manage to save her,
of course he still tried his best and ended up falling unconscious and drifting to shore.
The very last scene in the Fukuin house, I interpret as Battler finally regaining his self.
I think it's a sound way to look at things?
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Old 2011-12-19, 16:51   Link #1216
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Originally Posted by CrimsonMoonMist View Post
Finally finished it, and against all my expectations, I ended up having no regrets at all
(save for wanting to read the Our Confession book).
Ryukishi really did a great job rounding of Umineko in a way that felt completely natural for the series.

I just finished the Tea-parties.
In regards to interpretations of the two.
I take the scene with Battler and Beato escaping in a quite literal way,
except I see it as Yasu using the ingot as extra weight so that Battler wouldn't manage to save her,
of course he still tried his best and ended up falling unconscious and drifting to shore.
The very last scene in the Fukuin house, I interpret as Battler finally regaining his self.
I think it's a sound way to look at things?
I actually did not like episode 8. It did not give me the one thing I wanted, you don't have to guess what that is. Anyway, that is an interesting literal interpretation. Battler is lost with Beatrice. I would have to say at the very least Yasu told Battler how to get there, if not guided him to the boat shimself. I was convinced that it was completely figurative, but your 'ingot used as weight' idea has swayed me.
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Old 2011-12-19, 17:07   Link #1217
RedKey
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Totally unrelated to the previous posts, but I still don't fully buy Dlanor's sudden and complete change of heart towards Erika in the Battle for the Golden Land after caring for and supporting her as a close friend so much at the end of EP6. And in the EP8 Tea Party they even happily exchange letters again, so...
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Old 2011-12-19, 17:10   Link #1218
orangejuicetang
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Totally unrelated to the previous posts, but I still don't fully buy Dlanor's sudden and complete change of heart towards Erika in the Battle for the Golden Land after caring for and supporting her as a close friend so much at the end of EP6. And in the EP8 Tea Party they even happily exchange letters again, so...
Actually, that was one of the things that somewhat confused me, while reading the Tea Party.

'So, are they still friends, or what?'
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Old 2011-12-19, 17:20   Link #1219
AuraTwilight
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Quote:
Totally unrelated to the previous posts, but I still don't fully buy Dlanor's sudden and complete change of heart towards Erika in the Battle for the Golden Land after caring for and supporting her as a close friend so much at the end of EP6. And in the EP8 Tea Party they even happily exchange letters again, so...
They're still friends, but Dlanor never did approve of what Erika was doing, and she's finally fed up with it. "DAMMIT STOP BEING EVIL."
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Old 2011-12-19, 18:08   Link #1220
CrimsonMoonMist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeckledorf View Post
I actually did not like episode 8. It did not give me the one thing I wanted, you don't have to guess what that is. Anyway, that is an interesting literal interpretation. Battler is lost with Beatrice. I would have to say at the very least Yasu told Battler how to get there, if not guided him to the boat shimself. I was convinced that it was completely figurative, but your 'ingot used as weight' idea has swayed me.
The moment I settled on that viewpoint was when Beato jumped and the ingot was gone as well. When it first happened, I thought she probably wasn't there to begin with, but when she was revealed to have jumped, it seemed natural since she wasn't even dead at the time,
so the ingot just disappearing didn't make sense from the magic perspective we where shown either.

To further that thinking, if we where to take Battler and Beato's 'I've sinned/you haven't killed in our world (or however that went)' lines literally. I'd say that would point to something like the EP7 sibling fight happening with Yasu not actually killing anybody, but expressing guilt in regards to her plans of doing so.

Trying to take Umineko too literally is a dangerous thing though...
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