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View Poll Results: Guilty Crown - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 11 13.92%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 19 24.05%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 16 20.25%
7 out of 10 : Good 12 15.19%
6 out of 10 : Average 10 12.66%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 3.80%
4 out of 10 : Poor 3 3.80%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 2.53%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 3.80%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-12-18, 16:21   Link #161
miketyson
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Soji: you might be right. To make a last joke: the real mystery for next week is: "how did Inori know to wear the new costume with wing-cutouts in back?"

But on a more serious note: I think you're probably in the right ballpark vis-a-vis Shu's memories. The fact that he seems to have no clue about what happened -- and no one seems to want to clue him in either -- is the big mystery, and it seems like he might have multiple levels of repressed memories.

One "out-there" possibility that just occurred to me: it seems like Inori is a clone or something similar.

What if: Shu, "mystery girl", and Gai all got the disease on lost christmas and "died". Inori is a lab-grown clone of the girl. Shu is a lab-grown clone of the original Shu, separately brought up by Haruka? Gai *is* the original Gai, but Daryl and/or the new blond mystery kid is/are a clone or clones of Gai?

Given how much this show likes to kick Shu around it wouldn't surprise me that he's actually a fake / clone / etc. in some kind of Truman Show situation, not simply a guy suffering from PTSD.
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Old 2011-12-18, 19:48   Link #162
djmaca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
What if: Shu, "mystery girl", and Gai all got the disease on lost christmas and "died". Inori is a lab-grown clone of the girl. Shu is a lab-grown clone of the original Shu, separately brought up by Haruka? Gai *is* the original Gai, but Daryl and/or the new blond mystery kid is/are a clone or clones of Gai?

Given how much this show likes to kick Shu around it wouldn't surprise me that he's actually a fake / clone / etc. in some kind of Truman Show situation, not simply a guy suffering from PTSD.
That or he's actually the real Shu. The "mystery girl" might had saved him, sacrificing herself while Gai and Shu desperately watch the horrible scene on Lost Christmas. Gai escapes while he is infected, while Shu get traumatized severely he's exhibiting signs of mental breakdown. To save him, they had to wipe his memory of that fateful day.

This would go well with Gai's lampshade: "So you choose him in the end as well..."
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Old 2011-12-18, 20:41   Link #163
king12354
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Just watched it and wow, Shu was pathetic. Not even the least understandable. He failed and someone's brother died then he turned all crazy and weak. He's acting like he hasn't killed/saved a bunch of people as a result of his actions before. I was just shaking my head throughout 3/4 of the episode.

Hate it when the direction of the show goes toward this path before suddenly returning to be the hero.
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Old 2011-12-18, 22:06   Link #164
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he hasn't killed someone he's promised to protect before.
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Old 2011-12-18, 22:18   Link #165
djmaca
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Originally Posted by king12354 View Post
Just watched it and wow, Shu was pathetic. Not even the least understandable. He failed and someone's brother died then he turned all crazy and weak. He's acting like he hasn't killed/saved a bunch of people as a result of his actions before. I was just shaking my head throughout 3/4 of the episode.

Hate it when the direction of the show goes toward this path before suddenly returning to be the hero.
He killed those people, because THEY were going to kill him: legit self-defense. He angst now because he killed a kid he promised to protect... and he did it while face-to-face with the person. Rather than defense, it feels much more like euthanasia or a coup de grace for the kid. And it seems that the show hints that he's already a total mental wreck even before the series started.
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Old 2011-12-19, 16:26   Link #166
Random32
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Originally Posted by kk2extreme View Post
Shu = Shinji Ikari 2.0
Shu doesn't deserve to be Ikari 2.0. I really liked Ikari as a character, he's definitely in my top10 male leads list. Shu, the writers are trying too hard. I was generally okay or happy with how he was handled until this episode. I know he's a complete mental wreck, but it feels artificial in this episode. Normally I have to think too hard before Guilty Crown breaks down for me, but Shu in this episode felt wrong.

I think how Undertakers handled Shu's mental breakdown was really unrealistic (or Undertakers is the dumbest organization ever). It seemed like they expected him to be fully functional. They sent him on a mission, and Inori wasn't made aware in any significant detail of Shu's mental condition as evidence by her response to the "monster" comment. Okay, they're a terrorist organization, but I think its common sense to think that Shu has some issues after what he did last episode.

On the topic of PTSD. Looking at Wikipedia. I think that the event in ep9 didn't cause PTSD, it just sort of "woke up" his existing PTSD: Lost Christmas.
looking at DSM-IV:
Exposure to a traumatic event: Lost Christmas
Persistent re-experiencing: Yes, he has had flashbacks throughout the entire series...
Persistent avoidance and emotional numbing: He has memory issues about the time around Lost Christmas. I'm not sure we have good examples of the other things listed under this
D: Persistent symptoms of increased arousal not present before: I would say he has lots of problems with anger as of the last episode at least.
Duration of symptoms for more than 1 month: Definitely.
Significant Impairment: <sarcasm>He looks to be fully functional at least in ep10!</sarcasm>

btw, not really on topic someone said really early on in this thread about AB! being cut short it 13 ep and I don't think anybody responded. It was always supposed to be 13ep since Maeda had writers block and requested 1cour. Then he wrote 2cour worth of stuff and pacing hell happened.
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Old 2011-12-19, 22:51   Link #167
zalem
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Omg, just as I suspected from the last episode....any and all progress that Shu has made as a character has utterly gone out the window. In fact, now he is worse than ever. Ughhh....

I really hope nothing happens to Gai, because he is one of the few reasons I tolerate putting up with Shu. I mean story-wise I found the episode interesting, but I really wanted to deck Shu in the face.
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Old 2011-12-20, 02:12   Link #168
dark998
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^Don't worry too much about it, everything Shu lost will be gained back soon enough. And with a nice bonus, too.
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Old 2011-12-20, 02:23   Link #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post

Given how much this show likes to kick Shu around it wouldn't surprise me that he's actually a fake / clone / etc. in some kind of Truman Show situation, not simply a guy suffering from PTSD.
He would go so well with Nishijyo Takumi then....
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Old 2011-12-20, 03:29   Link #170
Soji
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Because it seems that there are still problems in understanding why Shu had this behavior in this episode.I quote a post from a user from Myanimelist,because it explains very well what I already mentioned in my other post about Shu two PTSD or at least that is something more than just a PTSD from killing jun. (More or less).
Spoiler for quote from Articman:
And I agree totally with him / her here.
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Old 2011-12-20, 03:57   Link #171
djmaca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Because it seems that there are still problems in understanding why Shu had this behavior in this episode.I quote a post from a user from Myanimelist,because it explains very well what I already mentioned in my other post about Shu two PTSD or at least that is something more than just a PTSD from killing jun. (More or less).
Spoiler for quote from Articman:
And I agree totally with him / her here.
It's been a while since I saw the repressed memories theory for why Shu freaks out like that. I agree with this theory.

It does fits the sequence of events if we consider Shu as a survivor of Lost Christmas, where his "onee-chan" is speculated to have died. He either had received treatment or therapy to forget the trauma, which fits to what people normally take to get rid of the trauma received by people during a disaster or war.

Problem is that, one way or another, the fix starts to unravel years later and they start remembering again. And this is what we are supposed to be seeing on Shu. I kinda remember how Haruka looked when she learned that Shu obtained the Void Genome. She might have been protecting Shu from getting involved again and recalling his past.

So in short: instead of PTSD from killing Jun, its PTSD from Lost Christmas.
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Old 2011-12-20, 06:37   Link #172
Soji
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
It's been a while since I saw the repressed memories theory for why Shu freaks out like that. I agree with this theory.

It does fits the sequence of events if we consider Shu as a survivor of Lost Christmas, where his "onee-chan" is speculated to have died. He either had received treatment or therapy to forget the trauma, which fits to what people normally take to get rid of the trauma received by people during a disaster or war.

Problem is that, one way or another, the fix starts to unravel years later and they start remembering again. And this is what we are supposed to be seeing on Shu. I kinda remember how Haruka looked when she learned that Shu obtained the Void Genome. She might have been protecting Shu from getting involved again and recalling his past.

So in short: instead of PTSD from killing Jun, its PTSD from Lost Christmas.
Agree...But the problem is, even if she wanted to protect him from recalling his past she just chain him down (or rather locked him in a cage to protect him )sealing these memories away.But now that these memories are coming back and Shu is finally waking up he have to overcome this trauma in order to grow as person. Especially if that girl was so important to him and if Inori is really important to him as he says, he must be brave and overcome the fear that those memories bring to him.( after all those memories are part of him and will make him himself).
Edit:to think of it, with what we know,we finaly can understand Gai behavior from the beginning of the anime until now against Shu.

Last edited by Soji; 2011-12-20 at 14:44.
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Old 2011-12-20, 15:20   Link #173
Endless Soul
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I'm going to have to watch episode 10 again. I feel like I've missed something regarding why there's a new outbreak of the virus. Serves me right for watching late at night right before going to bed.

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Old 2011-12-20, 17:26   Link #174
Kusa-San
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Because it seems that there are still problems in understanding why Shu had this behavior in this episode.I quote a post from a user from Myanimelist,because it explains very well what I already mentioned in my other post about Shu two PTSD or at least that is something more than just a PTSD from killing jun. (More or less).
Spoiler for quote from Articman:
And I agree totally with him / her here.
Great theory which make sense ! If only Shu's hater can read this...
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Old 2011-12-20, 17:31   Link #175
mangatron
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So, my episode 10 joke aside, I'm rather surprised we get a Lost Christmas part 2 this early in the series, if this series really is over 20 eps, I really thought such a catastrophic event to be series finale stuff. But I guess with this happening already, the finale better be an even grander event

but, so long as Haruka, Hare, Kanon and all the other girls survive this Lost Christmas Part 2, I'll be happy. The rest of the males can perish, that way I can initiate the Lost mangatron apocalypse where the girls will have no choice but to hook up with me for the sake of the survival of mankind! *runs*

Ahem anyways, I kinda hope Gai and Shu don't die just yet, how else am I supposed to continue the jokes...
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Old 2011-12-20, 18:51   Link #176
djmaca
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Great theory which make sense ! If only Shu's hater can read this...
They will still hate it anyway: They're complaining about how tedious and bad he is written, not about his story. Goddamn nitpickers.
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Old 2011-12-21, 01:51   Link #177
dark998
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Call me slowpoke but I just noticed something. In the scene where Shu is eating the riceballs and says they are salty I thought it was because his tears dropped on them. Then I realized Inori actually prepared those for him and obviously her cooking skills are not very good.

Goddammit, Shu...
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Old 2011-12-21, 01:57   Link #178
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Or was he crying because of the saltiness
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Old 2011-12-21, 04:54   Link #179
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Or was he crying because of the saltiness
They are probably filled with her tears. Shu, baka!
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Old 2011-12-21, 07:29   Link #180
Soji
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Guys do not misunderstand what I'm saying because I'm angry about what Shu told to Inori (although I understand why it happened) ... but if you think about it, this is like a pay back. I mean in episode 5 (if I remember correctly) Inori told Shu that it was all a lie and that Gai ordered her to do so plus the scene where she enters in Gai's room and Shu see that.Now Shu because of the visions and his trauma has given her a taste of how he it felt that time.But I'm sure they will reconciled quickly like last time . After all, what better way for Shu to apologize with her that come back to save her and everyone else?
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