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View Poll Results: Penguin Drum - Episode 24 (END) Rating
Perfect 10 36 40.91%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 25 28.41%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 14.77%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 4.55%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 3.41%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 3.41%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 1.14%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 3.41%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-12-23, 22:37   Link #81
Setsuryuu
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To me this was a happy ending. Just a different form of happiness, right? I wonder if Himari was still childhood friend's with Double H after the fate transfered... She kinda left this a bit cloudy when she said she just "collected" everything from them. And did Kanba and Shouma became actual twin brothers this time? I don't remember Kanba saying he loved you Masako (evil Kanba xD) I guess that was really just a dream! xD

And well, look Sanetoshi lurking in the shadows. Indeed the perfect ending, no second season should spout... But he still wants to keep his curse on somehow... Oh my novel, exorcise this ghost. xP

I just watched it so I'm a bit stunned still... But hey it was quite a ride in there... Good to see there's still anime in this level nowdays.
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Old 2011-12-23, 22:56   Link #82
Kirarakim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Yeah, the flashback kinda shows the "penguindrum" was originally Kanba's. His purpose, his decision to live for Himari. Kanba gave half of that purpose to Shouma and now Shouma gives back to him.

Remember back in episode 17 the PotC did tell Kanba "the penguindrum is your..."

And it was true, the penguindrum was kanba's all along. It just happened that half of it was with Shouma.
Don't forget it was Shouma who shared the apple with Himari 1st and then Himari with Kanba & Kanba with Shouma.

They weren't real siblings but they did have a deep connection.

Also while I do see the similarity with Madoka. I actually prefer this ending. Maybe it's the execution, maybe because it comes back to Night on the Galactic Railroad or maybe because everyone still has someone in the end (yes except Sanetoshi)
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Old 2011-12-23, 23:03   Link #83
Qpax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Maybe I'm a little disappointed that Double H didn't have a larger presence in Himari's life at the end (in fact it appears in this reality she's just a fan.)
But the only thing that saved Himari's life and others at the end of series was their song, thanks to their song Ringo was able to cast spell which was "The Fruit of Fate". Other than that I'm really happy for Yuri and Tabuki. They deserved that happy finale from the beggining. Shouma finally confesed her love towards Ringo and both girls are now friends, living happily after thanks to their beloved ones. But there is still this sad feeling deep inside me towards Kanba. Even though his actions were all for the sake of saving Himari and did evil in the process but he also deserved happy finale but anyways he did since he saved Himari with all costs anyways. I'm also happy for Masako siblings at the same time. Masako still remembers Kanba even if she thinks it's in her dream. I'm going to miss Esmeralda's "Kyuhuh" voice. Horie Yui did really good job by voicing this cute penguin and yeah she was my favorite one amongst other penguins. And lastly I shed manly tears when Himari found note from her brothers.

PS: I interpreted this episode as like what they needed from the beggining is sharing love. Love is also at the same time fate. If you want to change fate you need to share. Sharing also means sacrificing something precious to you. So what I'm trying to say is (not metaphorically) apple that Kanba shared with Shouma is Penguindrum which also indicates bro love. When they shared fruit of fate they also found purpose in life. In order to save their hope and purpose, at the end they needed to sacrifice their soul. So in this sense Shouma sacrificed himself in order to save Ringo who was about the die as well as Himari was saved by Kanba by sarificing himself, enabling them both to save their precious ones in life. Ahh the more I speak then the more it gets complicated anyways... Later I need to rewatch this series in order to get better and full understading or better wait for Bluray series to see more naked Himari and Ringo :3

Anyways it was pretty good series at least it was top-notch one amongst other series that released this year so I'm going to add this series to the top of my favorite series.
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Old 2011-12-23, 23:35   Link #84
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Don't forget it was Shouma who shared the apple with Himari 1st and then Himari with Kanba & Kanba with Shouma.
But it's no the same.

I mean, even after getting to know both Himari and Kanba, Shouma's life was still aimless. He somehow gave purpose to Himari's life, and she somehow did the same for Kanba...

But Shouma had nothing even then. This is made explicit when he's inside the box and think this:

"I'll send a message to someone precious to me too. I wonder who... and what will my message be"

So even then he still didn't know whom he wanted to protect and what to live for. But Kanba was different!!!

That's why there's apple in Kanba's "box" but there's none in Shouma's. Kanba wants to protect someone, to live for the sake of someone. That someone is Himari. Shouma, on the other hand, doesn't know what to live for. He doesn't have a purpose, doesn't have an "apple".

When Kanba share his "apple" with Shouma, he's sharing his purpose with him. The purpose of "living for Himari's sake". He's sharing it with Shouma.

Kanba had to share this with Shouma because someone with no purpose can not "live". Or rather, their life would never amount to anything.

Anyway. in episode 24, all Shouma does, is to give back Kanba's porpuse to him (well, "half" of it). It was never Shouma's after all. The porpuse of "living for Himari's sake". It was Kanba's to begin with, since it was his personal decision to live that way.

Right after he gives Kanba what's rightfully his, he rushes to save Ringo, because that's his new (and real) purpose. This time is not a purpose that someone else is sharing with him (like the the purpose of "living for Himari's sake", which was Kanba's, originally), but truly his own. Ringo, in a way, is Shouma's true apple.

Well, that's just my interpretation...
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2011-12-24 at 04:08.
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Old 2011-12-23, 23:48   Link #85
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
But it's no the same.

I mean, even after getting to know both Himari and Kanba, Shouma's life was still aimless. He somehow gave purpose to Himari's life, and she somehow did the same for Kanba...

But Shouma has nothing even then. This is made explicit when he's inside the box and think this:

"I'll send a message to someone precious to me too. I wonder who... and what will my message be"

So even then he still didn't know whom he wanted to protect and what to live for. But Kanba was different!!!

That's why there's apple in Kanba's "box" but there's none in Shouma's. Kanba wants to protect someone, to live for the sake of someone. That someone is Himari. Shouma, on the other hand, doesn't know what to live for. He doesn't have a purpose, doesn't have an "apple".

When Kanba share his "apple" with Shouma, he's sharing his purpose with him. The purpose of "living for Himari's sake". He's sharing it with Shouma.

Kanba had to share this with Shouma because someone with no purpose can not "live". Or rather, their life would never amount to anything.

Anyway. in episode 24, all Shouma does, is to give back Kanba's porpuse to him (well, "half" of it). It was never Shouma's after all. The porpuse of "living for Himari's sake". It was Kanba's to begin with, since it was his personal decision to live that way.

Right after he gives Kanba what's rightfully his, he rushes to save Ringo, because that's his new purpose. This time is not a purpose that someone else is sharing with him (like the the purpose of "living for Himari's sake", which Kanba shared with him), but truly his own. Ringo, in a way, is Shouma's true apple.

Well, that's just my interpretation...

Kazu I don't disagree with you I think Ringo was Shouma's true apple/purpose.

But you can't discount the fact that Shouma was the first one to give the apple to Himari (who was also lost). It was because she had this apple & found happiness that she was able to pass it onto Kanba in the first place.

Kanba then took his apple and gave half of it to Shouma thus sharing his purpose with him. Although it was only half an apple that half did save Shouma. He invested himself in his "family" until he found his purpose but he never felt whole or full. Hence why Penguin 2 was always eating because he was looking for his full apple (which was Ringo).
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Old 2011-12-24, 00:36   Link #86
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ut you can't discount the fact that Shouma was the first one to give the apple to Himari (who was also lost). It was because she had this apple & found happiness that she was able to pass it onto Kanba in the first place.
I'm not discounting anything. It's just I wasn't clear enough I suppose. I mean, if you think of the apple simply as "love" then you could say Shouma gives an apple to Himari, Himari gives it to Kanba, Kanba gives half of it back to Shouma, etc.

But that's no it (IMO). The point here is what someone choose to do with the love that was given to them, and that choice is a personal decision.

Kanba chose to live for Himari's sake. It was his decision and his alone. Of course, he had that choice because love was given to him (by Himari), but what to do with that love was still his personal decision.

Shouma was loved, by both Kanba and Himari. Yet, he didn't know what to do with that love that was given to him. He didn't have an "apple" because the "apple" is not just love but purpose.

That's why Kanba had to share his purpose with him. In other words, what I mean is that despite loving Himari very much, living for her sake wasn't something Shouma decided to do on his own. He was just following his "brother", "sharing" on what Kanba decided to do.

So at the end he gives it back to Kanba so that Kanba could sacrifice all of his life and self for Himari's sake. It was Kanba's right to so because it was what he decided to do on his own. That was a decision that Shouma never made.

I think that it's because the "apple", the "penguindrum", is a choice, the choice on what to do with the love that was given to you, that it breaks "fate". If you're loved, you may decide to give love to someone else too, and by doing so you may change that person's "fate". Or you may decide not to give it back at all, in which case, even though you have love, you still won't change anyone's fate and won't ever amount to anything.

At least that's the way I understood it. I know there must be many other ways to see all this though.
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Old 2011-12-24, 00:58   Link #87
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
At least that's the way I understood it. I know there must be many other ways to see all this though.
I don't disagree with what you are saying but what I am trying to say is there was a bond between Shouma/Himari/Kanba that started with Shouma giving an apple to Himari. Himari had no will to live until Shouma chose her and gave her an apple. It was this Himari that put the bandaid on Kanba. If not for Shouma's act then Himari would never have showed kindness to Kanba inspiring him to live for her.

So I am saying everything between the siblings felt full circle to me.

And while yes half of Kanba's apple was not enough for Shouma it did keep him living even if not in a full sense. Shouma lived for his family while he was looking for his apple.
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Old 2011-12-24, 01:09   Link #88
Kazu-kun
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I don't disagree with what you are saying but what I am trying to say is there was a bond between Shouma/Himari/Kanba that started with Shouma giving an apple to Himari.
Well, you could say that Shouma started everything because he decided to rescue Himari. But if you think about it, he could only do this because he was already loved (ie: by his parents). So it's not only a connection between these three, and Shouma is certainly not the beginning point.

Ultimately, only someone who was loved can give love to others (the series hammers this point quite strongly), therefore we're talking about a connection of love with no beginning and no end IMO.
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Old 2011-12-24, 01:19   Link #89
Kirarakim
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Well, you could say that Shouma started everything because he decided to rescue Himari. But if you think about it, he could only do this because he was already loved (ie: by his parents). So it's not only a connection between these three, and Shouma is certainly not the beginning point.
But I still think it is since the circle is

Shouma---Himari---Kanba---1/2 to Shouma.


And I understand that Shouma needed to find his own purpose/apple hence why he was never full but I still can't discount what Kanba did for Shouma that this did save him until he did find that apple.
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Old 2011-12-24, 01:28   Link #90
Kazu-kun
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But I still think it is since the circle is

Shouma---Himari---Kanba---1/2 to Shouma.
Ok, I don't see it that way but that's ok. This is Ikuhara after all.

On another note, I love this thing.

Spoiler for image:



EDIT: I just read Draggle's blog post on the final and he has a beautiful Christian (and gnostic) take on it. It's definitely worth a read:

http://blog.draggle.org/mawaru-pengu...fruit-of-fate/


EDIT 2:

This is from the Penguindrum event (or a Kossori, I'm not sure):
Quote:
Marie (Ringo VA)'s favorite scene is the one when Ringo is washing the dishes with Shouma "like a married couple" (sic). Marie and Ryouhei rehearsed that scene countless times and they kept changing the overall mood everytime they did it, but both of them were really happy with the final result.
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Old 2011-12-24, 03:53   Link #91
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I love how many interpretations are there already
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Old 2011-12-24, 04:12   Link #92
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And I love how many RingoxShoma fanart are getting posted on Pixiv. My god, the Japanese are totally crazy about these two right now .
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Old 2011-12-24, 04:36   Link #93
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Unique rollercoaster, was okay while it lasted.

So the three points i think i have gotten from this episode is that;
-The diary does not do anything. The 'magic words' of Okinome is basically 'self-giving' eg. by using her own body to shield everyone from the explosion (from the teddy bear bombs).
-The penguindrum is probably the vital organs of Shoma + Kanba to give Himari (and Mario?) the life to survive again.
-Kanba and Shoma in little boy form walking with penguins concludes they are now non-visible entities or dead.

One thing this last ep could have done without is the whole 'it was all a dream, nobody remembers' ending. In fact, that probably butchered every (if any) relevant plot in this series. Because seriously, what on earth could have caused super amnesia to befall the Sister, the Stalker, Himari, and everyone/everything in existence?

If this is the original creator's idea of 'true magic', then it was very unthoughtful & ridiculous (even for a ridiculous show). Other than that, it was alright.

Last edited by SukyAnime2; 2011-12-24 at 14:15.
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Old 2011-12-24, 05:51   Link #94
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This diagram I came across might help:
Spoiler for space:


Also I just realised that Satenoshi totally screwed up big time. Had he not given those scarves to Double H, then Double H never would've visited Himari's house and Ringo wouldn't have found the spell.
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Old 2011-12-24, 06:21   Link #95
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Happy but sad ending. It was kind of hard to watch knowing they went their seperate ways. I'll miss this anime, one of the best of the year.
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Old 2011-12-24, 11:10   Link #96
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Originally Posted by NaweG View Post
So why is it I felt good about the other two, and this one left me feeling... meh? Maybe because it felt like in those first two there was a struggle and ultimately while it was bittersweet there was still some promise while this one seemed to be more of "best compromise that can be made given the rules"...
Indeed.

Since people seemed to have difficulty understanding my original complaint I shall try to expand on it.

First, here is Eschaton's analysis of the symbolism from a post over in the show thread at TV Tropes:

Spoiler for It's all about love:


I don't want to get bogged down in analyzing all of the symbolism. It's enough to say that it comes down to: "This is all about love"

Additionally, it is clear that Shouma and Kanba where from the beginning built up as opposing opposites. Once we realize "This is all about love" this contrast becomes clear.

Kanba represents "Love As Sacrifice." Kanba is constantly sacrificing himself for those he loves. As he becomes darker, and falls under the power of the Tempter (Sanetoshi), Kanba begins to sacrifice others for his love. Thus we see both the light and the dark sides of Kanba's conception of love as sacrifice.

Shouma represents "Love As Connections" (I can't really find the one word to describe this, but connection is as close as I can get). Shouma is constantly trying to build connections with those he loves. Entangling themselves together emotionally, creating a unity of souls. Shouma creates relationships of affection, affinity, and affiliation.

At the start, Shouma is the one who keeps Kanba rooted, Kanba seems to sense this as he originally tries to protect Shouma from the effects as Kanba falls into darkness. Shouma begins to become the light alter ego of the dark Kanba.

We see the strength in Shouma's approach in the first half of the show, as Shouma is struggling to save Ringo from her madness. Ringo is lost, but Shouma goes and finds her, and through the strength of his affection and affiliation he is able to infiltrate Ringo's defenses and call her back to light. Once Ringo realizes "I love Shouma" she then abandons her darkness and becomes a figure of light. She has been rescued by the connection Shouma built with her.

Meanwhile, in the first half of the show we see Kanba sacrificing himself for Himari, confident that he will succeed. The height of this is when he successfully rescues the hat (Himari's life source) from the garbage truck.

Then at the mid-point we enter the frustration stage. Ringo has been rescued, but the diary is lost. Shouma (representing Kanba's light half) is injured and threatened, Kanba begins to lose confidence that he can save Himari. Then the Tempter appears to Kanba suggesting he can save Himari by sacrificing others.

We also begin to see the dark side of Shouma: passive despair. Shouma is losing the connection to his family, both Himari and Kanba. He rejects Ringo. Instead of staying involved with Kanba he decides to just blindly trust in him. He becomes centered on himself- not selfish, just incapable of reaching out to anyone else anymore. Shouma cannot resist fate, he can only passively accept it. This reaches it's peak when he tries to use his connection with Kanba to call him back from darkness into light. Not only does this fail, but Kanba cuts off their relationship, shattering Shouma's family. We don't see as clear a scene of this as we do for Kanba, but the Tempter is also interacting with Shouma throughout this period; encouraging Shouma to stay passive and hopeless.

Then we enter the final stage when Himari is now on her (final) death bed. Kanba is called back to the light by his younger sister, but he rejects her, leading to Masako's destruction. Meanwhile Ringo reaches out to Shouma again, and he accepts her- Shouma begins to heal and is re-empowered to represent the forces of life to Kanba's forces of death.

Notice as we are going along that the other major contrast in the show (Sanetoshi and Momoka) is between these dark and light versions. Momoka represents self-sacrifice and connections with others. Sanetoshi represents sacrifice of others and a self-centered despair that he can never truly connect with others.

At this point it is all great stuff, a very well done symbolic story. It then falls apart in the final episode.

In the final episode Shouma uses his connection with Kanba (the Penguindrum), returning it to Kanba (a sacrifice of himself and restoring their connection), thus empowering Kanba to finally sacrifice himself to save Himari. Meanwhile Ringo tries to sacrifice herself to save Himari (and by extension Shouma and Kanba), but Shouma stops her, rejecting her offer and instead sacrificing himself to save Ringo (echoing his earlier sacrifice when he saved her from the car).

We are then left with Kanba and Shouma together in the "other world" and Ringo and Himari together in the "real world," with no memory of Shouma or Kanba.

There are three major problems with this ending:

1: The first problem is that Kanba is separated from Himari (his other half) and Shouma is separated from Ringo (his other half). Nor is there any hint that they will ever be reunited.

Now perhaps you might say that this is all about family love not romantic love and thus Shouma and Kanba being reunited is a good ending. This could be so: if the show had been setting that up! But that is not the direction the show was going. Himari was revealed to be unrelated to Shouma and Kanba. The show was filled with people trying to find their correct other halves, and all the mistakes and misjudgements along the way:

Ringo thought Tabuki was her other half, but instead she discovers it was Shouma (and once this discovery is made she becomes at peace with herself). Tabuki and Yuri both think Momoka is their other half, until finally they come to realize that they are each others other half (and so they become happy). Sanetoshi thinks that Momoka is his other half, but because she won't accept his self-centered destruction of the world Sanetoshi rejects her and tries to destroy Momoka (leading to his tragic end, alone and without love). Himari at first thinks Shouma is her other half, until she realizes that Shouma is Ringo's other half. Kanba knows from the beginning that Himari is his other half, but Shouma's creation of them as a family is blocking him.

The whole show has been building up to create the correct pairings that will lead each individual to happiness in a untied whole of man and woman. Kanba, Shouma, Himari, and Ringo in particular are at the correct age for this as they are on the verge of becoming adults, and forming a pair bonding with their other half is a major element of maturity.

Then at the end Kanba and Himari acknowledge each other as other halves, and Shouma finally acknowledges Ringo as his other half (the emotional climax of the ending as several people have noticed). But then they are ripped apart. Not only are they separated with no promise of being reunited, but Himari and Ringo both forget their other halves. This is particularly cruel to Ringo, as it essentially deprived her of half her character development with just a wave of a magic wand.

All four of the main characters are regressed to childhood. Shouma and Kanba explicitly.

WTH?!

2: Instead of the natural moral that love is both sacrifice and connections, requiring a balance of the two, we end up with an ending that suggests Kanba was right, love is sacrifice. This is driven home by the forgetting of Shouma and Kanba by their other halves Himari and Ringo. Not only are the connections severed in the end, but they are forgotten, erased as if they never were!

3: A major sub-plot was Kanba's inability to accept Himari's death. All men die, and part of maturity is acceptance of this. Not in despair as Shouma did, but in a healthy way. Kanba never accepts Himari's death, to the point that he chooses destroying the world as preferable to Himari dying. Kanba never rejects this viewpoint. Isn't that strange?

The natural ending would have been for Shouma to return the penguindrum to Kanba, for Kanba to try and sacrifice it to Himari so that she can live. Himari rejects this offer and embraces Kanba with the penguindrum between them creating a connection binding them together. Kanba then comes to realize that his purpose was not to sacrifice his life so that Himari can live on alone, but to sacrifice himself (so that he no longer is a figure alone running off in his own direction, but is instead bound to another soul) so that he and Himari can be united in the afterlife.

Kanba and Himari then enter the train of destiny together, with Shouma following them. Ringo tries to sacrifice herself to return them to life, but Shouma embraces her telling her he loves her and that this is their punishment that he accepts. As he begins to leave Ringo reaches out and grabs his hand and announces that she will share the punishment with him, pulling him back to her in an embrace. Revealing their own penguindrum between them binding them together as Himari and Kanba were bound.

We then see an epilogue with Ringo and Shouma together in life, remembering Himari and Kanba, with the understanding that someday they too will die and join them in the afterlife- while Kanba and Himari watch over them before leaving on their "journey" into this "other world."

That would bring the story to it's complete and final end. All things would be in balance and united wholeness, love would be established as requiring both sacrifice and connections, and death would be revealed as natural and not be feared- it's the separation caused by death that should be feared, not the end of life.

That would have been a good bittersweet ending. Instead the ending we got was a lesser downer ending.

This show was frustrating because it was all built up correctly and then at the end it missed the mark.
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Last edited by Sackett; 2011-12-24 at 11:39.
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Old 2011-12-24, 11:37   Link #97
susyia
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so in the end shoma and kamba are back..... but in children form?? they still have the curse whit them??
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Old 2011-12-24, 12:31   Link #98
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Unfortunately that was a misunderstanding. The ending is the same. The novel's just going to expand it a bit with extended scenes and such.
Are you serious!!!! WHAT THE HELL MAN, SAME ENDING AUGH THIS IS GONA BOTHER ME FOR EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND NO KISSING ,wow what a freaking way to end!

To be forgotten is the same as being dead, just take those romance movie where the wife forget the husband!!!
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Old 2011-12-24, 12:47   Link #99
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Originally Posted by Sackett View Post
I don't want to get bogged down in analyzing all of the symbolism. It's enough to say that it comes down to: "This is all about love"

Additionally, it is clear that Shouma and Kanba where from the beginning built up as opposing opposites. Once we realize "This is all about love" this contrast becomes clear.
I've gotta go with Kazu-kun. The penguin drum isn't simply love but purpose as well, and the one Sho gave to Himari isn't the one he received from Kanba -- in fact, I think it's a mistake to treat the apple too literally, as though it's an object being passed around. Shouma had no purpose of his own and had to borrow one from Kanba, which is why their penguin drum is symbolized by a split apple. But with Himari, Shouma didn't share his purpose with her -- he gave her one (himself).

I'd also argue that the diary was a sort of penguin drum as well and the reason the PotC was so cagey about it wasn't Kanba and Shouma's penguin drum. Rather the diary was the embodiment of Ringo's original purpose, to reunite her family. Notice that like Kanba's apple, the diary was split in half, but in this case it was because of Yuri's desire to bring back Momoka and Masako's quest to reunite her own family. But while all three goals involve love, there's a certain greediness to them, as though they aren't as purely motivated as Kanba's desire to save Himari. And in all three cases, they were better off abandoning the diary for something else -- Tabuki, Mario, and Shouma.
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Old 2011-12-24, 14:06   Link #100
Catalan
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Join Date: Dec 2003
If all that apple giving is supposed to be metaphor, not literal, then it's probably a mistake to try to assign some kind of chronological order to who gave what to whom. The exchange may not even represent any specific action at a single moment in time. Giving someone an apple could be seen as being there for someone when they need you in their lives the most. Just don't ask me how that's supposed to make any sense in terms of Kanba and Shouma disappearing at the end.
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