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Old 2011-12-27, 01:46   Link #21
Marcus H.
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Old 2011-12-27, 05:52   Link #22
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I see why the anime came back to canon and is going so fast, it's because the current arc was close to an end the day they came back to canon. So no fillers before the end of the arc in the anime.
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Old 2011-12-27, 06:35   Link #23
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Yukio didn't kill his parents, his father committed suicide and Tsuki died
He basically drove them to suicide, that counts the same as killing them in my book.
Tsukishima died? When? WE have no evidence that, we only saw him close his eyes and smile while he was carried of by a friend...that does not mean death.


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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Tsukishima was wrong but he wasn't that bad either....
No...no...he wasn't bad, he just liked fucking with people's minds just to see how far he could go. That is certainly not a bad thing.
No matter how you cut it or what BS redemption Kubo tries to play on us, Tsukishima just didn't completely break Orihime and Chad because he was stopped, not out of the goodness of his heart.


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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
I believe executive meddling forced Kubo to cut it short
First, and possibly only time, I would actually thank Shounen Jump for meddling with a manga.
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Old 2011-12-27, 06:39   Link #24
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Tsukishima survived?! HOW?!!

I can understand Shinigami, that is not a "material" being to survive after a hole in the chest (althouth, Ichigo almost died to that last time, when confronting Ulquiorra, and he definitely wasn't able to move)... but a human?! Without any regenerative/protective abilities? o.O

*facepalms*
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Old 2011-12-27, 08:39   Link #25
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imo, the last page seemed to have implied Tsukishima died.
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Old 2011-12-27, 09:20   Link #26
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He's dead, when ever someone is carrying another like that emplies that he dies during the carrying...ing...

Happened in

Spoiler for diffrent anime spoiler:
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Old 2011-12-27, 09:22   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
imo, the last page seemed to have implied Tsukishima died.
doesn't matter whether he lived or died though, it still doesn't change anything. the arc still ended with a lot of loose ends and questions that need answering.
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Old 2011-12-27, 10:05   Link #28
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just replying to certain people
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Old 2011-12-27, 10:40   Link #29
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Tsukishima died? When? WE have no evidence that, we only saw him close his eyes and smile while he was carried of by a friend...that does not mean death.
haha anyone else ever seen:
Spoiler for the movie:
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Old 2011-12-27, 12:41   Link #30
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Don't really understand what the hell just happened. I expected Kubo to go into flashback mode or something similar to try and make the fullbringers more sympathetic but it seems like he couldn't even be arsed doing that. Feels like i've skipped several chapters.

Oh whatever. As long as this whole thing ends. The only good thing about this entire arc was Riruka. Otherwise it's just random filler except for a possible new fullbringer group coming in later as Ichigo's allies/next antagonists.
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Old 2011-12-27, 20:09   Link #31
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
He's dead, when ever someone is carrying another like that emplies that he dies during the carrying...ing...

Happened in

Spoiler for diffrent anime spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-12-27, 21:11   Link #32
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I'm actually willing to except LoP's excuse of executive meddling, while to some this may be good...to me, it was bad because this ending is shoe horned rushed as all fuck considering this arc takes place to what is perceived as the near end of this series...
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Old 2011-12-27, 21:31   Link #33
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Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
I'm actually willing to except LoP's excuse of executive meddling, while to some this may be good...to me, it was bad because this ending is shoe horned rushed as all fuck considering this arc takes place to what is perceived as the near end of this series...
It's definitely not the near end of the series, but I also would have rather they did it as good as it could have been. granted the 'meddling' is only a rumor but if it is true, then I wish they hadn't. It was a weak arc, but the crappy end made it worse. I wouldn't have minded a couple more months of it as long as it made the story better and perhaps got exciting. I was actually excited to learn ginjo was a sub shinigami, then nothing very interesting happened after that imo. a sweet ginjo backstory would have been cool
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Old 2011-12-27, 22:10   Link #34
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Man that's such a lovely sun rise; i'm so glad that Kubo took the time to draw such beautiful scenery.
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Old 2011-12-28, 01:10   Link #35
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
He basically drove them to suicide, that counts the same as killing them in my book.
It might be but the fact remains, that he didn't kill anyone. Sucide is called Suicide because the person kills themselves. Sure his taking the company drove his father to it. Fact remains, he didn't kill anyone. He just didn't care if they died, but then again that wasn't exactly true. The same way he wants to come back for Jackie & the others, after saying he didn't care about them.

You might not like him but he's redeemable because he hasn't actually killed anyone.
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Tsukishima died? When? WE have no evidence that, we only saw him close his eyes and smile while he was carried of by a friend...that does not mean death.
He's human and he has a hole put through him. He died...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
No...no...he wasn't bad, he just liked fucking with people's minds just to see how far he could go.
No he did because it's what Ginjou wanted to do.

Although it's easy to understand why he would use such a power. He steals the bonds of others because he had none. Well at least he didn't until he met Ginjou
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
That is certainly not a bad thing.
It's not good but it's not really evil either. He actually showed compassion when Ichigo cried.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
No matter how you cut it or what BS redemption Kubo tries to play on us, Tsukishima just didn't completely break Orihime and Chad because he was stopped, not out of the goodness of his heart.
He was stopped and he made quite a raepface, but it still doesn't make him evil. He's no saint I agree but he's actually reedeemable. Giriko was the only one who was truly rotten

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post


First, and possibly only time, I would actually thank Shounen Jump for meddling with a manga.
I wish they they didn't but the abrupt ending made me think they did do it because it's not how Kubo does things

Although, I don't think we need that much explanation for Ginjou. He's human-shinigami baby and one of his parents were fullbringers. For whatever reason he was alone and he bonded with the others because he felt a kinship with them because he wasn't exactly human and he had hollow powers as well. He learned the SS would exterminate him the moment they decided he outlived his usefulness and was bitter about it.

End. Of. Story.

I enjoyed the chapter and my favorite girl is still alive and may join Ichigo's team. So I'm good with that.


Also Orihime forgot so there will be no angsty moments with her and Ichigo...arc ended with IchiRuki (last week) as all the others before this one. As an IchiRuki shipper, I am doubly happy with this chapter
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Old 2011-12-28, 01:54   Link #36
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She was brainwashed at the time to think Ichigo was the outlaw, but still felt for him. So the feelings are certainly just as strong, even if she doesn't remember the details :P

Lol'd at how Riruka just stole Rukia's spotlight though. Literally used her.

I hope that Yukio gets some just desserts. Though he's more like an underpowered future villain for now.
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Old 2011-12-28, 07:16   Link #37
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
It might be but the fact remains, that he didn't kill anyone. Sucide is called Suicide because the person kills themselves. Sure his taking the company drove his father to it. Fact remains, he didn't kill anyone. He just didn't care if they died, but then again that wasn't exactly true. The same way he wants to come back for Jackie & the others, after saying he didn't care about them.

You might not like him but he's redeemable because he hasn't actually killed anyone.
I agree that he is redeemable...I just think he needs a bit more punishment xD


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
He's human and he has a hole put through him. He died...
Your assumptions =/= Truth
Unless Kubo states he is dead you CANNOT say he is dead or alive, just that he is injured and carried off by mohawk boy. This is manga...stupider things have happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
No he did because it's what Ginjou wanted to do.

Although it's easy to understand why he would use such a power. He steals the bonds of others because he had none. Well at least he didn't until he met Ginjou

It's not good but it's not really evil either. He actually showed compassion when Ichigo cried.


He was stopped and he made quite a raepface, but it still doesn't make him evil. He's no saint I agree but he's actually reedeemable. Giriko was the only one who was truly rotten
I suppose we have different opinions on what is redeemable then because to me, a dude that enjoys himself in breaking other people's bonds and minds, regardless of his reasons, isn't redeemable and it annoys me greatly when Kubo (or any other though Kubo does this a lot) tries to redeem such characters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
I wish they they didn't but the abrupt ending made me think they did do it because it's not how Kubo does things

Although, I don't think we need that much explanation for Ginjou. He's human-shinigami baby and one of his parents were fullbringers. For whatever reason he was alone and he bonded with the others because he felt a kinship with them because he wasn't exactly human and he had hollow powers as well. He learned the SS would exterminate him the moment they decided he outlived his usefulness and was bitter about it.

End. Of. Story.

I enjoyed the chapter and my favorite girl is still alive and may join Ichigo's team. So I'm good with that.


Also Orihime forgot so there will be no angsty moments with her and Ichigo...arc ended with IchiRuki (last week) as all the others before this one. As an IchiRuki shipper, I am doubly happy with this chapter
Well we all know that Bleach has dropped from the top for a while now and most people have noted that this arc was boring and useless filler. This arc had the same feeling of the Bount arc in the anime to me. I suppose if Kubo was forced to end the arc, it was because even in Japan, people had this same feeling and weren't all that happy about it.

PS: I suppose the only good thing about this arc for me was Riruka, which quickly made me wish she would replace Orihime's OP yet useless ass.
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Old 2011-12-28, 07:50   Link #38
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
It might be but the fact remains, that he didn't kill anyone. Sucide is called Suicide because the person kills themselves. Sure his taking the company drove his father to it. Fact remains, he didn't kill anyone. He just didn't care if they died, but then again that wasn't exactly true. The same way he wants to come back for Jackie & the others, after saying he didn't care about them.

You might not like him but he's redeemable because he hasn't actually killed anyone.
Yes but it takes a lot more to make him sympathetic, which is what the manga failed to do.

Quote:
No he did because it's what Ginjou wanted to do.

Although it's easy to understand why he would use such a power. He steals the bonds of others because he had none. Well at least he didn't until he met Ginjou

It's not good but it's not really evil either. He actually showed compassion when Ichigo cried.

He was stopped and he made quite a raepface, but it still doesn't make him evil. He's no saint I agree but he's actually reedeemable. Giriko was the only one who was truly rotten
He mind rapes people and had to be warned by Ginjou not to take it too far because he was going to break Inoue and Chad's minds. If it's possible for a human to be evil then yeah, he's evil. At the very least Ginjou was confident that Tsukishima would follow orders enough to kill his most loyal subordinate so if he is just amoral then it's still hard to consider him sympathetic all of a sudden.

Quote:
Although, I don't think we need that much explanation for Ginjou. He's human-shinigami baby and one of his parents were fullbringers. For whatever reason he was alone and he bonded with the others because he felt a kinship with them because he wasn't exactly human and he had hollow powers as well. He learned the SS would exterminate him the moment they decided he outlived his usefulness and was bitter about it.

End. Of. Story.
Except for what exactly he was trying to achieve by starting this whole mess, why he felt lonely, why Soul Society felt the need to kill him and most importantly why the hell we should even care. (as well as numerous other small details like how Ginjou became a substitute shinigami in the first place, how he found out Soul Society was trying to kill him and how he managed to escape)

In any case the whole Fullbringer group should at least be captured and have some sort of trail considering just how much mess they caused and how much of a danger they were, but for some bizarre reason Soul Society is willing to let them go. Being grey only works if it actually makes sense...
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Old 2011-12-28, 12:44   Link #39
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i assume he died because he closed his eyes, smiled...faded out to white like he finally accepted death because his friend didnt leave him, but tried to teach him hes never alone.
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Old 2011-12-28, 13:54   Link #40
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
I agree that he is redeemable...I just think he needs a bit more punishment xD
He got was punished enough, he lost the only friends and family he's ever truly had. He also got own by someone who is more arrogant than he was. That had to hurt, sine he thought he was invincible.

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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post

Your assumptions =/= Truth
Unless Kubo states he is dead you CANNOT say he is dead or alive, just that he is injured and carried off by mohawk boy. This is manga...stupider things have happened.
He was carried out before the only person who can restore, restored him. She wasn't around and no Shinigami healed him either.

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I suppose we have different opinions on what is redeemable then because to me, a dude that enjoys himself in breaking other people's bonds and minds, regardless of his reasons, isn't redeemable and it annoys me greatly when Kubo (or any other though Kubo does this a lot) tries to redeem such characters.
I don't believe he's trying to redeem him, he is redeemable-- but I think it was more or less to show why he would follow Ginjou when his powers seemed superior and it also helps to explain why he had such a power. Since hollow powers are based on the soul
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post

Well we all know that Bleach has dropped from the top for a while now and most people have noted that this arc was boring and useless filler. This arc had the same feeling of the Bount arc in the anime to me. I suppose if Kubo was forced to end the arc, it was because even in Japan, people had this same feeling and weren't all that happy about it.
I don't think it was boring or pointless. They're nothing like the bounts
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
PS: I suppose the only good thing about this arc for me was Riruka, which quickly made me wish she would replace Orihime's OP yet useless ass.
she's not useless. She's mobile hospital, she doesn't have to fight. Rejection ability is her greatest asset. We have enough warrior women, we don't need Orihime to be one too. I like her just fine the way she i---OKAY TOTAL LIE!!! There are a few things about her character I would change, so she'd be likable but fighting isn't one of them.

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She was brainwashed at the time to think Ichigo was the outlaw, but still felt for him. So the feelings are certainly just as strong, even if she doesn't remember the details :P
I am not denying that she feels for him, her feelings for Ichigo are strong. Just not strong enough to be on Ichigo's side. She went against him, even Byakuya was able to fight Tsukishima, no matter what bonds he believed they had.

If only Orihime did that, and if she doesn't remember Tsukishima she might no remember going against Ichigo so there is no need for heartwarming make up scene. Something that makes me very happy XD

Rukia didn't get bookmarked at all and had an unwavering belief in Ichigo.

Looks like the KuchiKi's feelings are stronger
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
Lol'd at how Riruka just stole Rukia's spotlight though. Literally used her.
Lol how she stole the spotlight from Orihime too. Ichigo was so concerned over Riruka waited for her to awake, (NOT ORIHIME) and even gave her a tender look when Orihime asks if she's crying.

Orihime's cuteness went unnoticed by Ichigo, again. Literally ignored her.
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Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
I hope that Yukio gets some just desserts. Though he's more like an underpowered future villain for now.
More like an overpowered brat

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Yes but it takes a lot more to make him sympathetic, which is what the manga failed to do.
Speak for yourself, I found him very sympathetic at the end. I guess your Mileage May Vary on this one


Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
He mind rapes people and had to be warned by Ginjou not to take it too far because he was going to break Inoue and Chad's minds. If it's possible for a human to be evil then yeah, he's evil. At the very least Ginjou was confident that Tsukishima would follow orders enough to kill his most loyal subordinate so if he is just amoral then it's still hard to consider him sympathetic all of a sudden.
Another example of Mileage May Vary


It's subjective and has to do with the reader's own morals. Because there are some that would see, doing whatever is required to help the one you love. As a sign of devotion and love. It's a romantic notion no matter how bad his actions were.Humans can be evil but, it depends on one's perceptions of evil. No matter how much he enjoyed it, it doesn't necessarily make him evil

Griko was an evil character. He decided to kill his wife on a whim.


Tousen put it best---
Quote:
"Justice without a great cause begets nothing more than slaughter. However, that same slaughter in the name of a great cause is justice."
It depends on the reader's code of ethics, morals, and how much they're willing to forgive if they believe the reasons for character's motivation were valid ones.


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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Edited by LoP
Except for what exactly he was trying to achieve by starting this whole mess, why he felt lonely,
  • He's a minor character, we don't really need to know all that. All we need to know is, he was lonely.
  • What was he trying to achieve? Power--the power to protect himself from those that would kill him.


why Soul Society felt the need to kill him
  • Probably because he was a Shinigami-Human Hybrid with Hollow powers. SS doesn't look to kindly on Hollow-Shinigami hybrids.


and most importantly why the hell we should even care
  • You're not supposed to care, he's a minor character, who was created simply to develop Chad and help Ichigo get his powers back and reveal that SS used Ichigo and intended to kill him. You're supposed to care about Ichigo not Ginjou

. (as well as numerous other small details like how Ginjou became a substitute shinigami in the first place,
  • Use your imagination. He's a Shinigami-human baby, the "how's" and "why's" doesn't matter. Those are minor details. He's also a Shinigami subsitute. That's all we need to know
how he found out Soul Society was trying to kill him

  • Again that's a minor detail. "How" he found out isn't important, he did find out and that's all that matters
and how he managed to escape)
  • He did escape, he disappeared and again that's a minor detail. He managed to escape and they had no idea where he was.
  • Because they didn't know where he was, they intended to use Ichigo to flush him out, then destroy them both. That's all we need to know.
I think it's easier to edit your post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
In any case the whole Fullbringer group should at least be captured and have some sort of trail considering just how much mess they caused and how much of a danger they were, but for some bizarre reason Soul Society is willing to let them go. Being grey only works if it actually makes sense...
They're humans and it's not like they held the fate of the world in their hands. SS can't do much to them, because they weren't trying to end the world. As Rukia said "There job is to protect humans not punish them"

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i assume he died because he closed his eyes, smiled...faded out to white like he finally accepted death because his friend didnt leave him, but tried to teach him hes never alone.
Just like Starrk. You didn't actually see him die, but you know he died....
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