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Old 2011-12-27, 08:47   Link #1221
ZeroIchiNi
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@Aaron008R
Thanks for the semi-translation. I did have trouble understanding it when I was playing it.

So Hayate knows about Uncle Graham. What happened to "Let her know when she can take care of herself"? Oh well. The badblood interactions between her group and the Twins are still interesting.
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Old 2011-12-27, 09:30   Link #1222
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That hesitation at Amitie being an idiot? Totally worth it. Girl be awesome.
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Old 2011-12-27, 09:54   Link #1223
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After some testing, I would like to say Yunno is really the teacher of Nanoha. His triangle Protection Smash attack cannot be stop by most attacks, including Nanoha's Divine Buster. Really tough I guess.
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Old 2011-12-27, 10:17   Link #1224
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From what I've learned so far from the story mode

Thoma/Lily and Vivio had a match/several matches in this timeline. He knows enough that Vivio participated in the inter-middle, is a counter attack specialist. He also knows about Einhart

He is DEATHLY afraid of Hayate. I wonder why. She hasn't shown anything scary so far in Force
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Old 2011-12-27, 10:19   Link #1225
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
From what I've learned so far from the story mode

Thoma/Lily and Vivio had a match/several matches in this timeline. He knows enough that Vivio participated in the inter-middle, is a counter attack specialist. He also knows about Einhart

He is DEATHLY afraid of Hayate. I wonder why. She hasn't shown anything scary so far in Force
Wonder could it be that he was trounced in a mock battle with Hayate in it ?
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Old 2011-12-27, 10:33   Link #1226
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According to the story, Touma and Vivio's age are only apart by a few years, but in this game, he his 15+ while she is only 10. The explanation given is that Vivio only knew Touma recently and have spoken to him via long-distance while in Touma's time, he knew both Vivio and Einhart and have a least sparred with them a few times.
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Old 2011-12-27, 10:35   Link #1227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhl88 View Post

Anyway... the second scary part of being Touma:

...Thoma's pretty bad in this game. I actually had to restart several times and eventually I said 'Screw it' and recorded my losses....

His melee attacks are slow. Faster melee characters like Vivio, Einhalt and yes Vita make quick work of him. His ranged options aren't that great either and it basicly boils down to situational attacks.


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Originally Posted by Aaron008R View Post

Just kidding. Yep. Yami-chan is one hell of a powerhouse. If your new to the game, you'll be hard pressed in winning against her with anything other than a timeout. It gets easier as you get more accustomed to the characters later, specially melee ones. My Einhart makes swiss cheese out of this Adorable Eldritch Doomsday Loli.
Amen to that, so true...

Every match with her I've kept trying to whittle her down to zero but before I know it the timeout kicks in. Thankfully most instances ended with me having more health.
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Old 2011-12-27, 10:46   Link #1228
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Thoma is not that bad, I mean yeah he is slow but he makes it up by being rather strong and having a really good length on all of his attacks. I think only U-D beats him in range.

His ranged attacks are hard to use I'll give you that.
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Old 2011-12-27, 10:50   Link #1229
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Touma is good in mid-range. The Silver Hammer is mid range. The best way would be using Crimson Slash for poking and using the Silver Cross to start his combo. At least his attack range during cross range is huge and is rated second to Shamal I belive. Need not worry about not hitting after doing an accel turn which happens sometimes with characters like Vivio.
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Old 2011-12-27, 11:02   Link #1230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rxrx View Post
According to the story, Touma and Vivio's age are only apart by a few years, but in this game, he his 15+ while she is only 10. The explanation given is that Vivio only knew Touma recently and have spoken to him via long-distance while in Touma's time, he knew both Vivio and Einhart and have a least sparred with them a few times.
Well, yes.. that's my point

in this timeline he already had a few matches with Vivio

This hasn't happened yet in Force
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Old 2011-12-27, 11:33   Link #1231
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Originally Posted by OrderNorChaos View Post
Wonder could it be that he was trounced in a mock battle with Hayate in it ?
In the epilogue of the game, we see what Hayate-chan does to Touma. Basically Touma, Lily and Isis destroy the training area that they we were using. Vita obviously gets pissed in her usual fashion, the same fashion she used against Teana and Subaru mostly since they were the troublemaking pair. In short, Hayate-chan thinks of the punishment of having Touma, Lily and Isis basically fight together in a mock battle against Hayate-chan, Nanoha and Vita. This scares them, especially since at that point in time they know how strong everyone is.

To put it short, it's her demeanor as a commander and how she thinks of the punishments. If you remember, the StrikerS kids used to deal with the A's cast in mock battles before, usually getting trounced rather easily. A's to StrikerS manga even shows Signum, Rein Zwei and Schach easily beating the StrikerS kids without a problem.

This eludes that Touma, now thanks to his partner with Lily, has control over the Divider. BUT Touma has no actual combat experience on his own, and is a sheer novice when in combat. Even with all that power that a Divider is eluded to have, he has no combat experience to use it to its fullest like when he was under the auto-defense mode when fighting against Nanoha. Now that he is being trained, he's scared like heck cause he now realizes the sheer difference in battle experience and battle prowess between him and the rest of the cast. Though he's scared cause the mock battles always seem like he may die.

Last edited by Hayate22; 2011-12-27 at 11:46.
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Old 2011-12-27, 12:09   Link #1232
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So, wait. Let me see if I have this straight:

The Unbreakable Darkness was a Lost Logia that possibly predates Ancient Belka.

The Ancient Belkans created the Tome of the Night Sky as a seal to contain the Unbreakable Darkness, but apparently kept this a secret from everyone else, including the Tome's own administration program (Reinforce), which is why Reinforce didn't know about it and Yuuno didn't find anything about it in his research, and why the Tome uses the Belkan Magical System instead of anything Alhazardian.

Perhaps the Tome's function of a respository of all magical knowledge was twofold: Not merely a way to make constructive use of an indestructible powersource, but also a way to hide a doomsday device behind something relatively innocuous.

But later, another Ancient Belkan decided to corrupt the Tome of the Night Sky into the Book of Darkness, making a doomsday device out of the seal for another doomsday device. Which would be especially ironic if they didn't actually know about the Unbreakable Darkness.


And as a side question, Dearche, Stern and Levi are all subordinate parts of the Unbreakable Darkness, or something?
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Old 2011-12-27, 12:28   Link #1233
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They were originally part of her

The 3 materials and U-D were originally supposed to be one being

Then Materials took upon Nanoha, Fate and Hayate's physical appearance to manifest physically, and they started to develop more individuality

I think the timeline is like this

Ancient Belkans discover U-D, but they can't figure out a practical way to use it.
A Unison Device Administrator program is attached to manage U-D. It becomes possible to utilize it. It is now known as Tome of the Night Sky
Someone tampers with the program, turning it berserk. It becomes the infamous Tome of Darkness
Using U-D's power the tome makes the Wolkenritter as its guardians
A's event starts
Hayate separates the Administrator program Reinforce and Wolkenritter from the "Tome's Darkness"

================================================== =====
Timeline split:

Original timeline: Reinforce sacrifices herself to make sure the Darkness never regenerates.
PSP timeline: Reinforce does not sacrifice herself. The Darkness regenerates over time.
================================================== =====

PSP timeline:

Having lost the Wolkenritter, the Darkness (later known as U-D) separates dark fragments of itself to fulfill the Wolkenritter role
Material S, is an aspect of U-D's wisdom
Material L, is an aspect of U-D's strength
Material D, is an aspect of U-D's lordship

Nanoha BOA event starts:

Materials are defeated, but given their nature they regenerate over time. By the time they fully regenerate in GOD, they have made and effort to differentiate themselves from their originals. (new magic circle color and more distinctive style)
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Last edited by Key Board; 2011-12-27 at 12:55.
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Old 2011-12-27, 12:59   Link #1234
Akiyoshi
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Wow i love the Wolkenritter being efficient and cool again xD! Zafira is plain awesome and his encounter with Linith was very interesting(i'm the only one amused at the idea of Zafira x Linith?), Vita is conflicted about the past, Shamal is a badass medic and Signum is a kind onee-san(the mental image of Signum offering herself to play with a little girl gives me warm feelings ^///^), also i like that there's better argumental story about her aftermath in Force, apparently she's close to Tohma and the fight with Cypha is indeed an important issue to her, i'll wait impatiently to see that develope in the Force manga.

Also i wonder if we can count this game as canon since is tying so many plot holes, it's unveliebable xD!

* For starters, Reinforce did a favor to us and finally confirms the energy of the dividers as something different from magic, so that debate is also over.

* The way i understanded it, the secret behind Reinforce's gargantuan power is that she was channeling U-D's power onto herself while administrating the Book with Yami-chan being the true invincible being of the franchise(well, aside of gameplay, of course xDU). Yami-chan seems to predate even Ancient Belkan so there's also the possibility she's from Al-Hazardian origins(i want to know the mage who sealed a freaking god in the Tome of the Night Sky, he/she must be like the most badass sorcerer of all times o_O!).

* Apparently the Materials are an unexpected developing in the U-D system as Yami-chan looked confused/unsettled to see them and realize that they're taking her power to fuel themselves. If Levi is to be believed they more likely started to exist some time after the U-D was sealed in the Tome of the Night Sky since Levi's first memories are of being inside the book and unable to properly play or communicate with her "sisters".

* Kyrie turns out into quite the well-indentioned extremist(with emphasis in EXTREME xDU) while Amitie turned out to be the Gurren-Lagann hero i always waited for xD!. Her sheer bravado is strong enough to overpower the combined might of the THREE ACES! Well, she's from the future, magic and technology must be a hella tons of levels more advanced/powerfull(it's the generation who survived the Eclipse after all) than in present day(which makes ten times more funny seeing Kyrie being beaten by Shamal of all people xDU).

* I sort of understand the Lieze Twins and many years have passed since i wanted to choke their necks so i think i can agree with Aria's offer of peace, also they're professional enough to understand reconciliation with the Yagami-ke is almost imposible so they just want to be at peace with them, it's a nice touch on the story. Also apparently their aura of might in A's was only due to the surprise element since everybody and their grandma is beating them in front combat here xDU.

Well, so far the story is interesting. Apparently the Materials/Florian sisters and Unbreakable Darkness are fairly above the Aces/Wolkenritter and Reinforce in the power scale respectively, so i wonder if a new free-for-all boss battle will be needed to face Yami-chan in the end.
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Old 2011-12-27, 13:13   Link #1235
Laith
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Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Also i wonder if we can count this game as canon since is tying so many plot holes, it's unveliebable xD!
Probably we can, same writers I believe.

Quote:
* I sort of understand the Lieze Twins and many years have passed since i wanted to choke their necks so i think i can agree with Aria's offer of peace, also they're professional enough to understand reconciliation with the Yagami-ke is almost imposible so they just want to be at peace with them, it's a nice touch on the story. Also apparently their aura of might in A's was only due to the surprise element since everybody and their grandma is beating them in front combat here xDU.
You're going to love Sequence 6

Quote:
Well, so far the story is interesting. Apparently the Materials/Florian sisters and Unbreakable Darkness are fairly above the Aces/Wolkenritter and Reinforce in the power scale respectively, so i wonder if a new free-for-all boss battle will be needed to face Yami-chan in the end.
They are not exactly stronger, as seen in the Levi vs Fate/Arf and the Stern vs Nanoha/Yuuno fights. They are more or less on the same level. The Florian sisters are also the same more or less, the attack that Amita used broke her device so its apt its pretty powerful.
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Old 2011-12-27, 13:16   Link #1236
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U-D is 99% likely Ancient Belkan.

She has a Belkan Triangle

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-12-27, 13:24   Link #1237
Akiyoshi
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Spoiler:
There's also the chance her original magic was altered since she was fused with the Tome of the Night Sky/Book of Darkness system for a very long time or that she finds the Belkan triangle as a convenient way to give structure and form to her raw unlimited power. also...

Spoiler for Great Scott!:
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Old 2011-12-27, 13:33   Link #1238
Keroko
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Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
Perhaps the Tome's function of a respository of all magical knowledge was twofold: Not merely a way to make constructive use of an indestructible powersource, but also a way to hide a doomsday device behind something relatively innocuous.

But later, another Ancient Belkan decided to corrupt the Tome of the Night Sky into the Book of Darkness, making a doomsday device out of the seal for another doomsday device. Which would be especially ironic if they didn't actually know about the Unbreakable Darkness.
How sure are we that the Night Sky was created specifically for the purpose of sealing UD, and not just used for that purpose because it was the best tool at hand?

In my mind the story goes like this: An unknown person created the Night Sky as an ultimate repository for magical information. A useful tool designed for study and education.

Then someone encounters/creates Unbreakable Darkness, and wants to use it as a weapon, but cannot control it. They obtain the Night Sky, and attempt to use the Night Sky to chain and control UD. It fails, and the Night Sky becomes the Book of Darkness.
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Old 2011-12-27, 13:39   Link #1239
Akiyoshi
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Then someone encounters/creates Unbreakable Darkness, and wants to use it as a weapon, but cannot control it. They obtain the Night Sky, and attempt to use the Night Sky to chain and control UD. It fails, and the Night Sky becomes the Book of Darkness.
There's also the possibility the U-D runs amok spreading chaos and destruction(just as she's doing right now) and after repeated failures at trying to beat/destroy her someone came up with the crazy idea of using the then revered tome of the Night Sky as an ultimate container for the Unbreakable Darkness, then the invetiable happens and the Book got corrupted in the process.
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Old 2011-12-27, 13:52   Link #1240
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There's also the chance her original magic was altered since she was fused with the Tome of the Night Sky/Book of Darkness system for a very long time or that she finds the Belkan triangle as a convenient way to give structure and form to her raw unlimited power. also...
She's not a person. She's not a mage. She's a system.

She didn't choose to learn Belka. She was made that way.
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