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Old 2011-12-27, 19:09   Link #61
grey_1960
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The Straw Hats all got taught by people from that era and experienced in the New World. They may be at an disadvantage from the New World Experience but they did get two years to sit down and learn from the best. That is an opportunity very few ever get. Learning from someone else experience is just has powerful. Yes I did point out how they became powerful but I also pointed out how fast they came to power.

Second, after that chat with Big Mamma I personally think things have become personal. Kidd destroyed Big Mamma's ship that was carrying gold, but Luffy just declared war directly to Big Mamma, took responsibility for the candy, and wants to make fisherman Island his turf. That is a bold action to take with a Yonkou. On top of that Zoro and Sanji don't seemed worried at all.

Luffy is displaying haki like Shanks, the straw Hat have already defeated two Shichibukai, Luffy would have destroyed Noah's arch if given the chance, and they just got done crushing 100,000 people without effort. Luffy is the only one who has shown off a lot of his abilities. If Zoro and Sanji are truly part of the monster trio then we have only seen a glimps of what the Straw Hats can do. I am just comparing what we know and the time line of other people in the One piece Universe. These two years of training was about closing the power gap.
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Old 2011-12-27, 19:19   Link #62
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I know it's been kinda mentioned before, but taking a look at the three-eyed girl and then going back and taking a look at Koala, the two do look rather similar, especially their eyes, and also her clothes kind of look similar to what Koala was wearing at first.
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Old 2011-12-27, 20:15   Link #63
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I miss Kidd.... hehehe
and Big momma is really BIG!!!! (who is that three-eyed girl??? Sanji's alarm will ring)

that declaration is obviously daring and dangerous... I don't know why should Luffy do that... but to bring Fishman island as their turf, that's a brilliant idea
actually I don't want Strawhat to clash with one of Yonkou... they should work together to kick Akainu!!
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Old 2011-12-27, 20:55   Link #64
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Quote:
I don't think the bee thing is right. How would that make her powerful enough to become a Yonkou? Acid? Maybe if she could use it on a HUGE scale but I agree it's too similar to Magellan.
Complete mastery of the fruit + haki. Luffy will become pirate king and yet he 'only' has plastic powers. This proves that you don't need an imbahax fruit to get to the very top.

If you have mastery of the fruit, you can turn parts of your body to that animal. I think it is pretty convincing because bees are a matriarchy, and it also explains Big Mom's animalistic tendency to cannibalize her crew.
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Old 2011-12-27, 22:28   Link #65
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
I wonder if Luffy is Yonkou material?
There's no way Luffy's Yonkou material right now. While he's improved substantially over the past 2 years, he still has a ways to go before reaching the top. I imagine that Luffy will receive his first crushing defeat in the New World from Big Mom. After all, who better than an emperor to put him in his place?
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Old 2011-12-27, 22:40   Link #66
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Hi I am new to these forums. I will not lie, I joined this forums mostly because of some "guy" named Aohige.
I have loved his input regarding OnePiece, so I figured since he left the forum I usually post on I will join him in another one if that is what it takes to hear what he has to say regarding the chapter. Hope I have come to the right spot
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Old 2011-12-27, 22:48   Link #67
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^ Welcome to the AnimeSuki Forums, BlueSan . Truth be told, Aohige doesn't post often over here. Regardless, you'll come across very interesting and intelligent discussions here amongst our respectful community. I'm sure you'll enjoy your stay here. Looking forward to reading your input on various One Piece topics.
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Old 2011-12-27, 22:58   Link #68
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There's no way Luffy's Yonkou material right now.
Luffy was Shichibukai level 3 years ago. Remember how noone thought it was possible for him to beat Crocodile??

I think he should be able to put up a good fight against Big Mom.
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Old 2011-12-27, 23:13   Link #69
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Luffy was Shichibukai level 3 years ago. Remember how noone thought it was possible for him to beat Crocodile??

I think he should be able to put up a good fight against Big Mom.
As you know, shichibukai level varies a lot. Going by Garp's description of the Yonkou, the disparities between them seem to be incredibly small (much like the admirals). It's unanimously agreed on that the yonkou and admirals are top tiers. That being said, I'm sure you'll agree that while Luffy may put up a good fight against Big Mom, he'll undoubtedly lose in the end. And it's not like losing to Big Mom would make him look bad since she's amongst the elites (which amount to very few in the One Piece universe).

Despite Luffy's drastic improvement, he won't have a clean win record in the New World.
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Old 2011-12-27, 23:13   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
There's no way Luffy's Yonkou material right now. While he's improved substantially over the past 2 years, he still has a ways to go before reaching the top. I imagine that Luffy will receive his first crushing defeat in the New World from Big Mom. After all, who better than an emperor to put him in his place?
No that's what Kizaru did to him, and that's precisely WHY luffy spent the past two years training. The whole point of his training was so that he would have the strength to never be put back in that place again. No i really don't think we are gonna get a repeat of that. Big mom won't make it easy, but she will fall... though one thing to keep in mind is that big mom is not necessarily right around the corner. She may be on Luffy's "to beat up" list, but that doesn't mean they won't go through a few islands and some other enemies first before they finally cross paths with Big mom herself

Also i think if Luffy were to suffer another crushing defeat, it would be against someone less evil (someone more like whitebeard or Ao kiji... perhaps his father); y'know someone he can learn or thing or too from... as opposed to the evil fat lady that threatened to destroy people he likes over candy and would probably eat him; she feels too typical evil
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Old 2011-12-27, 23:26   Link #71
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No that's what Kizaru did to him, and that's precisely WHY luffy spent the past two years training. The whole point of his training was so that he would have the strength to never be put back in that place again. No i really don't think we are gonna get a repeat of that. Big mom won't make it easy, but she will fall... though one thing to keep in mind is that big mom is not necessarily right around the corner. She may be on Luffy's "to beat up" list, but that doesn't mean they won't go through a few islands and some other enemies first before they finally cross paths with Big mom herself

Also i think if Luffy were to suffer another crushing defeat, it would be against someone less evil (someone more like whitebeard or Ao kiji... perhaps his father) as opposed to the evil fat lady that threatened to destroy people he likes over candy and would probably eat him.
Luffy developed the gears after his loss against Aokiji, and yet he still got beat plenty of times after that. Of course his 2 years of training under Rayleigh are a whole different ball game, but you get the idea. Luffy is NOT going to be beating top tiers right now. That doesn't make sense from a story telling perspective (we're only a little past half way). If Luffy is capable of beating an emperor right now, then who else could possibly challenge the strawhats to make things interesting? The strawhats had many difficulties and challenges throughout paradise, so with the New World being described as much more dangerous it's only logical that Oda won't deviate from that formula.
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Old 2011-12-28, 00:50   Link #72
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Luffy may end up beating Big Mom, but not before going through x amount of islands and whoever else. Big Mom could easily be put aside for another time while something bigger comes around.
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Old 2011-12-28, 01:14   Link #73
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I actually, the first time I read this chapter, idly wondered if Big mom didn't actually exist, and that giant figure was like some fake mental projection from the three eyed girl, possibly from a devil fruit.

Although this seems pretty unlikely.
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Old 2011-12-28, 01:25   Link #74
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Well of course I read it as soon as it came out, however I have reread it several times since then and read the comments posted on this thread regarding the chapter. If anyone still cares to read it, here is my input about chapter 651.

We start off with Sanji, Luffy and Zoro tracking down Caribou. Now here is where I would like to mention something. Did you notice how in the last chapter, it was Luffy who hinted at Caribou (some creature) residing in the palace and than he sought confirmation from his 2 strongest guys. And they said...
"now that you have mentioned it..."
This may not be a big thing but after additional connection from this chapter where we see it is Luffy who finds Caribou or at least so it is implied with Luffy saying: "Zoro Sanji I found it already"
As I said it may be nothing, but it could very well imply that as far as observation haki goes, Luffy's is at a level that is higher...
There are two things regarding Zoro I really liked in that scene. First, the fact that he isn't all that dumb and he connected the dots by saying Caribou must have hid the treasure in that swamp like body of his. The second thing is a really well done gag, when Luffy asks him which way is the town and after Zoro replies, Sanji just casually adds that they should go the opposite way. That was really subtle and nicely done by Oda.
So we move from there, to the candy factory where we get a new character introduced. To be honest with you guys, I don't really dig Pekoms looks/design it is however interesting to say the least, that he is some kind of a lion but like some have already mentioned, is talking like a human, so, while we can explain why is that with Chopper and while we had some guesses why would that be the case with Bepo (Law's ability) this time around, this makes things complicated. Awakened Zoan has crossed my mind however those we have seen in ID were incredibly dumb and Pekoms, while he has his charms, is looking quite a bit more intelligent than that.
So what is Pekoms? It could be that Oda just let us know there are those kind of "people" in the world as well, or what I think is far more possible, that he has a Zoan DF LION and this is just the hybrid form.
Ok let me move on. Well than comes the entire set up for the gist of this chapter. You just know something will go horrible wrong when you see Fish folk trying to explain how the Candy are missing because of an attack from Hodi's gang and Luffy walks in...
I was waiting for the "bomb" to fall but even so it was damn funny. It is just in a way Oda does this stuff and makes Luffy sound so carefree in the process.
It was also this scene, which let's us know that Big Mom's crew or at least these 2 are well informed about Luffy's deeds. Pekoms says it to himself right away: "So this is the FAMED pirate" which basically means, ok we figured Luffy must be well known now even in the NW, well here we go a confirmation from Oda.
Than the second character gets introduced. This one seems more important, this one's design is also the one I really like. A lot more serious theme to it, more mature.
He seems to be the type, not to rush things, which is well displayed by his words, and attitude (casually drinking that tea) . Now I don't know why, but something about his design screams some type of spider ZOAN, but that is probably not the case, just something I immediately thought about. Also what is that next to his body on page 8 of manga stream. A gun?
Ok, so this guy explains something very important. He not only explains the deal Big Mom has with FI, he basically denies her good intentions explaining that she only does it for the benefits. Which instantly puts her on not so good guys zone. It is also worth noting, that she is not offering any kind of physical or actual protection to FI. Just her Flag and that is it! IMO she basically doesn't care if the entire place gets destroyed as long as her supply of Candy is coming in regulary.
Ok so than we get a bit of a map relocation as we head to the NEW World and again someone has noted it may be important that the brackets which present the entire scene say: " IN A CERTAIN SEA in NW" It may give us some hint on how New World is actually "built" but it can also be just a way Oda chose to word it and it is perfectly normal.
So the first introduction we get with the Yonkou Big Mom is on some Cake like Island where she claims that she ll have some tea party... Now am I the only one who notices a lack of piracy in that entire department, or...?
A serious pirate wouldn't exactly host a Tea party, in all of her excitement towards the sweets she even sings the words "so excited, so excited"... Now that is a bit weird I would say and imo speaks a ton about her character, which may be a lot more immature than the other famous pirates we have seen so far.
To continue her description, people her are discussing the option of her having either the Acid Acid Devil fruit or the Cake Cake DF or something along those lines. Based on, two facts, which are well worth noting!
First one, which is imo a bit less important is her own words saying her stomach acid is overflowing, but what I think speaks more in favor of this comment is like someone mentioned the fact, that may be the reason why she eats all those candy, to calm down her stomach...
Well I personally don't believe this theory and find it too direct as well as not a enough of a serious ability for a Yonkou, together with the fact that the above points are really a stretch of a theory.
The other comment and a guess I have seen floating on this boards, is imo a lot more serious with a lot more serious "proof" to base it on. We can see or at least deduce that she just ate her subordinates or at least some people and if she likes sweets so much...why on earth would she eat human flesh...
There are only 4 possible options
1) the inhabitants of that Cake Cake island are a bit special and candy like
2) Her crew is consisted of some weird DF like people who taste like candy or something...
3) She has someone in her crew to change people with their DF to candy
4) she herself posses such a fruit

And I must say that option 3 and 4 are by far the most logical one and what would further on back the 4th one are these two notions. First of, this DF is incredibly hax, I can't even begin to describe how incredibly hax it is, to be able to turn your opponents into some type of food. It would explain how on earth she became a Yonkou but surely there must be some limit or some special way to go about it, just like with Law or probably Bonney for that matter.
Second notion is, that since we all know Oda likes Dragon Ball and respects Torijama from who he took on many ideas, we all remember the great evil of Majin Buu and his ability to turn people into food...?
Well here we go...

Those are just some thoughts on that, but let us continue. The three eyes girl...there is something, something really strange with her and it is not the three eyes thing. She seems to be sitting on some chair in that cave or who knows where and the chair looks a bit odd as well.
Than we see the dots and her closing the eyes, while Moma is eating her lunch, which would imo suggest disapproval of her actions. Either way she looks really sad in that first shot we get to see her up close. And just as we wonder about the girl, this guy walks in, name Bobbin from the way it looks. He returned together with some nasty looking crew, from what seems to be the burning down of an entire country because they failed to deliver the sweets that were promised to BM. Which by the way nicely rounds up the words which minister of the left has spoken in the last chapter when he said, that this is a monster who would destroy an entire country for sweets and if there was any doubt before this, it is crystal clear now. Big Moma is definitely a MONSTER and if we draw a simple line, on the side where the BAD GUYS of the series lay.
The guy Bobbin whether he is just drawn funny as he swings his head, or it is that he actually has multiple faces or masks I really like his design and speaking of which, here is where Oda really surprised me. Big Moma is really that, Big and to make it all even scarier she is really grotesque looking as well. The only part of her image I got right was the scary part and when we see her screaming on the top of her lungs when Bobbin tells her FI just called in and no Candy for her is in order... she just looks psychotic. I must say this. Everything we have learned about her till this point, together with this image of her we just got may mean we may be facing the most dangerously sick, evil, and twisted enemy yet.
Moving on back to FI where Tamago confirms that if the Sweets will not be delivered the " MONSTERS" of Big Mom's crew will invade and destroy FI. It is interesting how he uses the term, monsters...
And here we get to a point where Luffy really shines. First the entire reaction. What the f. destroyed? We just saved this island dammit.
And here the phone rings and yeah, although we have seen it before, it was still a bit unexpected and definitely hilarious and cool at the same time seeing Luffy picking up that phone and not only that, but to start the conversation like only he knows how.
I am Monkey D. Luffy a man who will become a pirate king. Heh that line nearly killed me. It is interesting how calmly Big Mom responds and even more that she connects his name to Garp and not Dragon ...but Garp, it may have some deeper meaning... to which she adds, the man who stirred up the war. Meaning his actions were not even close to that of an ant or a Yonkou would have surely missed them, but yeah ok we knew that already.
Now the following words and expression from Luffy is nothing short of Epic and I will remember it well.
"There is no more Candy. I ate it all!"
And to say it with that look on his face, that is important. It means that Luffy, as naive as he can often be, has grasped the entire situation and taken it very seriously in fact this is the point we know Luffy will make it clear to BM that he is seriously pissed, that she would go and do one thing he cannot stand above them all, and that is to hurt or threaten his friends and that is just what she indirectly did. However he does show a lot of maturity even at this point, which is something worth noting and consider as his character development. He decides to offer his entire treasure he just looted to compensate for the "losses" and that is more then being generous especially if we know that Luffy is at no fault here.
Than we get dropped an additional info on two things. Firstly how Big Mom operates, when Tamago explains 2 ships of her were sank and truth be told they are hurting a bit on the financial side as well.
Second is naturally Captain Kid being the one to have sunk them
With first piece of info you do wonder, is her crew big? Well I think it must be in order to have multiple ships and perhaps not even knowing of their status...
Second piece of info confirms to us what was already hinted. When we saw all of the SN apart from Law in the NW we saw a lot of different situations. We saw Kid continue with his killing like it does not matter if it is the old or the New World, we saw Apoo, Begge, Bonney, and Urouge getting themselves in quite of a mess and we saw Drake openly confronting a Yonkou and Basil doing alright as well. It may be just different situations but it may also be something a lot more symbolical. It may imply the strength of those crews. And looks like Kid is doing "great" in the NW, still doing things his own way, so far not being forced to bend the will to someone else. And to see 2 of those Super Nova's openly confronting a Yonkou takes a way a bit of what Luffy will do in a second...
After Big Mom refuses his proposal and says he is her target now...
Now this I think is important. Luffy says it is dangerous to let her be in charge of FI like this and he basically states his priorities and we can be sure, there will be no: "lets sail the NW and have adventure" from the get go...not after this. Because he made sure to tell her, it is his priority to take her down and thus protect FI, making it his turf in the process.
What is also important to note here is that Luffy does it and says it only because he believes that is the only way to protect FI. So imo we are not seeing him taking over things like territories from Yonkous or even caring much about it for now. However, if he was about to learn that entire New World is somewhat in some kind of enslaved state and that only way to save them from that is to declaring his turfs... Well than we just might see some more of that declarations which in turn eventually make sure he becomes known as a Yonkou. But let us not jump the gun yet on that one.


This was one of the best if not the best chapters of One Piece for me personally. But most definitely the best in this entire Arc. It revealed to us so much, left pieces for us to try and connect and made sure to bring some really funny and epic moments which were most importantly very well built.
It was to say short: An amazing chapter of One Piece.

I enjoyed it and will probably read it again and again. Sorry for the long post, hopefully I didn't just write it for myself




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Old 2011-12-28, 01:33   Link #75
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holy crap.... ^
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Old 2011-12-28, 03:30   Link #76
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so TL;DR you enjoying this chapter?
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Old 2011-12-28, 12:52   Link #77
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Wow, monster post....


Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Complete mastery of the fruit + haki. Luffy will become pirate king and yet he 'only' has plastic powers. This proves that you don't need an imbahax fruit to get to the very top.

If you have mastery of the fruit, you can turn parts of your body to that animal. I think it is pretty convincing because bees are a matriarchy, and it also explains Big Mom's animalistic tendency to cannibalize her crew.

Uh, I'm not really sure what you're getting at with this post. Yeah, we already knew that mastery of a non-hax DF isn't necessary to rise to the top, but I'm still not sure what that has to do with a bee zoan or whatever (especially since, as someone else pointed out earlier, her body was visible enough to show no signs of her being in a bee form).



And frankly, bees aren't carnivorous insects, anyway. You're probably thinking of wasps and hornets, which ARE carnivores. But even including them, I think Oda would have made a more obvious hint that she's a bee or wasp zoan (like showing a stinger, or maybe show her gulping down honey or something like that). And while those bugs are venomous through their stingers, I'm pretty sure that none of them produce toxic saliva.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Second, after that chat with Big Mamma I personally think things have become personal. Kidd destroyed Big Mamma's ship that was carrying gold, but Luffy just declared war directly to Big Mamma, took responsibility for the candy, and wants to make fisherman Island his turf. That is a bold action to take with a Yonkou. On top of that Zoro and Sanji don't seemed worried at all.

That.... doesn't really mean anything, though. Yeah, Luffy declared war against an emperor, but we also saw him declare war against the WG long before the skip occurred. And notice how that kind of resulted in him and his crew getting smacked around by a bunch of top-class opponents for the following arcs up to the skip. We already know he has a tendency to be reckless, so while it's cool that he's protecting the fish-people from Charlotte's wrath and all, there's still a very real possibility that his actions may force him to bite more than he can chew.



Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Luffy is displaying haki like Shanks, the straw Hat have already defeated two Shichibukai, Luffy would have destroyed Noah's arch if given the chance, and they just got done crushing 100,000 people without effort. Luffy is the only one who has shown off a lot of his abilities. If Zoro and Sanji are truly part of the monster trio then we have only seen a glimps of what the Straw Hats can do. I am just comparing what we know and the time line of other people in the One piece Universe. These two years of training was about closing the power gap.

Actually, the two years of training was just so the crew would be strong enough to survive in the New World. That much was strongly emphasized before the skip, even. It wasn't really about Luffy becoming an even match for the Yonkou/admirals.

And honestly, I wouldn't cite Hody as being the best example of showing off Luffy's growth for several reasons, the main two being that Hody had gotten himself a huge power boost that let him withstand most of Luffy's attacks, and second, they fought in an environment that was disadvantageous for DF users. And as for the pirate army, those guys were just fodder who relied on drugs, anyway (as evidenced by the 50,000 pirates who got knocked out by Luffy's CoC blast). Sure, the officers may have been a bit stronger, but they went down quickly in the end, as well. Simply put, their opponents were just a ragtag group of racist fish-pirates who had no real experience fighting in the outside world. I think we'll get a better gauge of the Straw-Hats' growth when we see them take on a more experienced crew of New World pirates.....



Edit: BTW, I just realized something: Earlier in this arc (around the time Shirley made the prophecy, to be more specific), I had jokingly predicted that Luffy would earn Big Mom's wrath by destroying her candy factory. And considering the current chapter's content.... well, looks like I wasn't so far off the mark now, was I?
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Old 2011-12-28, 14:52   Link #78
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^He might as well destroy it now that he challenged her
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Old 2011-12-28, 16:25   Link #79
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Originally Posted by Rainbowman View Post
Not much happening here but I'll see what I could come up with.



Technically it features the Strawhats with animals that are considered as their counterparts. The title of the colourspread is "Toshio Asakuma vs. One Piece". I wonder what kind of world Toshio Asakuma is? The only members that have animals remaining the same from Oda's descriptions is Luffy with the monkey and Nami with the cat. I was surprised by the rest of the crew on the following:

Zoro- Oda classified him as a shark but there's a tiger in this case.
Usopp- Oda classified him as an armadillo but there's what looks like a chameleon in this case.
Sanji- Oda classified him as a duck but there's a ram in this case.
Robin- Oda classified her as a crane but there's what looks like a peregrine falcon in this case.
Chopper- Oda had no classification for Chopper other than reindeer yet his counterpart in this case is what looks like a red panda.
Franky- Oda classified him as a bull but there's a rhino in this case.
Brook- Oda classified him as a horse but there's a skeletal giraffe in this case which makes me wonder, is the giraffe an equine or a bovine?

It's part of One Piece 15 years celebration. In addition to a 3 month long exhibition there are quite a few commemorative figure sets schedule for release. Toshio Asakuma's animal figures is one of those highly anticipated ones.

I'll post more detail in the merchandise thread.
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Old 2011-12-28, 18:02   Link #80
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Originally Posted by noktown View Post
^He might as well destroy it now that he challenged her
Yea he could but not really much point to that, I mean even if Big Mom aims her wraith at Luffy and Luffy makes FI his, he and Chopper can then eat all the candy they want

On the note above about the animals, saw the figures they are pretty cool.
Gotta admit I prefer the new animals to what was said before but you know I think it would have been funnier if Chopper's "animal" counterpart was a tanuki
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