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Old 2011-12-14, 03:49   Link #81
VVolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by potchip View Post
I really think many dislike Yozora not because of her personality but because their favourite Sena got served most of the time.
Exactly what I've been saying from day 1. Try imagining Rika in Sena's place.

Spoiler for Rika instead of Sena?:


I'm pretty sure Yozora sympathizers would increase dramatically.

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Originally Posted by potchip View Post
Being fleshed out is not necessarily the best thing that can happen to a character. Complacency. With Sena, what additional piece of information have we learnt about her personality wise since say vol 3 of the novel? Is there any extra dimensions to her character or she's already been molded into a particular sterotype?
Well, to be fair, you have to realize that most people only watch the anime (which is still in the 3rd volume). And even those that do read the novels, they most likely have only read up to the middle of the 4th volume, unless they have other sources to read them from.

So I don't really blame people for finding Sena a better and more fleshed out character, because she has been focused on in the first few volumes (and even more in the anime). From then on, however, as potchip has said, she really hasn't changed much from the 3rd volume.

She had a somewhat development in volume 7, on her outlook on whether one should focus more on the future or the past, but that was really it.

It's almost as if there was nothing more to add to her character. Even Rika and Yukimura had development later on. It's really a shame.

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Originally Posted by ImagineThat View Post
Anyway i'm amazed at the level of dislike i'm seeing people have for Yozora from the likes of here, MAL and other sites/blogs.
Oh god yeah...over there, there's this guy regularly going defensive and offended whenever Yozora gets appreciated or Sena not getting the praise she deserves. Just saying it's much better here.
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Last edited by VVolf; 2011-12-14 at 04:03.
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Old 2011-12-14, 06:26   Link #82
mironicus
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So I don't really blame people for finding Sena a better and more fleshed out character, because she has been focused on in the first few volumes (and even more in the anime). From then on, however, as potchip has said, she really hasn't changed much from the 3rd volume.
Isn't it better that way? Sena and Kodaka already achieved a friendship-like status. The story now has to focus more on Yozora and the others. Yozora needs some serious character developement. As a more broken personality, she has much more steps to go to recover from the past and also to win Kodaka's affections. Sena was well introduced and now we have a serious rival for Yozora. The situation is more interesting because she can't rely on the childhood friendship anymore. She must be able to form a new relationship from the ground and to learn to trust other people. Sena has achieved this already with Kodaka.
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Old 2011-12-14, 07:35   Link #83
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Originally Posted by mironicus View Post
Isn't it better that way? Sena and Kodaka already achieved a friendship-like status. The story now has to focus more on Yozora and the others. Yozora needs some serious character developement. As a more broken personality, she has much more steps to go to recover from the past and also to win Kodaka's affections. Sena was well introduced and now we have a serious rival for Yozora. The situation is more interesting because she can't rely on the childhood friendship anymore. She must be able to form a new relationship from the ground and to learn to trust other people. Sena has achieved this already with Kodaka.
In the end , if romance comes into play , someone (several someones , though I think Rika has almost certainly been friendzoned from the start) is going to get friendzoned. It goes without saying.
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Old 2011-12-16, 13:52   Link #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
In the end , if romance comes into play , someone (several someones , though I think Rika has almost certainly been friendzoned from the start) is going to get friendzoned. It goes without saying.
I think that happened somewhat in this last episode ^^;

I'm so happy to see something done about the childhood friend thing though! =D
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Old 2011-12-16, 15:12   Link #85
DXMichael
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Yikes, it's amazing how different someone can look after having some hair cut.

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Old 2011-12-16, 15:23   Link #86
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The boy on the left picture looks way cuter than Yozora.
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Old 2011-12-16, 18:24   Link #87
akane kido
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to me yozora its one of the best character of all, and her new style in anime is amazing, in fact i have to accept that i like the long hair, but now her short hair its cool too...

now i waiting that in the light novel yozora´s character has a little bit more deep history...
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Old 2011-12-25, 02:35   Link #88
Von Himmel
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Well, to be fair, you have to realize that most people only watch the anime (which is still in the 3rd volume). And even those that do read the novels, they most likely have only read up to the middle of the 4th volume, unless they have other sources to read them from.

So I don't really blame people for finding Sena a better and more fleshed out character, because she has been focused on in the first few volumes (and even more in the anime). From then on, however, as potchip has said, she really hasn't changed much from the 3rd volume.

She had a somewhat development in volume 7, on her outlook on whether one should focus more on the future or the past, but that was really it.

It's almost as if there was nothing more to add to her character. Even Rika and Yukimura had development later on. It's really a shame.
I need some confirmation about something if you don't mind...so does it basically means that Yozora will have larger character development than Sena in later volumes, and in the end, will be much more likeable?

I really like Yozora...but the amount of hate towards her really make me sad
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Old 2011-12-25, 08:46   Link #89
VVolf
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Originally Posted by Von Himmel View Post
I need some confirmation about something if you don't mind...so does it basically means that Yozora will have larger character development than Sena in later volumes, and in the end, will be much more likeable?

I really like Yozora...but the amount of hate towards her really make me sad
Hm, hard to explain it without spoiling anything, but I'll say this. I wouldn't exactly call it "development" for Yozora, but we do get to see various sides of her (the inner workings of her mind on various things) from the fourth volume onwards.

The most I can say is that she becomes more fleshed out, yet even after seven volumes, you still would wonder just what else she is hiding beneath her mask. It's as if the more she reveals her character, the more confused I'd get about her, if that makes sense.

As to what I think you're more concerned about (with Yozora being more likeable or not), I really can't say. She does shows more of her...cuter or dere side, she becomes a little more feminine if you will. We do get to know her character better that would make us understand why she is the way she is (and maybe, can come to sympathize with her). Now this is why I can't say she becomes more "likeable" or not, since it's really how much the reader is willing to look into her character with an open mind (not just about seeing past her exterior and not be prejudiced with "first impressions", but also to view her character as a whole, not just on her treatment of Sena or Maria).

Other characters get their development from the fourth volume as well, where, sadly, although she still has her ample screen time, Sena's character remains almost stagnant. There is a somewhat important story development that shows a certain side of Sena, but other than that, her character doesn't change much. Not saying that Yozora or any other character makes a 180 personality turn, I'm just saying that they get more depth while on the other hand, there's nothing really to add to Sena's character than what we already know from the first three volumes.

Anyway, this is what I think. If you really want an in-depth look at Yozora's character and her development, I suggest you have a chat with potchip. His perception of Yozora are highly insightful.
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Old 2011-12-25, 16:12   Link #90
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If viewers already hate Yozora, I doubt any amount of story expansion could change that opinion.

Bear in mind that she was never designed to be unlikable. Yozora's quirks define and sell the character, and fans love her because of them (not in spite of them). It would be strange if the author drastically altered her personality or the dynamics between characters.

Quote:
Anyway i'm amazed at the level of dislike i'm seeing people have for Yozora from the likes of here, MAL and other sites/blogs.
Can't be helped. I get the impression that some see her as the jerk who purposely and repeatedly overseasons their filet mignon while passing by the grill.
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Old 2011-12-26, 03:57   Link #91
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i think a lot of the hate for yozora comes from the anime, where sena's flaws were toned down, making yozora see more of a bitch tham her novel counterpart.
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Old 2011-12-26, 04:01   Link #92
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I expect the Yozora bashing to at least diminish a little, now that the haters lost the "bullying kids is horrible and Yozora should die for that" card. Since Maria was the first to attack a submissive and socially awkward Yozora to the point of snapping.

My love for Yozora doubled since the last episode.
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Old 2011-12-26, 04:15   Link #93
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by zeniselv View Post
i think a lot of the hate for yozora comes from the anime, where sena's flaws were toned down, making yozora see more of a bitch tham her novel counterpart.
I don't know, if they really want to destroy Yozora's image even more they would have added the cell phone novel skit which I found out that without background knowledge of the subject, it's very easy to misinterpret the reasoning behind her actions.

Not to mention that story-go-round skit...
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Old 2011-12-26, 04:44   Link #94
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Now this is why I can't say she becomes more "likeable" or not, since it's really how much the reader is willing to look into her character with an open mind (not just about seeing past her exterior and not be prejudiced with "first impressions", but also to view her character as a whole, not just on her treatment of Sena or Maria).
There are two types of readers: The first group who spends most of the time to micro-analyze every little detail of a character and love to dig into meta-analyses or psychology and can write wall of texts about it. And the second group of reader who rate the character based on his/her action and reaction, which is normally visible during the episode. That means without putting too much thoughts into everything and simply let the episode effect them as it runs. So logically when it comes to this kind of discussions, the two groups will clash, followed by endless dialogues like "I don't like her because she did A, B, C" and the psychologist response like "Wrong! If you look deeper into this, you can see the subtle hint/forshadowing of X, Y, Z and based on *insert meta-analysis* it was clearly not so" People like me watched most of the show simply for entertainment and without the urge to dwell into deeper reasons of character's action and if Yozora was mean/over-the-top or whatever I don't have to like it regardless of a deeply hidden reason. On the other side, if she was cute, adorable or otherwise "likeable" I give credits to those parts as well. To put it very simple: I bash or praise what I can see is happening and not what can be speculated or analyzed. You need the affinity for it in order to actually locate and even recognize the meta-aspects as an meta-aspect.
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Old 2011-12-26, 06:10   Link #95
mironicus
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Yozora fans should be grateful that some things from the LN were skipped in the Anime - like the relay novel - the Anime is heavily censored anyway. And I like Kodaka for not being fooled easily by just sweet looks.
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Old 2011-12-26, 11:34   Link #96
blakstealth
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Originally Posted by Isekaijin View Post

My love for Yozora doubled since the last episode.
Pretty much. :3
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Old 2011-12-27, 02:41   Link #97
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This picture captures the elegance of Yozora perfectly.

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Old 2011-12-27, 05:39   Link #98
ImagineThat
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Originally Posted by mironicus View Post
Yozora fans should be grateful that some things from the LN were skipped in the Anime - like the relay novel - the Anime is heavily censored anyway. And I like Kodaka for not being fooled easily by just sweet looks.
I dont know about grateful but i agree that if there ever was point where i felt what she did reflected very poorly on her was during the relay novel.

Still i would have liked to have seen it animated. Yukimura's bit was absolutley hilarious, she really stole that chapter. As you said though, with the censorship it would have likely decreased the shock value anyway.
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Old 2011-12-27, 21:04   Link #99
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Originally Posted by Mahou View Post
There are two types of readers: The first group who spends most of the time to micro-analyze every little detail of a character and love to dig into meta-analyses or psychology and can write wall of texts about it. And the second group of reader who rate the character based on his/her action and reaction, which is normally visible during the episode. That means without putting too much thoughts into everything and simply let the episode effect them as it runs. So logically when it comes to this kind of discussions, the two groups will clash, followed by endless dialogues like "I don't like her because she did A, B, C" and the psychologist response like "Wrong! If you look deeper into this, you can see the subtle hint/forshadowing of X, Y, Z and based on *insert meta-analysis* it was clearly not so" People like me watched most of the show simply for entertainment and without the urge to dwell into deeper reasons of character's action and if Yozora was mean/over-the-top or whatever I don't have to like it regardless of a deeply hidden reason. On the other side, if she was cute, adorable or otherwise "likeable" I give credits to those parts as well. To put it very simple: I bash or praise what I can see is happening and not what can be speculated or analyzed. You need the affinity for it in order to actually locate and even recognize the meta-aspects as an meta-aspect.
Superior post is superior

I find that I tend to take the characters as they are when it comes to series that I start watching based on anime. Because of that, I tend to be more sympathetic towards the likeable characters in those series and absolutely dislike the so-called unlikeable ones. The opposite is true for series that I start-off reading the light novels.
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Old 2011-12-28, 10:54   Link #100
mironicus
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Where does this picture come from? Yozora just killed Sena?
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