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Old 2011-12-28, 16:30   Link #1
Tong
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About the Signature Request thread

I'll be brief.

I feel that most users aren't satisfied with their given signatures. Most likely because he didnt like that artist's style or it was just bad in their eyes.

But sure, they wouldnt say something like that... they can't say it's bad and want a sign from someone else. Imagine, someone who worked really hard and put their whole soul and heart into that sign, just to be taken by a complete stranger.
However, tastes are tastes, you never know if someone is going to like your stuff. If said stranger said "Sorry, I don't like your sign/style".
Damn, that sweetheart who made the sign would feel like s***, but that's not it, the rest of the community, like a hivemind, would look down the "poor" requester, who just wanted something different.

Sure, never saw it happening but, most likely that would be the outcome. That's how the requester feels, and then to avoid all this drama, and work, he simply... does nothing. That's right, if they don't like it they wont put that fancy retangle in that limited space below their posts... Another common strategy is to ask for another signature, hoping that "odd styled artist" won't appear and fulfill his deepest wishes again.

My point: The thread is failing on that purpose. Sometimes, but happens and it shouldn't. People should get away from that thread after the long-awaited delivery, satisfied.

My proposal: That thread should be only used for simple requests, like image cropping, name and border putting... simple stuff.
What about the customized signatures? The users and Graphic Artists , if willing, should do these if asked directly in their respective galleries. The main post should be updated with the names of anyone who's willing to collaborate.

I think that's all
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Old 2011-12-28, 17:46   Link #2
Rennir
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In my opinion, this is a non-issue. The people who ask for signatures in the signature request don't really have a particular standard in mind and are happy with whatever they get. Would they prefer one signature over the other if two people chose to fulfill the request? Sure. But I think everyone who posts in the Signature request thread knows that anyone can fulfill if their request, and it'd be impolite to ask someone else to fulfill it; and so they really don't mind.

hose that like a particular artist's work or a specific standard already do ask specific artists either in their threads or via PMs (god knows how many Patchy's gotten ). Personally, if I ever need something rendered or a sig or gif made, I ask people directly instead of using the request threads because I do have specific standards. So I don't think it's failing it's purpose; I think you're wrong about your assessment that a lot of people aren't satisfied with what they get.
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Old 2011-12-28, 18:07   Link #3
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong View Post
I feel that most users aren't satisfied with their given signatures. Most likely because he didnt like that artist's style or it was just bad in their eyes.
Beggars can't be choosers. I have yet to see an artist refuse to tweak a signature if the requester politely asks, but I have seen plenty of requests with very vague, or nonexistent, criteria. If you aren't specific, you can't complain when someone fills your request in an undesired way.

If someone isn't happy with a request done from someone volunteering their time, they can directly contact a person who uses the style they like, or they can use the tutorial thread and learn how to do it themselves.

There are options, if people could be bothered to stop feeling entitled and put a little more effort into getting what they want....or do we need to rehash the complaints about people requesting signatures they'll never use on the forums?
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Old 2011-12-28, 22:02   Link #4
Reverzer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong View Post
I'll be brief.

I feel that most users aren't satisfied with their given signatures. Most likely because he didnt like that artist's style or it was just bad in their eyes.
indeed this is smelly. that's why i'm trying and practicing different styles. sometimes i asked how they made this, that and etc. granting requests is learning. if they don't like the work, just accept it. good thing no one here or i haven't encountered a person who have the nerve to insult someone's works!
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Old 2011-12-29, 14:43   Link #5
relentlessflame
 
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I think the burden falls on the person fulfilling the request. If you're going to take on a random signature request, especially one with poorly-defined criteria, you have to accept that your efforts may be for naught. If you want to increase your chances of a successful collaboration (between the requester and the volunteer), you need to establish a dialog. For example, have your portfolio available/accessible, and say "I'm willing to do your request, but I want you to review my other work first to make sure my style is what you're looking for". And then you could do like we do in the industry and offer proofs/drafts for review/approval by the "client" before you invest a whole lot of time. Just because you're volunteering your time doesn't mean your time isn't valuable, so it behooves the person doing the work to make sure the time invested will be worthwhile.

All that being said, I think the artists would be better off changing their perspective. Rather than worry about whether the work will be used and whether the person will like it (etc. etc.), I think it makes more sense to see it as a personal challenge to see what you can put together based on various criteria. Use it as an opportunity to improve your skills, experiment with new styles, and increase your portfolio. Obviously, if people like it and use it, so much the better, but if that's a requirement to finding fulfillment in the work, then I think you're probably just going to be disappointed.

I don't think we should be worried if people making requests leave as "satisfied customers" because, guess what: I don't guarantee satisfaction unless you pay me to guarantee it. Indeed, as Solace said, beggars can't be choosers. The Signature Request thread is just to give artists a chance to take on tasks if they're interested in doing it. We offer no guarantees.
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Old 2011-12-29, 22:25   Link #6
Tong
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Hmm
The portfolio idea is great and I had something like that in mind too. It should be implemented on the OP.

Very well, I believe the reason of why they aren't asking for a specific artist is because they think it's not allowed, or better, dont want to "bother".
Besides, some rules are not being followed by the requesters. What I suggest is pretty simple and may make both parties happy.

-Update the OP with the necessary rules and Artists/contributors. The requests should be made in their respective threads. Encourage this.
-Clean up or make a new thread for Signature Requests, personal/specific signature requests should be made here. The old thread would still exist of course, as General Image Editting which would still serve for simple and quick requests.

That's what I have in mind.
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Old 2011-12-30, 02:52   Link #7
relentlessflame
 
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I don't think the proposal of having people make requests to specific artists should be encouraged. If people want to make specific requests, there is always PM/VM, but I don't think we should encourage random posters to spam talented artists with personal requests for volunteer work. I think the purpose of the Signature Request thread is to gather general requests so that artists with the time/interest can tackle them. The items I proposed were things the artist could do on their own if they were concerned about fulfilling a given request, but would not represent procedural changes on the whole.

So, all in all, I am not really convinced the proposed changes would bring about a desirable outcome.
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Old 2011-12-30, 03:36   Link #8
Daniel E.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong
Very well, I believe the reason of why they aren't asking for a specific artist is because they think it's not allowed, or better, dont want to "bother".
Several sig makers have expressed in the past (several times over) that they do not wish to see requests posted in their personal threads, and even if they do fill requests from time to time, they don't do it for just any member that happens to ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
I don't think the proposal of having people make requests to specific artists should be encouraged.
I don't like the idea either. How active a sig maker could be varies tremendously and we all now how impatient some requesters can be. If they don't get their requests done "fast enough", they could easily start spamming the same request across several threads, all because the artist in question decided to take a week or two off from the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
the purpose of the Signature Request thread is to gather general requests so that artists with the time/interest can tackle them.
Amen to this.

Whoever has the time, whenever they feel like doing it.
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Old 2011-12-30, 09:44   Link #9
Fahd
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Question

Surely the correct way to tackle this is for Sig makers to offer their services (with a link go their past work) when they see a request they like. Then the requester can accept/reject the offer as necessary. That way the Sig maker hasn't wasted their time making a Sig the requester doesn't like, and the requester doesn't feel as though they have to use a Sig they don't like just to be polite.

Sig makers could discuss the work with the requester via visitor messages and that way when a requester gets an offer they can see how well the Sig maker communicates with the requester.
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Old 2011-12-30, 11:00   Link #10
Tong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahd View Post
Surely the correct way to tackle this is for Sig makers to offer their services (with a link go their past work). Then the requester can accept/reject the offer as necessary. That way the Sig maker hasn't wasted their time making a Sig the requester doesn't like, and the requester doesn't feel as though they have to use a Sig they don't like just to be polite.
That's what I want to do, but it's the other way round. Requester should seek the Artists, not the opposite

I agree relentless and Daniel... Our precious artists shouldn't waste their time on lurkers and randoms. That's why ,even though they are willing to help in first place, they can make rules (e.g post/join date restriction) in their respective topics to avoid unnecessary and "ungrateful" work.
The artists have the freedom to temporaily (or forever) remove their names from the Request Thread if they wish.

Besides, I'm sure every Graphic Designer likes to make signatures to practice and improve.
Imo, this would benefit both sides, Requesters gets satisfied with the chosen Signature and Designers satisfied for helping them and improving themselves.
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Old 2011-12-30, 16:21   Link #11
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong View Post
That's what I want to do, but it's the other way round. Requester should seek the Artists, not the opposite
No, I'm afraid I don't agree. The requester should not be encouraged to seek the artist; the artist should reach out to the requester if they're interested, as was proposed by Fahd. The artist has to be the one initiating the transaction since they're agreeing to take on the job. That fits the "Help Wanted" model of the thread. People are always welcome to approach someone directly with a request if they really want to, but I don't think we should put together a way to systematize or encourage this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong View Post
Our precious artists shouldn't waste their time on lurkers and randoms. That's why ,even though they are willing to help in first place, they can make rules (e.g post/join date restriction) in their respective topics to avoid unnecessary and "ungrateful" work.
The artists have the freedom to temporaily (or forever) remove their names from the Request Thread if they wish.
I'm afraid that you haven't really thought this through; this is a marked step back. Right now, we have a common platform that unites people with requests with those willing and able to fulfil those requests at that time. It allows the artist to choose which projects they're willing to tackle, and protects the artist from being pestered by unwanted personal requests. What you're proposing removes the benefits of federation, and goes back to a sort of "everyone fend for themselves" model, where we essentially provide some sort of "Address Book" for people that can be spammed. You might think in your head "it allows people to investigate an artist's style to make a request of the right person and so increases the chance of success/satisfaction", but that's only the best-case scenario. If a requester is desperate, they can just spam a whole bunch of artists at once, and there's no centralized way of seeing who all has been asked and who all is taking on what request, which could result in duplicate work (and then the requester getting to choose the one they like best and ignore all the rest). Then, to "solve" that problem, you'd need to go back to a common listing of all requests with a clear indication of who's taking on which request. You may say "artists can maintain their own policies", but they don't have the tools to manage forum threads; if someone is spamming them or violating their policies, they have to contact the mods to have us intervene in what is now a personal dispute. And you also say "people can remove their name at any time", but it's not that simple. Eventually, people won't even check the "Address Book"; they'll just learn that so-and-so is a good person to ask, and they won't read whatever policies or protocols the artist decides at that time (will there be any standards?). How does the person really just "unsubscribe" from the spam? How do they prevent a backlog from forming while they're away? You're setting up an environment where random people are encouraged to impose on specific volunteers for personal work, and there are very few cases where this can end well. This can already be done anyway via PM or VM, but I don't think we should set-up any sort of system where we encourage this. If nothing else, it's inefficient by design, and that doesn't seem very logical.

So, sorry but... request denied. If you or someone else has a different request or idea that warrants re-opening this thread, you are welcome to let me know (I'm not saying the current system is perfect), but I'm quite sure that the best solution to this particular problem is for the artists to engage in conversation with the requester before starting the work, not to encourage the requester to pester individual artists. In the meantime, if you really want to be directly propositioned with requests, you are welcome to put some sort of mention to that effect in your signature... but that's something you'd be doing on your own.
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