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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 122 Rating
Perfect 10 3 6.38%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 8 17.02%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 21.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 23.40%
6 out of 10 : Average 9 19.15%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 6.38%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 4.26%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 2.13%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-01-01, 09:18   Link #221
irvinethearcher
Angriest Angel
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
The way i remember it was that cassandra was cut by small fry because she simply ignored them as if they weren't there at all totally focussing on rosemary. But i have to reread the scene, i think.
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Old 2012-01-01, 09:40   Link #222
Gooral
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Roxanne not Rosemary. And you're missing my point. Cassandra let them cut her because she was cutting them, that was her reasoning. But the fact she couldn't simply parry or dodge their attacks shows she was a disappointing #1. Miria for example could easily do that with a bunch of Claymores.
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Old 2012-01-01, 09:48   Link #223
Korinov
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The whole "Cassandra's revenge" scene makes no sense.
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Old 2012-01-01, 09:58   Link #224
SpiritOfGray
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To me it showed her resolve. Her intent. She wanted to die and to take Roxanne with her. She didn't feel right hurting her comrades, it was against her nature. So she merely handled them like a swarm of bees while focusing on the Queen (Roxanne). I feel it was her own nature that killed her. And that hilt of the sword technique wasn't necessarily weak. Just because Clare has the technique of Teresa doesn't mean she was on Teresa's level from the start. From my point of view, it looked like that hilt technique was made specifically for Cassandra anyway. Adding Roxanne's rise in power, it made complete sense to use it on her. It required little effort to use, and was a downward motion.
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Old 2012-01-01, 10:02   Link #225
irvinethearcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Roxanne not Rosemary. And you're missing my point. Cassandra let them cut her because she was cutting them, that was her reasoning. But the fact she couldn't simply parry or dodge their attacks shows she was a disappointing #1. Miria for example could easily do that with a bunch of Claymores.
Quote:
Cassandra: "I was not in the least concened about evading my comrades attacks,
in return for cutting my comrades i was prepared to be cut too."
So i understand it the way that she could have easily blocked or evaded the attacks but she simply didn't mind at all.

I agree with SpiritOfGray...
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Old 2012-01-01, 10:09   Link #226
Gooral
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@SpiritOfGray
Please follow the links I've provided 2 posts earlier and you'll see that either that attack was weak or this scene didn't make sense as Korinov has written.

@irvinethearcher
You still do not understand. "In return for cutting my comrades, I was prepared to be cut too." She was prepared to be cut because she was cutting herself. But she could have avoided all that by not cutting any of them but instead dodging and parrying their attacks. After all Cassandra was her only target. Since she didn't do that it means she was too weak to go through them without injuring them. She wasn't even of Miria class. We also saw she had problems with dodging only three Claymores' attacks without using her Dust Eater technique hence she was considered only as strong as #5 without that technique.

If Cassandra could dodge them but didn't and at the same time Roxanne was her only target then it really doesn't make sense.
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Old 2012-01-01, 10:14   Link #227
irvinethearcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
@SpiritOfGray
Please follow the links I've provided 2 posts earlier and you'll see that either that attack was weak or this scene didn't make sense as Korinov has written.

@irvinethearcher
You still do not understand. "In return for cutting my comrades, I was prepared to be cut too." She was prepared to be cut because she was cutting herself. But she could have avoided all that by not cutting any of them but instead dodging and parrying their attacks. After all Cassandra was her only target. Since she didn't do that it means she was too weak to go through them without injuring them. She wasn't even of Miria class. We also saw she had problems with dodging only three Claymores' attacks without using her Dust Eater technique hence she was consider as strong as #5 without that technique.
"She was prepared to be cut because she was cutting herself."
I don't understand but i will take a look into the link you have provided...
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Old 2012-01-01, 10:33   Link #228
Korinov
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I say the scene makes no sense because first we see Roxanne standing just before Cassandra, then Cassandra starts to "cut her way through her comrades"... just to reach a Roxanne that seems to have barely moved? I mean, we're talking about a #1 Claymore here, she really wasn't fast enough to reach Roxanne before all the other warriors intervened?
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Old 2012-01-01, 10:48   Link #229
MalakTawus
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@Gooral

Ehm,i said very CLEARLY just a few posts before that i'm certain that Roxy is definitely stronger than what it seems at the moment and that probably (VERY probably she has yet to show her "secrets").
Sorry Gooral,but from your intervention is clear that you just jumped in the middle of a discussion without looking at the whole,infact you COMPLETELY missed my point.

little_angel was saying that Cassy awakened because she knew that she couldn't defeat Roxy in her normal form,and he also said that he could prove that.
Instead i said that not only that theory can't be proved at all,but it's also wrong 'cause it's pretty clear that Cassy awakened as soon as she remembered Cassy not because she wasn't confident in killing her but simply because her was REALY REALY mad and her rage triggered her awakening. Denying that rage was the trigger to make Cassy awaken imo is really absurd,but if you also agree with little_angel feel free to do so.

Quote:
Cassandra was defeated by the weakest technique there is so the handicap (Cassy being cut) was irrelevant since both of them had it
Sorry Gooral,but this is beyond stupid.Even if both of them had an "handicap" only a blind person doesn't understand that Cassy's handicap was IMMENSELY greater (before reaching Roxy she lost one arm,one leg,one eye and was cut several times.....and you want to compare this to Roxy's "handicap"???Don't make me laugh,please....).
When she reached Roxy she was already done for,even a simply good single digit would have been able to kill her at that point,that doesn't prove AT ALL Roxy's strenght,lol.
Also the technique used by Roxy can't even be considered n handicap since it was PERFECT for that particular situation.

Quote:
Also Cassy was too weak to just storm through small fries without injury and attack Roxanne, contrary to Miria for example. Her technique didn't even allow her to parry attacks or dodge them and she was one-shotted by Roxy using only a hilt of a sword.
Yeah right,the only problem in what you say is that Cassy says VERY CLEARLY that she didn't want herself to avoid to be cut by her comrades,so you can't use it to prove anything about her ability.She let herself be cut on purpose to pay for her "sin" (well,that's what she says now that she remembers the scene,but the truth is probably what she said before that,she simply didn't care at all to be cutted,she was already "gone berserk").Try again.

With this i'm not saying that Cassy is surely stronger than Roxy,but sure as hell that doesn't mean that Roxy is the stronger one.......and if there is an hint (just an hint) in what happened there is that Roxy didn't kill Cassy like her past friends, so MAYBE she wasn't confident at all to defeat Cassy in a fair fight one on one.
Even with her immense pride,it's still a fact that for some reason she didn't dare to fight Cassy alone,and that's very strange for someone that wants to prove that she's the strongest.

Quote:
You still do not understand. "In return for cutting my comrades, I was prepared to be cut too." She was prepared to be cut because she was cutting herself. But she could have avoided all that by not cutting any of them but instead dodging and parrying their attacks. After all Cassandra was her only target. Since she didn't do that it means she was too weak to go through them without injuring them. She wasn't even of Miria class. We also saw she had problems with dodging only three Claymores' attacks without using her Dust Eater technique hence she was considered only as strong as #5 without that technique.

If Cassandra could dodge them but didn't and at the same time Roxanne was her only target then it really doesn't make sense.
Your theory is completely destroyed by what Cassy says VERY CLEARLY: "I lost myself".
It's not difficult to understand that in that moment Cassy was acting completely driven by rage,so your reasoning is weak as hell.
She didn't avoid simply because she didn't care at all,simple as that. She cut everything in front of her and was ready to be cutted in return (it's hinted that inconsciously that was something like paying for her sin).

And also,if we want to be fair,do you think that Miria or Histy would be able to win easily against a n.3, a n.5 and a n.9 WITHOUT USING their special techniques??? I don't think so.

Only monsters like Teresa or Prissy can fight "normally" and destroy anything in front of them like it's nothing,all the other warriors that we have seen beside those two (and Raph) base their strenght on their techniques,and those techniques is what mainly makes the difference between single digits.

Last edited by MalakTawus; 2012-01-01 at 11:09.
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Old 2012-01-01, 11:11   Link #230
haegar
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Quote:
"In return for cutting my comrades, I was prepared to be cut too."
this line clearly can be interpreted in BOTH ways, so I am a bit confused by people insisting on other people reading it "wrong".

my 5 cents are not to read it in terms of powerlevels but resolve, too: since Yagi took such time to develop Cassy's rather unique character I feel it makes less sense to read it in terms of her abilities or lack thereof but rather as relating to her weird character and relationship to her fellow warriors. Others have already explained how they read the psychological motivation for her action so I won't repeat that. She let them cut her willingly thus it is implied she could have evaded.

But as I said you might as well read powerlevel hints into little lines like this and take out of it she couldn't dodge cause she's that bad. But I feel such is highly unlikely for a #1, no matter if strong or weak #1. #1 will always be high enough above the other single digits to dodge multiple attacks for some time, at least in my book.
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Last edited by haegar; 2012-01-01 at 11:14. Reason: spelling
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Old 2012-01-01, 11:36   Link #231
SpiritOfGray
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
@SpiritOfGray
Please follow the links I've provided 2 posts earlier and you'll see that either that attack was weak or this scene didn't make sense as Korinov has written.
Well, after reading most of that, and re-reading some chapters, I think this may have been a pointless thing for me to blindly jump into lol. There are quite a few differing points, and it has been going on for a while with no sign of opinions changing. But yes, long story short, I accept your points Gooral.

I clearly see how Cassandra can be seen as weak, or not good enough to live up to being one of the best #1s. But part of me still feels Yagi did not intend for that to happen. I mean, the first thing we know about Cassandra is that it took HOURS to finally kill her. That scene easily lasted under a minute though. I would say that maybe she was still alive after what we were shown, while being beaten for hours by her fellow Claymore...but didn't Roxanne say she gave the finishing blow? Another thing that keeps me from fully believing that she wasn't good enough is how Yagi is portraying her awakened form. This form feels like a distorted version of how she felt at the time of her death. She is continuously saying how worthless Roxanne is, and clearly does not fear her at all. Now, if we look back at her death and assume that her rage made her feel similar, truly believing that Roxanne would pay and without a care of anyone being stronger, then we know she doesn't see Roxanne as better than her. I'd also assume that the thought of her comrades taking her down wasn't even in her mind due to this arrogance(for lack of a better word).

Back to the "it took hours to kill her" point. I think this could be emphasizing her rage. Sure, it's not realistic, but the scene definitely is. Think about other anime or manga when the hero gets mad. What happens? They go berserk and own the villain. Think of Yu Yu Hakusho, Naruto, etc. Now what happens when Cassandra goes berserk? She ends up taking more damage then playing it smart. As a martial artist, I know this feeling well, it's real. You may be able to ignore the damage and fear of it if you're so focused on damaging the opponent, but it's still a risky tactic. Not caring for her own life + a full unit of Claymore going after her was a disaster waiting to happen.

Of course, if that were an angry Miria, due to her technique she may have actually been able to fight Roxanne. So there is really no saying that Cassandra is really as strong as she was initially hinted at, or if she just stood out due to her quarrel with Roxy. I've thought from the beginning that even if the weakest Claymore had some type of earthquake technique it would stop Cassandra in her tracks from what we've been shown.
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Old 2012-01-01, 11:43   Link #232
MalakTawus
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@haeger

It's not true that the two interpretations are valid in the same way,especially since we have seen how good Cassy is at dodging while fighting against a n.3 a n.5 and a n.9 (with a tracking technique btw,so particularly difficult to avoid!!!).
As soon as Cassy started using her special technique she could dodge those 3 like it was child's play......not to mention that, even if she looked in trouble, it's still a fact that even before using her technique she wasn't scratched even once by their attacks......

So no,the two interpretations don't have the same validity,not at all.
It's clear that Cassy is EXTREMELY good at dodging attacks,and since when she attacked Roxy she was using her special technique (so her dodging ability should have been even greater than usual) it's pretty impossible to deny that when she says that she didn't care to be cut, it had NOTHING to do about her inability to dodge,she simply didn't care to dodge in the first place.

Last edited by MalakTawus; 2012-01-01 at 12:04.
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Old 2012-01-01, 12:23   Link #233
SpiritOfGray
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Even in the beginning she wasn't doing completely bad fighting those 3. She was blocking all of them at once. Not bad for an "average #5." I was initially disappointed by her technique, and she was my least favorite of the 3. But when I realized it was both offensive and defensive at the same time, and the fact that I liked her personality most, she quickly became one of my favorite Claymores.

I forgot to mention before, that we all agree that Hysteria is strong because of her fight against Miria. No one is questioning her death which is very similar to Cassandra. A large group of Claymore were sent to kill her. Many of them died, and eventually she was killed even though she was a number 1 going past her limits. So that is a #1+ level Claymore being killed by a group over time, WHILE she was really trying to kill her attackers. That's the one difference between her death and Cassandra's.

I'm starting to wonder if we will see more of Roxanne's back story soon, since the first thing that was said about her was she gave the organization a lot of trouble. She was the only one emphasized at being dangerous in chapter 110 basically. I think we haven't seen the whole story on her.
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Old 2012-01-01, 13:57   Link #234
irvinethearcher
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I assume that roxanne must have been nr1 material from the start. It is impossible
that a number 35 claymore is able to become number one even if she learns every technique in the world. The lack of speed, strength, endurance and YOKI can not be compensated.
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Old 2012-01-01, 15:42   Link #235
clarakiss~
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>_>

<_<

no raki or clare.. boo~
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Old 2012-01-01, 19:39   Link #236
Awakened
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Casandra wanted to die to be with her friend, don't forget that part.
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Old 2012-01-01, 20:34   Link #237
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
Casandra wanted to die to be with her friend, don't forget that part.
Correction, first, she wanted to avenge the death of her friend.

After being resurrected and later remembering back, she wanted to stay dead to continue to being with her friend.
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Old 2012-01-01, 21:09   Link #238
Awakened
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Correction, first, she wanted to avenge the death of her friend.

After being resurrected and later remembering back, she wanted to stay dead to continue to being with her friend.
chap 119 page 28. "all I wanted to do is stay with my friend forever."

She was prepared to die from the beginning.
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Old 2012-01-02, 01:02   Link #239
MisterJB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awakened View Post
Casandra wanted to die to be with her friend, don't forget that part.
After killing Roxanne, I'm pretty sure the other claymores would have torn her apart. She didn't need to provoke them by dismembering them.

Gooral has a point. Still, I feel it is a possibility that Cassandra quite simply went into a blind rage which prevented her from acting rationally and just dodge or parry whatever the other Claymores threw at her.
Of course, Claymores who go into a blind fury tend to Awaken which was not the case and, despite being so angry, she was still accurate enough to merely wound the attacking Claymores.
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Old 2012-01-02, 03:35   Link #240
Awakened
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJB View Post
After killing Roxanne, I'm pretty sure the other claymores would have torn her apart. She didn't need to provoke them by dismembering them.

Gooral has a point. Still, I feel it is a possibility that Cassandra quite simply went into a blind rage which prevented her from acting rationally and just dodge or parry whatever the other Claymores threw at her.
Of course, Claymores who go into a blind fury tend to Awaken which was not the case and, despite being so angry, she was still accurate enough to merely wound the attacking Claymores.
I don't think she was to weak. Her skills don't allow her to KO her opponents. She cuts off legs and arms.

If she wanted to live, she could just have dismembered them one by one. She kept moving froward with no regards for her life.
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