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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier: Sayonara no Tsubasa Movie Rating
Perfect 10 40 42.11%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 33 34.74%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 12 12.63%
7 out of 10 : Good 5 5.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 3.16%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 2 2.11%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-01-14, 19:36   Link #3641
darkplataform
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@LMK:
You could have avoided a headache writing that stuff, a future useless fight here, and possibly a public embarrassment by just asking a simple question to karice: "Sources?", but nvm, keep at it!
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Old 2012-01-14, 20:20   Link #3642
LoveMeKags
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkplataform View Post
@LMK:
You could have avoided a headache writing that stuff, a future useless fight here, and possibly a public embarrassment by just asking a simple question to karice: "Sources?", but nvm, keep at it!
The simple fact is, Yoshino, in the credits, is named the script writer and director. As he was in the series. So I have no faith in Yoshino going for any other character except Sheryl. And it was proven by many sources that Yoshino is a Sheryl fan. So I don't count the movies as fair win when there was way too much Sheryl, and especially not enough footage to show where Alto would fall for Ranka, whereas they went out of their way (or Yoshino did) to make Alto and Sheryl seem like soulmates.

Many reviewers say the same thing even when they are Sheryl fans. The simple fact that they get the Romeo and Juliet ending, even Sleeping Beauty a bit makes it ridiculous; because those are so cliche.
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Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-01-16 at 02:44.
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Old 2012-01-14, 21:31   Link #3643
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Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
The simple fact is, Yoshino, in the credits, is named the script writer and director.
That's wrong. So no, it's not a fact.
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Old 2012-01-14, 22:37   Link #3644
LoveMeKags
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But again, in the 2nd movie credits, Yoshino is a script writer and director. So I find the movie to be meh on the love triangle's ending, considering it has been proven countless times that he favored Sheryl.

Yoshino has kinda lost a fan.
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Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-01-16 at 02:45. Reason: Pointless bit removed.
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Old 2012-01-14, 22:53   Link #3645
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
But again, in the 2nd movie credits, Yoshino is a script writer and director. So I find the movie to be meh on the love triangle's ending, considering it has been proven countless times that he favored Sheryl.
Again, you are still wrong!

http://www.allcinema.net/prog/show_c.php?num_c=337955

http://www.kinejun.jp/cinema/id/41748

Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Yoshino has kinda lost a fan.
Your sole argument for him being a bad writer or bad storyteller rests on the fact that Ranka had lost the triangle. Thats it. If this is the best you can come up with in criticizing Yoshino's works, then I highly doubt he, and the rest of us, will be missing much losing you as a fan.

- Tak
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Last edited by Daniel E.; 2012-01-16 at 02:46. Reason: Pointless bit removed
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Old 2012-01-15, 00:49   Link #3646
karice67
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WTH?

I answer a question somebody had, go to work for a few hours, and this is what happens?

So...she actually said that Yoshino is credited as the director? Wow...words just fail me.

And I see that an unfortunate myth has reared its head again... *sighs*
Ok, I take that as a hint that it's way beyond time to do something about it...


Quote:
Originally Posted by darkplataform View Post
@LMK:
You could have avoided a headache writing that stuff, a future useless fight here, and possibly a public embarrassment by just asking a simple question to karice: "Sources?"
I could answer that, if anyone actually needs / wants it...
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Last edited by karice67; 2012-01-15 at 03:52.
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Old 2012-01-15, 01:29   Link #3647
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Actually Shoji Kawamori is the director. But I don't see why this turned into a mutual hate war. Hiroyuki Yoshino is credited in the first movie as co-"screenplay" but Yasuhito Kikuchi is the screenplay person for the 2nd. And in the TV series Yoshino as script writer for episodes 1-3 on ANN, and in wiki as "written by". Shoji is credited as director in the movies in all cases.(Chief Director in TV) Our translator even had Shoji as the director for the second movie.

So calm down all.
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Old 2012-01-15, 02:02   Link #3648
karice67
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^

Er...Heibi...

Spoiler for size:


Kikuchi is credited only for 'pre-production cooperation' for the 2nd film. He was Technical Director (演出) for the 1st film.
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Old 2012-01-15, 03:49   Link #3649
magnuskn
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Ranka crying in that pic, while Alto looks like he wants to fall asleep... coincidence or conspiracy? Dun, dun, dunnnn.



It's all a giant conspiracy by us, Kawamori, Yoshino, Ohnogi and Shaloom, just to rob Ranka of her rightful destiny. You heard it here first.
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Old 2012-01-15, 05:48   Link #3650
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Good Lord. It gets better, people. Somehow...
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Old 2012-01-15, 09:21   Link #3651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
^

Er...Heibi...

Spoiler for size:


Kikuchi is credited only for 'pre-production cooperation' for the 2nd film. He was Technical Director (演出) for the 1st film.
True, but I was mainly talking about director. Shoji was the director in movie 1 as well as movie 2. He was "screenplay" with Yoshino as well in movie 1. I simply included extra info pertaining to the other positions.
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Old 2012-01-15, 11:16   Link #3652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
But again, in the 2nd movie credits, Yoshino is a script writer and director. So I find the movie to be meh on the love triangle's ending, considering it has been proven countless times that he favored Sheryl.

Yoshino has kinda lost a fan.
Just blame Hiroshi Ohnogi. You'll get a better response.
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Old 2012-01-15, 11:25   Link #3653
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Ranka crying in that pic, while Alto looks like he wants to fall asleep... coincidence or conspiracy? Dun, dun, dunnnn.

Are you sure Alto wasn't actually thinking about Sheryl and wishing she was there next to him holding hands?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yot-chan View Post
Just blame Hiroshi Ohnogi. You'll get a better response.
ROFL, that shit still goin' on?

- Tak
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Old 2012-01-15, 15:48   Link #3654
LoveMeKags
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In the first movie, it had a better story and a nice close; however, the blend of the new character personalities with the old ones (in the old scenes) was bad. Regardless, the movie was nice, as it showed structure. Therefore, this feature, to me - who has seen the structure of DYRL countless times - was directed (and the script was written) by Kawamori.

The second movie had an outlandish plot that overlapped with many others and also had a dumb story. It focused way too much on Sheryl, even more so than the main character, which was Alto, by the way. Ranka's past was never emphasized as much as Sheryl's even though she is the one directly connected to the plot still (being attached to the Vajra). Alto's personality was completely warped compared to the series version (plus his past was also kicked down the drain) and his demons forgotten. The structure of the movie also fell apart after the first fake death and even more so after Sheryl was magically saved by Ai-kun. When compared to the structure of the first, it is easy to see that this was directed (and/or the script was written) by Yoshino.

Just like Kawamori directed the first half of the series and Yoshino the second, all of the second half of the season was pretty much the same as the 2nd movie; it had a plot that just fell apart before you could get into it. Whereas, in movies and series that Kawamori has directed and written the story for, it has never fallen apart.

The fact of the matter is, the series plot fell apart after Ranka left.

I even remember that someone translated an interview in which Kawamori stated the script for Episode 21 threw him off entirely. Ranka leaving was apparently not in the original idea. And looking at what he says "this was my original ending" (for the war, probably); that threw Kawamori off. Episode 22 apparently was also Yoshino's idea entirely. Had the series continued with Ranka on Frontier and built up like the 2nd movie, though a little more stable towards all three characters, perhaps this ending (in terms of war) would've played out in the series like Kawamori had wanted it to.

However, the 2nd movie is the same way: fake death for Sheryl and a magical save for her.
You all talk about Ranka's Jesus powers in the series, right? Well try Ai-kun magically making a barrier around her and then folding her (and Ozma) to Island 1. How is that realistic? How is that any different from the series? Yes, there is no Jesus power directly, but it is similar. Almost TOO similar.

Yes, the scripts are written ahead of time, but speaking as a writer, sometimes you go back and change things to fit things that will come in the future. For the series, they seemed to just throw in Sheryl's illness out of the blue in the later episodes. She showed no signs during the beginning of the series. However, Ranka was tied to the plot right from the first flashback in Episode 1. But if you look at it, that is the only flashback, then Ranka runs to Ozma stating that she said she'd never tell anyone about "it." This shows that they had to go back and insert things in after writing the rest of the episodes. So when Ranka leaves in Episode 21, the following episodes show Alto thinking about her and among other things, still trying to tie her to the plot, however, they do not focus on her anymore (not for long periods of time) and the plot starts to fall apart. It becomes mostly Sheryl focused even though it should be more Alto focused, for he should be making the final vast decisions.

Here, I'll state in simple terms: when you write a draft of something, you often write the whole thing out and then go back. But when two people are writing the scripts, you have to reach an understanding and find the halfway point in which the script will come out making sense.
In Frontier's case, it never reached that point. When Yoshino had Ranka leave Frontier, Kawamori, for Episode 23, seemed thrown at a loop for how to reinsert her and still keep the plot flowing correctly. That is why he could not get the ending he'd wanted.

Quote:
Your sole argument for him being a bad writer or bad storyteller rests on the fact that Ranka had lost the triangle. Thats it. If this is the best you can come up with in criticizing Yoshino's works, then I highly doubt he, and the rest of us, will be missing much losing you as a fan.
I've seen other of Yoshino's works before this, even without knowing. Series that I no longer want to see, I rarely look up. But upon looking at his bio, I noticed quite a few series I've watched that he's directed that I did not like the ending, regardless of triangles. Just the simple fact the plot fell apart or became stupid at the halfway point drove me away.

It has nothing to do with Macross or Ranka directly. Stop assuming that. You have no idea what other series or works I have seen by him to make that assumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
Ranka crying in that pic, while Alto looks like he wants to fall asleep... coincidence or conspiracy? Dun, dun, dunnnn.
Nope. He's thinking why he didn't notice she was so cute this close up to begin with and is daydreaming about her.
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Old 2012-01-15, 18:50   Link #3655
magnuskn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Are you sure Alto wasn't actually thinking about Sheryl and wishing she was there next to him holding hands?

- Tak
I'd expect him to be more vivacious at such a delightful thought.
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Old 2012-01-15, 18:54   Link #3656
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnuskn View Post
I'd expect him to be more vivacious at such a delightful thought.
Well, we don't know, since for the duration of that scene, the camera only focused on the upper half of his torso... see...

- Tak
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Old 2012-01-15, 19:18   Link #3657
Darthtabby
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While we're on the subject of Yoshino -is there an accurate list of which episodes of the TV series he wrote somewhere? ANN credits him with the script for Episodes one to three, but I'm wondering if there could be others since Episodes one to three are also the only ones where ANN's page on the TV series gives a name for the script credit. (Also, Yoshino is credited with "Series Composition" for Frontier, and it seems to me that he has a tendency to write a large portion of the episode scripts for series where he's credited with that.)
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Old 2012-01-15, 22:04   Link #3658
Tak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtabby View Post
While we're on the subject of Yoshino -is there an accurate list of which episodes of the TV series he wrote somewhere? ANN credits him with the script for Episodes one to three, but I'm wondering if there could be others since Episodes one to three are also the only ones where ANN's page on the TV series gives a name for the script credit. (Also, Yoshino is credited with "Series Composition" for Frontier, and it seems to me that he has a tendency to write a large portion of the episode scripts for series where he's credited with that.)
According to the Japanese wiki, he was responsible for all 25 episodes, and I have little reason to double the information.

- Tak
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Old 2012-01-15, 22:09   Link #3659
Lexxus
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I really enjoyed these two movies especially this movie. It is way better than the series, IMO. I'm glad that Alto choose Sheryl over Ranka though I'm not quite sure if Alto gets back or maybe I missed something. Anyway, this movie is great. I really can't believe that I didn't watch this as soon the subbed was out but nevertheless a perfect 10 for me
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Old 2012-01-16, 03:30   Link #3660
magnuskn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Well, we don't know, since for the duration of that scene, the camera only focused on the upper half of his torso... see...

- Tak
Well, that brings a heap of new interpretations into Rankas facial expression in that pic.
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