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View Poll Results: Shakugan no Shana III - Episode 14 Rating
Perfect 10 30 55.56%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 11 20.37%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 9 16.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 5.56%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 1.85%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-01-16, 17:41   Link #61
Deathscyther
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Wow, awesome episode. 9/10

Great to see Shana in her battle suit again. It sure looks great on her. I like it better than the school uniform and the dress (although everything looks good on her)

Yuji's/SnH's speeches were great. They sure have a knack for propaganda lol.

It's not surprising that most of the flame hazes don't know what to do anymore now that their reason to exist has been destroyed. So much has to be going through their minds at this moment. What reason do we have to continue living? It is alright to trust the leader of the organization we have been fighting for so long? Is it alright to stop fighting? Is it alright to rest? Even if we decide to fight.....do we even have a chance?

I don't think that Yuji actually meant to mentally destroy the flame hazes like that though. He only wanted to stop the flame hazes, so that no more lives would have to be lost in vain. He believes his plan will result in peace after all. SnH took over and used this moment to completely destroy the morale of flame hazes though.

As for as Xanadu, I think Power of Existence won't be a problem there. It's as Yuji said before. He's going to change the rules of the world in Xanadu. I guess he'll create this new world in such a way that tomogara won't have to eat PoE in order to stay alive. Maybe he'll make something like a 'natural' fountain of existence. He might even go so far that he'll make it so that tomogara won't need PoE at all anymore once in Xanadu. SnH is the god of creation after all, he should be able to do something this.

I think the Reiji Maigo won't come into play here. The Reiji Maigo will have to stay inside Yuji after all, so that Yuji can walk with Shana. SnH seems to repect Yuji, so I think that he wants Yuji to get his wish fulfilled in the end.
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Old 2012-01-16, 18:02   Link #62
hyl
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Originally Posted by Deathscyther View Post
I think the Reiji Maigo won't come into play here. The Reiji Maigo will have to stay inside Yuji after all, so that Yuji can walk with Shana. SnH seems to repect Yuji, so I think that he wants Yuji to get his wish fulfilled in the end.
I don't think that Yuji was choosen by Sairei no Hebi as his host without the intention of using Yuji's enormous amount of PoE and the Reji Maigo though. Maybe that could be the bad feeling that Shana at the end of this episode.
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Old 2012-01-16, 20:58   Link #63
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Since no on touched on this yet, though it's only quasi-related...
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Originally Posted by edgelesspigeon View Post
Hey, just a quick question. Am I correct in assuming that the season finishes production before airing?
Obviously, the story outline was complete before the first episode aired, but typically the actual episode production is staggered and each episode is usually finished not too long before airing. An episode might be in production for a few months, but they have different teams working on different episodes and each one is at its own step of the process (scriptwriting, storyboarding, key visuals, backgrounds, coloring, tweening, CG rendering, sound recording, mixing, editing, post-production, etc. etc.).

So all that to say, production isn't finished on the show at this point. The new scenes they showed in the OP were probably animated just for that purpose... but that doesn't mean they won't end up re-using some (if appropriate) when the actual episodes come.
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Old 2012-01-16, 22:13   Link #64
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Thanks, relentlessflame.
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Old 2012-01-17, 02:59   Link #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathscyther View Post
I don't think that Yuji actually meant to mentally destroy the flame hazes like that though. He only wanted to stop the flame hazes, so that no more lives would have to be lost in vain. He believes his plan will result in peace after all. SnH took over and used this moment to completely destroy the morale of flame hazes though.
I don't know if he meant to either, but I don't think he particularly cared either way. I mean it wasn't a bother for him if Margery completely self destructed or simply couldn't fight anymore. If he can do that to someone he knows then what is it to him if some army of Flame Hazes he knows nothing of get slaughtered? He's got a big picture thing going on here and a few sacrifices are simply necessary for that. It might be painting Yuji as too callous, but doesn't seem like he was fighting the SnH for control to stop the slaughter either.
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Old 2012-01-17, 08:22   Link #66
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Plus you know something has to be terribly wrong with this plan or it'd make the second part of this season really awkward . This whole copy of the world thing sounds terribly suspicious anyways. What he's just going to happen to make a world full of energy that's nice and empty? Or does he mean literally copying like the individual people in the world? In that case one would be debating the morals of sicking all the Tomogara on a bunch of clones.

It all sounds good, but like any good politician didn't think he gave much on the details.
isnt SoF the one who created the currently world? If he could do it then why can't he do it again?
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Old 2012-01-17, 08:26   Link #67
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isnt SoF the one who created the currently world? If he could do it then why can't he do it again?
He was? I didn't know... I always though he was the god of creation who could create... things. But as far as I know creating a world from scratch is very risky.
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Old 2012-01-17, 12:23   Link #68
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isnt SoF the one who created the currently world? If he could do it then why can't he do it again?
I believe that in this case, "God of Creation" means a god whose powers are related to creation, not a god who was responsible for creating the entire world back in the beginning of time or whatever.
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Old 2012-01-17, 12:41   Link #69
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isnt SoF the one who created the currently world? If he could do it then why can't he do it again?
Regardless even if that was the case you guys are forgetting that these spells require a large amount of Power (AKA eating humans)

To create an actual world would require tons of humans to be consumed to do it which was one of the reasons why the Flame Hazes stopped him the first time.

How he's doing it this time around I'm not sure but the Reiji Mago must play some role.
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Old 2012-01-17, 13:32   Link #70
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Regardless even if that was the case you guys are forgetting that these spells require a large amount of Power (AKA eating humans)

To create an actual world would require tons of humans to be consumed to do it which was one of the reasons why the Flame Hazes stopped him the first time.

How he's doing it this time around I'm not sure but the Reiji Mago must play some role.
Actually, as I understand it, the first time he hadn't even fully formed his plans to duplicate the entire world yet, and the only (known) reason he was stopped was because the Flame Hazes feared he'd bring about disaster. I could be wrong, but I don't believe we've heard anything about his initial plans requiring eating tons of humans.
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Old 2012-01-17, 14:02   Link #71
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Actually, as I understand it, the first time he hadn't even fully formed his plans to duplicate the entire world yet, and the only (known) reason he was stopped was because the Flame Hazes feared he'd bring about disaster. I could be wrong, but I don't believe we've heard anything about his initial plans requiring eating tons of humans.
I think that's why Ramies is there. Back in episode 7, more or less, of Season 1 Alastor said he had a huge quantity of PoE stored, although he consumed little and week torches - that's why he was "dangerous" for Margery, though unoffensive for Flame Hazes like Shana.
Maybe SnH will use that PoE for his creation.
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Old 2012-01-17, 14:09   Link #72
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Power =/= eating humans. it's just one of the easier way. All Flame Haze use PoE and do you think any of them eats human?

Actually this kinda made me think where did the Flame Haze draw their powers from. Is it from the denizens who they've slain? If so, then is the world structure a food chain where humans are in the bottom, then denizens above them, then the Flame Haze above them? Maybe the Flame Haze feared that if the denizens would go away, then they will also have to go away or risk taking the place of the denizens and terrorize humanity.
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Old 2012-01-17, 14:15   Link #73
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Originally Posted by Senshigeia View Post
I think that's why Ramies is there. Back in episode 7, more or less, of Season 1 Alastor said he had a huge quantity of PoE stored, although he consumed little and week torches - that's why he was "dangerous" for Margery, though unoffensive for Flame Hazes like Shana.
Maybe SnH will use that PoE for his creation.
Didn't Ramies use up quite a bit of his stored power to restore that portion of Misaki City at the end of that story arc in season 1? From the looks of it, Bal Masque simply needed him for his unparalleled spellwork.
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Old 2012-01-17, 14:19   Link #74
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Power =/= eating humans. it's just one of the easier way. All Flame Haze use PoE and do you think any of them eats human?

Actually this kinda made me think where did the Flame Haze draw their powers from. Is it from the denizens who they've slain? If so, then is the world structure a food chain where humans are in the bottom, then denizens above them, then the Flame Haze above them? Maybe the Flame Haze feared that if the denizens would go away, then they will also have to go away or risk taking the place of the denizens and terrorize humanity.
Flame Hazes have PoE themselves: Shana has a enormous amount of PoE. I read somewhere here, maybe in he SnS Q & A thread (I don't quite remember) that the more famous the human was during his "normal" life, the biggest amount of PoE he has when becoming a Flame Haze. Then if Wilhelmina was a princess, Shana must have been even more famous, because she has more PoE. Correct me if I am wrong...

Also, I think the Guze Kings give power to their Flame Hazes, besides them mastering their own PoE. But then again, this is what I think...
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Old 2012-01-17, 15:04   Link #75
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Power =/= eating humans. it's just one of the easier way. All Flame Haze use PoE and do you think any of them eats human?
Ok then what were they all fighting about in the first place? I was under the impression that the Flame Hazes were created to protect the balance by fighting Crimson Denizens that consume humans for PoE. I do know they can get PoE from objects but according to what I've heard it's insignficant so they don't do it.

Isn't that the whole purpose of Yuji joining Snake? To stop the fighting and make a world where Denizens wouldn't have to eat humans anymore.

And I thought the process in creating flame hazes were targeting individuals who have a massive PoE potential such as Shana who is capable of allowing Alastor to manifest within her. They dont' just pick random people at will. The Lords themselves also have a significant amount of PoE in themselves compared to Denizens and they aren't exactly manifested in our world either (they are sealed in those objects). Denizens consume humans in order to continue to remain on Earth.

Quote:
Maybe the Flame Haze feared that if the denizens would go away, then they will also have to go away or risk taking the place of the denizens and terrorize humanity.
Ok seriously all Flame Hazes were created due to a sense of revenge for being attacked by Crimson Denizens. They are faltering because as Yuji pointed out, they will no longer have to fight with hatred so the question becomes what is their purpose in life? This is what happened to Margery but she regained her mind by changing herself to fighting for Sato. She was about to destroy herself as she no longer had any purpose in pursuing the Silver.

The only reason why they'll keep fighting is because even though they are in full retreat the Denizens will continue to attack them regardless so it's now a fight for survival.

I can't believe that just because Yuji has joined Bal Masque everyone is trying to villify the Flame Hazes in whatever angle they can get to the point that it's now that "oh denizens don't eat humans" when in fact that's what we've been seeing for the past 2 seasons.

Last edited by SoldierOfDarkness; 2012-01-17 at 15:18.
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Old 2012-01-17, 15:12   Link #76
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I thought Shana was a nameless nobody before she became a Flame Haze.
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Old 2012-01-17, 15:24   Link #77
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I thought Shana was a nameless nobody before she became a Flame Haze.
Actually, no, she wasn't. I think the novels go into a bit more detail about this, and it's actually referenced a bit in the manga adaption too. She was someone very important, but I don't know if you ever find out who precisely, or just where the heck Alastor found her. Since she didn't have a name, she must have been taken when she was young, but there was something very important about her even as a child.

From what I understand though, the process of becoming a Flame Haze does something to your existence, similar to a person who has had their existence consumed. Everyone will forget you and all traces of you will vanish from the world. So no matter how important Shana was at one time, every human will have completely forgotten she ever existed.
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Old 2012-01-17, 16:27   Link #78
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I don't know if he meant to either, but I don't think he particularly cared either way. I mean it wasn't a bother for him if Margery completely self destructed or simply couldn't fight anymore. If he can do that to someone he knows then what is it to him if some army of Flame Hazes he knows nothing of get slaughtered? He's got a big picture thing going on here and a few sacrifices are simply necessary for that. It might be painting Yuji as too callous, but doesn't seem like he was fighting the SnH for control to stop the slaughter either.
I think Yuji cares in his own way. It's all about setting priorities.

Yuji had come to Misaki City with only one goal in mind. To take Shana with him. In order to take her with him, Yuji had to take care of Wilhelmina and Margery as well. He first tried to keep Wilhelmina and Margery away by sealing them in a silver ball, but soon found out that they'd break out sooner than later.

If they would have broken out, Yuji might have been forced to kill them. So he chose the safer option. Telling Margery about the Silver. He knew that she wouldn't be able to fight anymore after hearing that. Wilhelmina would need to take care of Margery and wouldn't be able to fight either. This would enable him to deal with Shana without having to kill anyone.....with his own hands at least.

In this episode I see the same pattern. He's trying to stop the fighting, because it only slows down his plans and brings about lots of meaningless deaths in his eyes. This cruel world isn't even worth protecting in his eyes. He truly believes he's doing it for their own good after all, since his plan would bring peace to this world.

He knows the flame hazes won't back down without a fight though. He knows they'll try to stop him. Do remember, Yuji is not fighting to defeat the flame hazes. He is fighting to stall time. Time he needed to find the body of the SnH, time he now needs time for the body of SnH to get used to this world and time he'll need time to create Xanadu.

For Yuji right now the end does indeed justifiy the means. To me, it seems that he is trying to make the journey to that end as quick and painless as he possible can though.
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Old 2012-01-17, 16:49   Link #79
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I think Yuji cares in his own way. It's all about setting priorities.

Yuji had come to Misaki City with only one goal in mind. To take Shana with him. In order to take her with him, Yuji had to take care of Wilhelmina and Margery as well. He first tried to keep Wilhelmina and Margery away by sealing them in a silver ball, but soon found out that they'd break out sooner than later.

If they would have broken out, Yuji might have been forced to kill them. So he chose the safer option. Telling Margery about the Silver. He knew that she wouldn't be able to fight anymore after hearing that. Wilhelmina would need to take care of Margery and wouldn't be able to fight either. This would enable him to deal with Shana without having to kill anyone.....with his own hands at least.

In this episode I see the same pattern. He's trying to stop the fighting, because it only slows down his plans and brings about lots of meaningless deaths in his eyes. This cruel world isn't even worth protecting in his eyes. He truly believes he's doing it for their own good after all, since his plan would bring peace to this world.

He knows the flame hazes won't back down without a fight though. He knows they'll try to stop him. Do remember, Yuji is not fighting to defeat the flame hazes. He is fighting to stall time. Time he needed to find the body of the SnH, time he now needs time for the body of SnH to get used to this world and time he'll need time to create Xanadu.

For Yuji right now the end does indeed justifiy the means. To me, it seems that he is trying to make the journey to that end as quick and painless as he possible can though.
Yes that makes a lot of sense to me! In this episode he cleary says "What is the point of protecting such a cruel world? If there's a power to change that, then it should be used. No, I need to use it. That will pun and end to our battle. So don't get in my way Flame Hazes!" His goal is to create this world, no matter what. «The ends justify the means».
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Old 2012-01-17, 17:13   Link #80
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And I thought the process in creating flame hazes were targeting individuals who have a massive PoE potential such as Shana who is capable of allowing Alastor to manifest within her. They dont' just pick random people at will. The Lords themselves also have a significant amount of PoE in themselves compared to Denizens and they aren't exactly manifested in our world either (they are sealed in those objects). Denizens consume humans in order to continue to remain on Earth.
OK, basically what I've been asking is: suppose a Flame Haze has a huge PoE pool. Does it regenerate by itself overtime, or does it have to be restored from an outside source? Because if they regenerate over time, then Reiji Maigo isn't all that exclusive anymore now, is it? No matter how large the pool is, if it's constantly used without being replenished, it's bound to run out sometime, wouldn't it? But it doesn't seem that the Flame Hazes hesitate to use their powers which means they should have a stable supply line that prevents them from running out of fuel, right? where does this renewable fuel came from? Does being a Crimson Lord means you can supply your contractor with seemingly limitless PoE? If so, why do the Crimson Lords, strictly a denizen of the Crimson World have all that PoE? Wasn't Crimson World supposedly devoid of PoE which was why denizens came to our world in the first place?

Eh, perhaps this should be placed in the Q&A section, but rather than asking for the answer straight out, I'm merely speculating, as an anime-only watcher.

Quote:
Ok seriously all Flame Hazes were created due to a sense of revenge for being attacked by Crimson Denizens. They are faltering because as Yuji pointed out, they will no longer have to fight with hatred so the question becomes what is their purpose in life? This is what happened to Margery but she regained her mind by changing herself to fighting for Sato. She was about to destroy herself as she no longer had any purpose in pursuing the Silver.

The only reason why they'll keep fighting is because even though they are in full retreat the Denizens will continue to attack them regardless so it's now a fight for survival.
I get that. Which is why I said that if the denizens are gone, then they'd have no choice but to go away too. Since the very reason of Flame Haze existence is "vengeance" and for the "balance of the worlds", while protecting the world of humans as a result, that doesn't strictly make them allies of humans either. With the denizens gone, they'll probably have nowhere to direct that vengeance other than themselves, or against humans. Which is why I think that probably the "good" flame-hazes would've preferred to self destruct, because with no denizen to disturb the balance, the Flame-Haze's existence themselves might cause the unbalance they feared.

Quote:
I can't believe that just because Yuji has joined Bal Masque everyone is trying to villify the Flame Hazes in whatever angle they can get to the point that it's now that "oh denizens don't eat humans" when in fact that's what we've been seeing for the past 2 seasons.
I don't think anybody said denizens don't eat humans.
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