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Old 2012-01-18, 20:34   Link #301
0utf0xZer0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Where to start?

You are distracted by non-existent kids and teenagers, view them sexually, yet blame animators, scriptwriters, and viewers who don't. If not what is exactly distracting you?
I don't think either Reckoner or I view Miu sexually. However, both of us think that the creators are trying to pitch her as sexually attractive. That's why the fanservice is squick inducing despite not being as blatant as many other shows, it's a constant reminder of that.

I'm usually pretty lenient about lolicon fanservice. I frequently give shows the benefit of the doubt over whether they were trying to be cute or sexual. And I've also elected not to complain about shows with significantly more lolicon fanservice like Ro-Kyu-Bu! or Astarotte's Toy because these shows are so tongue-in cheek about it. I saw nothing in this show that raised either defense: if the creators were intending the miu fanservice to be cutesy or tongue in cheek rather than sexual, they certainly failed to get that across.

Sora's older so the fanservice of her doesn't really bug me on an age basis. But the portrayal of her obsession with Yuuta comes across as somewhat too crass and perverted, rather than cute or touching (as with Tomoka in Ro-Kyu-Bu! and a few others). I should not that I don't necessarily blame this just on the fanservice though. I actually thought that Yuuta seeing her in her underwear worked just fine despite her being cliched, since it has the potential to make her even more embarassed about her already awkward attraction to him. But the sum of her portrayal as a whole makes her attraction to an older guy feel crass compared to similar attractions seen in other shows. Maybe the staff just isn't very good with plot and character development, as I don't think they handled the plot twist well either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I stated that what I wanted is not foreshadowing, but TRANSITION. One moment we hear about the accident happening on his TV and phone as he is asleep. Next moment we're suddenly at the funeral scene. We didn't get to see how the characters reacted to the news when they first got it, how he as their uncle decided to break the news to them, how the girls first reacted to it, absolutely nothing! These scenes would have been great to show, to illustrate and explore the dramatic crisis at hand, but they just jumped from one scene to the next without anything. Impact is most certainly lost here because of this, especially when the scene was just crammed haphazardly at the end of the episode (Besides some reality checks for the show in question).
I'm not actually sure that showing the first reactions would necessarily be a good idea - that's the kind of thing that can be hard to get right. Plus, I honestly think my suggestions (show the news report as a "wham" moment at the end of episode two, then do the funeral scene in episode three with an implied time skip. It would make for a much smoother transition IMO.
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Old 2012-01-18, 20:40   Link #302
djmaca
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
After reading the first few chapters of the manga, which takes place after the disappearance, it was really nice to see what lead up to it. It was really well-done and the characters are great. Not a fan of the 10 year old fan service and I'm definitely a Yuuta-Raika fan, as Sora's only 14, but I can deal with it as long it's not a main focus of the anime and long as Yuuta doesn't start have sexual fantasies about the kids. Then it goes into a territory I don't want to be in. :P
Which manga? There are different mangas for the story, presented in the different POVs of the characters.

And no, I assure you it will not go into that territory.
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Old 2012-01-18, 21:02   Link #303
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
My main complaint of the episode besides that though is simply that this anime is really rushed though towards its ending scenes. No transition use whatsoever.
Actually, there's no transition in the novel as well. Yuuta just narrated he got the news and the next sentence (or the next few sentences) is the funeral scene. That's because the impact was intended to be delivered later, and having reactions on the blow of the deaths here may lessened the impact at the conclusion of the arc, so I guess that's why the author chose to gloss it over at this point to create a more climatic scene later. And for Yuuta, he's pretty much in shock then grief mode.

Just saying.
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Old 2012-01-18, 21:14   Link #304
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One thing I want to say: People who think that there needs to be immediate reaction need to realize that many times the grief comes much later. While I haven't read the novels, I can guess that we'll be dealing with the grief issues further down the road. Therefore.....

Let's wait one or two more episodes before we go with the bad execution debates.
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Old 2012-01-18, 22:00   Link #305
hyl
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After people missing, their relatives always hope that their friends or family that were in an accident are ok or atleast alive. It probably hits the viewer harder to see immediately a funeral, which means that the hope of any survival has been destroyed.
So in short, i don't think it was a bad transition.
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Old 2012-01-18, 22:18   Link #306
seaghyn16
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@hyl

It is hard to accept that... Until the bodies are recovered...I'm going with my Tom Hanks Cast Away mindset. The funeral still makes sense, because it is the more likely ending of the plane crash. But in the novel synopsis and all, it never once mentions the parents are dead. It says 行方不明, which is just "missing"

I'm still hoping one or both of them come back...
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Old 2012-01-18, 22:23   Link #307
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seaghyn16 View Post
@hyl

It is hard to accept that... Until the bodies are recovered...I'm going with my Tom Hanks Cast Away mindset. The funeral still makes sense, because it is the more likely ending of the plane crash. But in the novel synopsis and all, it never once mentions the parents are dead. It says 行方不明, which is just "missing"

I'm still hoping one or both of them come back...
Hard to accept, yes. But in real life not every body can be recovered or even found after an accident. So at one point, people have to accept the loss by thinking that they could not have survived.

edit: forgot to mention that i haven't read the novels.

Also i won't deny that they could have survived it (for a happy end), but that would be quite a miracle. Realistically i don't think many people survive plane crashes. (although it depends on when the plane crashed though)
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Old 2012-01-18, 22:26   Link #308
djmaca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
One thing I want to say: People who think that there needs to be immediate reaction need to realize that many times the grief comes much later. While I haven't read the novels, I can guess that we'll be dealing with the grief issues further down the road. Therefore.....

Let's wait one or two more episodes before we go with the bad execution debates.
OH! She's here! The Super Lesbian Harem-Making Dictator Queen *bows down*

Of course there will be grief. Much like how his sister struggled to raise him, he will be struggling to support three kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seaghyn16 View Post
@hyl

It is hard to accept that... Until the bodies are recovered...I'm going with my Tom Hanks Cast Away mindset. The funeral still makes sense, because it is the more likely ending of the plane crash. But in the novel synopsis and all, it never once mentions the parents are dead. It says 行方不明, which is just "missing"

I'm still hoping one or both of them come back...
I'm with you on this one. From my personal experience with SaR volunteers, we are told that anyone in the missing lists is still possibly alive until we can prove they're dead.
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Old 2012-01-18, 22:35   Link #309
hyl
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Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
I'm with you on this one. From my personal experience with SaR volunteers, we are told that anyone in the missing lists is still possibly alive until we can prove they're dead.
Although you still have to take into account how much time has passed. The more time it has passed, the less chance of survivors because they could have died from something after surviving the crash.
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Old 2012-01-18, 22:38   Link #310
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Although you still have to take into account how much time has passed. The more time it has passed, the less chance of survivors because they could have died from something after surviving the crash.
That's for the future. For now.... so little has passed.
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Old 2012-01-18, 23:05   Link #311
hyl
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
That's for the future. For now.... so little has passed.
I don't even think we know yet how much time has passed. But seeing that there is already a funeral eventhough bodies are not found yet, I can assume that it's not just a few days after the crash.
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Old 2012-01-18, 23:36   Link #312
Malkuth
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dj- and others covered me already, plus it's getting out of hand to continue arguing on others' beliefs, reason has no place there. What I really would like, is to stop posting in the anime thread seeing 10 post after each episode about how outraged someone is with fan-service, as you call it. I and others stopped referencing another show here and took it into a social group... do the same, create the "anti-H witch-hunters", you can bash as much as you want shows there without insulting people who disagree, since discussion is not taking place here on this subject.

Now whether the show turns out as Rotte, we'll see... Rotte diverged a lot from the manga both thematically and plot-wise, and honestly I liked both, but for completely different reasons. PapaKiku can forget the heart-warming atmosphere of these two episodes animeting prequel of the manga and turn into an ecchi comedy or continue with the same mood... we'll see until the end of the month how it turns out.
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Old 2012-01-18, 23:50   Link #313
Dawnstorm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0 View Post
I'm not actually sure that showing the first reactions would necessarily be a good idea - that's the kind of thing that can be hard to get right. Plus, I honestly think my suggestions (show the news report as a "wham" moment at the end of episode two, then do the funeral scene in episode three with an implied time skip. It would make for a much smoother transition IMO.
I'm actually with Reckoner, here, since - plotwise - this is a defining moment in their relationship. It's sort of the first trial. How does he deal with (a) his own grief, and (b) the girls'? How does he handle the situation? This one scene is programmatic for the entire concept. Can they master a really difficult situation? Don't use a difficult concept, if you're afraid of a difficult scene.

Of course, that scene can still come later, in a flashback. Or they may have other reasons for skipping it. I've not yet made up my mind.
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Old 2012-01-19, 01:05   Link #314
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
How do you know this is their actual intent? Fanservice does not equate to sexual object.

Sex posters? WTH!?! Sex posters where!?!
Cute.

OK. Creators show fanservice of these girls, not because it's sexually objectifying them in any way, but because it is the most perfectly natural thing to do.

I know I tend to be overly cynical at times, but really ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Most of the people posting their opinion just want to be heard and for other people who feel the same way to affirm their point of view. Debating it is pointless.
Personally I was just trying to bring down this thread to earth after I saw all the Usagi Drop comparison, which personally I didn't even find accurate for various reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larethian View Post
Actually, there's no transition in the novel as well. Yuuta just narrated he got the news and the next sentence (or the next few sentences) is the funeral scene. That's because the impact was intended to be delivered later, and having reactions on the blow of the deaths here may lessened the impact at the conclusion of the arc, so I guess that's why the author chose to gloss it over at this point to create a more climatic scene later. And for Yuuta, he's pretty much in shock then grief mode.

Just saying.
Well we'll see how the characters fare later, but just because it is in the novel does not make the anime any better. The source can be flawed as well. Personally I would have gone for a better transition, but oh well, I'll move on. Lets see how this anime handles itself in the next episodes. If it goes in a bad direction for me, adios.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
One thing I want to say: People who think that there needs to be immediate reaction need to realize that many times the grief comes much later. While I haven't read the novels, I can guess that we'll be dealing with the grief issues further down the road. Therefore.....

Let's wait one or two more episodes before we go with the bad execution debates.
See my point originally (Assuming it wasn't lost) was there was a certain combination of factors that led to the last scene in the episode missing the mark in the emotionally involving department. Some of this included sexually objectifying the girls in a way that makes it feel a bit odd for this guy to become the guardian of these girls, others included lack of transition and proper setup.
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Old 2012-01-19, 01:41   Link #315
monir
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Personally I was just trying to bring down this thread to earth after I saw all the Usagi Drop comparison, which personally I didn't even find accurate for various reasons.
It doesn't help when you are posting your views in the following manner:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Lets not kid ourselves here. There is exactly one reason why they have pantsu shots of these young girls, as well as that shower scene in this show. Regardless of what the main character is thinking, it's meant for certain audiences to get off on that type of shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Because the show seems to be going for something more than just a trashy ecchi lolicon display, it feels disruptive to the story and also just very cliche.

Also personally, fanservice of really young girls doesn't turn me on at the slightest.
In some posts you come across as someone who is articulate and shows good line of thoughts. And then in some of your other posts you are just coming across as severely dismissive and judgmental. In my very humble observation, I think you should tweak your approach just a tiny bit cause you are certainly capable of it.

To get us back into the topic, the preview already gives indication to the aftermath of the loss. I also found it amusing how the relative was announcing the fate of each of the three sisters. When it came to older sister, he almost paused for a second before continuing as if to cue in a drumroll before damning her to boarding school.
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Old 2012-01-19, 01:46   Link #316
Wandering_Youth
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I'm really liking the OP and ED songs. They're both so catchy and hip, I hope they release the songs soon.
Spoiler for They look so innocent...:

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Old 2012-01-19, 01:48   Link #317
djmaca
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Cute.
OK. Creators show fanservice of these girls, not because it's sexually objectifying them in any way, but because it is the most perfectly natural thing to do.

I know I tend to be overly cynical at times, but really ?

...Some of this included sexually objectifying the girls in a way that makes it feel a bit odd for this guy to become the guardian of these girls...
I'm gonna ask a second time: which part of the show seems sexually objectifying? If you can think of that and we don't, don't you think that the one who is thinking dirty thought is you?

There's nothing sexually objectifying in any part of the show, or at least I don't see it. Except for some comparisons with a certain porn anime through looks, I'm appalled some people can even find any.
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Old 2012-01-19, 02:06   Link #318
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I know somewhere some blogger is typing review for this episode with : "Meh! forced drama!" or "Meh! aneshotaincestfanservice"

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
I'm gonna ask a second time: which part of the show seems sexually objectifying? If you can think of that and we don't, don't you think that the one who is thinking dirty thought is you?

There's nothing sexually objectifying in any part of the show, or at least I don't see it. Except for some comparisons with a certain porn anime through looks, I'm appalled some people can even find any.
dont worry
I with you!

It is not show or object that dirty, but thought
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaghyn16 View Post
since they are described as "missing" and not "confirmed dead," I'm hoping the parents have a turn of events like Cast Away with Tom Hanks, and eventually do come back...
Lets pray to Lady Bernkastel
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Old 2012-01-19, 02:06   Link #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Let's wait one or two more episodes before we go with the bad execution debates.
We should really wait till the series completely ends for something like that

As for episode 2, couldn't get enough of Hina being so cute >.<


Just went "DAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWW" while watching this
But WTF Yuuta, playing serious against a little girl >.>

The ending really caught me by surprise, wasn't expecting this kind of development. I thought this was going to be lighthearted comedy but now it's going to be interesting how the story moves from here. Taking care of just one kid itself would be pretty demanding, I hope Yuuta has learned a lot after living all those years together with his sister after their parents passed away and is mentally tough enough for this challenge. Also expecting Raika to play a big role in their lives.
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Old 2012-01-19, 02:09   Link #320
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmaca View Post
I'm gonna ask a second time: which part of the show seems sexually objectifying? If you can think of that and we don't, don't you think that the one who is thinking dirty thought is you?
You are treading into personal opinion and views there. I think he adequately answered the question in his posts where he thought the show could have done better. We don't all think the same away. That's the beauty of being an individual. I really don't see why you still feel the need to interrogate him any further. You won't go any where with this.

Quote:
There's nothing sexually objectifying in any part of the show, or at least I don't see it. Except for some comparisons with a certain porn anime through looks, I'm appalled some people can even find any.
Again, that's a viewpoint you've reached from your own set of understanding. It doesn't mean someone won't see it differently. If you want to discuss this matter any further, then why not take up on Reckoner's suggestion and PM/VM him. Perhaps both of you will come to understand each other a little bit better than in the present.
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