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Old 2012-01-21, 05:20   Link #761
judasmartel
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So here we are:

Energy - Fire-, Ice-, and Lightning-elemental Espers
Matter - Water-, Wind-, and Earth-elemental Espers
Space - Teleporters and Psychic-type Espers

So does this make sense now?

EDIT: Fighting-type Espers (meh, lame pun) IMO are Energy-type espers. After all, they need energy to pulverize solid concrete with Super Strength. Super Speed, doesn't it fall under Teleporters?

DOUBLE EDIT: So, is this massive-scale war between AC and the Magic Side the whole point of "Esper Character Creation" threads I have seen around the Internet lately?
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Old 2012-01-21, 05:34   Link #762
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
DOUBLE EDIT: So, is this massive-scale war between AC and the Magic Side the whole point of "Esper Character Creation" threads I have seen around the Internet lately?
What? No, those things have been around ever since Railgun Anime gotten popular and every other person wants a character to be in Tokiwadai or Judgment, plus Espers are easier to create than Magicians since we already know all the rules.


Magicians need more creativity, but you can do alot more things with them.

Plus there's the Hogwarts Effect(tm) , when you create an Esper, you're part of a small little world.

Magicians don't have that, they don't have a place like Academy City.


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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post

EDIT: Fighting-type Espers (meh, lame pun) IMO are Energy-type espers. After all, they need energy to pulverize solid concrete with Super Strength. Super Speed, doesn't it fall under Teleporters?

Strength could be Kinetic Energy I guess, I'm sure there are tons of comic book fan geeks that knows this better than me.

But super speed is not the same as teleport on the principle that you still have to physically cross that distance.
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Old 2012-01-21, 06:11   Link #763
judasmartel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
What? No, those things have been around ever since Railgun Anime gotten popular and every other person wants a character to be in Tokiwadai or Judgment, plus Espers are easier to create than Magicians since we already know all the rules.
I think it was in Gendou where I have found someone creating a Level 4 Ice Esper with the exact same skill-set as Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat. Asides him, there's no other esper in Gendou that interested me that much.

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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
But super speed is not the same as teleport on the principle that you still have to physically cross that distance.
Hm, I see. I think it blurs the line between Kinetic and Space. While Super Speed Espers still need to cross the distance unlike Teleporters who can bypass that, they still violate some sense of distance while using up energy because there's a maximum speed a human can achieve without getting burned by the air friction.
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Old 2012-01-21, 07:53   Link #764
leukrota
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Hm, I see. I think it blurs the line between Kinetic and Space. While Super Speed Espers still need to cross the distance unlike Teleporters who can bypass that, they still violate some sense of distance while using up energy because there's a maximum speed a human can achieve without getting burned by the air friction.
Super Speed does not need to be a space power. Suppose the user can absorb and use kinetic energy, this way he could recycle the energy created by friction and thus avoiding both the heat and deceleration.

This scheme is slightly similar to Accelerator's redirection, although quite a bit more limited... Such an Esper could also use the Gravity force to accelerate forward. I guess this type of Esper would be ironically faster the heavier he/she was.
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Old 2012-01-21, 08:03   Link #765
judasmartel
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Or a thin-built Super Speed esper can use items like flashbangs or smoke bombs (to create heat energy) which he can use to run really fast a la Human Smoke from Mortal Kombat 9. Or magnets (he can also have magnets embedded in his clothes, preferably shoes) so he can run LIKE A MAGLEV TRAIN.
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Old 2012-01-21, 09:13   Link #766
Chaos2Frozen
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Really though, things like Super Strength and super speed, you're better off asking those comic book fans about their mechanics, I'm sure there's already stacks and stacks of paper written about Superman and Flash and the physics of super heroes

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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
I think it was in Gendou where I have found someone creating a Level 4 Ice Esper with the exact same skill-set as Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat. Asides him, there's no other esper in Gendou that interested me that much.
We had a Toaru OC creation group here, but it fell out of favor once Railgun ended.

I once created a guy that can walk through walls, though technically he was more like creating a portal through a solid rather than some complex Quantum theory. Another guy I made was a human lie detector.

But frankly, I was more into creating magicians just because not many people knew how to make them, but the ones that do actually produce some interesting results.
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Old 2012-01-21, 09:40   Link #767
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I myself made a Level 4 Force (i.e. pressure) Esper and an Igniter (works just like Pyrokinesis, but is dependent on the target material). I also had an idea of breaking a Law of Thermodynamics by creating an esper which allows something burning to continue burning as long as her AIM is fed into it (aka Ember Max).

There's so much one can do when it comes to creating esper abilities. Well, the same goes for magic as well, but you need to research on it more than creating esper abilities.
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Old 2012-01-21, 09:46   Link #768
Chaos2Frozen
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You can take more liberties with magic though, the risk is that there's a good chance your Alpha-Beta version would be overpowered.

Esper abilities is the direct opposite, people tend to put too much restriction on themselves because we know all too well the limitations of say creating fire from thin air, or "That's not how Gravity works" lol.
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Old 2012-01-21, 10:33   Link #769
judasmartel
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Agreed. We can make so many non-gamebreaking Esper powers because they run on modern science (rules that we know of), while the magic powers I can think of almost always run on the Rule of Symbolism (rules that not everyone knows of).

But yeah, I think one reason why Mages look like more bland than Espers is that their powers cannot be explained by the laws of Modern Science, and I'll bet a 100 bucks that the Magic side has more game-breaking abilities than the ones in the Science side we can think of.

So, if you can level entire cities down without breaking a sweat, destroy targets without even knowing where they are, and conjure a ridiculously long flaming sword, you are indeed much more overpowered than the guy who can reflect practically anything except for voodoo magic (as there's nothing to reflect, really).
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Old 2012-01-21, 11:41   Link #770
Mr.Kyon
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Originally Posted by judasmartel View Post
Agreed. We can make so many non-gamebreaking Esper powers because they run on modern science (rules that we know of), while the magic powers I can think of almost always run on the Rule of Symbolism (rules that not everyone knows of).

But yeah, I think one reason why Mages look like more bland than Espers is that their powers cannot be explained by the laws of Modern Science, and I'll bet a 100 bucks that the Magic side has more game-breaking abilities than the ones in the Science side we can think of.

So, if you can level entire cities down without breaking a sweat, destroy targets without even knowing where they are, and conjure a ridiculously long flaming sword, you are indeed much more overpowered than the guy who can reflect practically anything except for voodoo magic (as there's nothing to reflect, really).
Um, comparing Fiamma to Accelerator... Right... Whole different class. That's not even a fair fight. I'd put him up against a Saint if he's not awakened, and a big maybe with Ollerus if he is.

Let's not forget the Magic side's history is counted by centuries and the Science side is only decades old. Sorry, but that's a very good investment.
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Old 2012-01-21, 12:26   Link #771
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I remember a forum with magician creation thread which had one based on Saint Martin of Porres who is known for making people fly (despite it was banned by St. Peter) and other story where he makes a cat, a rat and a dog share food from the same place.


Quote:
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Magicians don't have that, they don't have a place like Academy City.
In Vol. 2 Index mentions there are schools of magic and academies.
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Old 2012-01-21, 14:16   Link #772
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
In Vol. 2 Index mentions there are schools of magic and academies.
But it's not a place we actually been to, we don't know how it works and there's no feeling to it.

It doesn't have the 'Hogwarts' feel that you get if you're an Esper living in Academy City. This imaginary place away from outside world.
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Old 2012-01-21, 14:35   Link #773
Miraluka
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Thats because the main characters live on AC -_-
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Old 2012-01-21, 15:06   Link #774
judasmartel
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Thats because the main characters live on AC -_-
Hm. Makes sense. Still baffles me why Espers tend to be more interesting than Mages. Well, that probably is the reason.

So I was right, then. People create Mages that run on the Rule of Symbolism. And it really helps that it doesn't have to be all Christian symbolisms, as GREMLIN mages can attest. In fact, you can derive symbolism powers from practically anything. And I thought fairy tale symbolisms were not harmless.

Yeah, why would they be if they can even bypass the most powerful esper ability?

EDIT: I was supposed to create one here, a Level 3 Esper with the ability name Psychic Blade. It works pretty much the same way as a Laser Blade does.
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Old 2012-01-21, 18:27   Link #775
Chaos2Frozen
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Thats because the main characters live on AC -_-
Which brings me once again back to my original point why people create more Espers than Magicians =_= When you create an Esper, you're easily more a part of the story.

Please read my full post instead of taking one part out of context =_=
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Old 2012-01-21, 19:19   Link #776
Marcus H.
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Quote:
I remember a forum with magician creation thread which had one based on Saint Martin of Porres who is known for making people fly (despite it was banned by St. Peter) and other story where he makes a cat, a rat and a dog share food from the same place.
It doesn't make sense by itself, but it can symbolize rendering enemy units unable to hurt each other whenever they are in a certain zone.

There's just so many tales from the Saints, and even Catholic traditions and practices, that almost anything goes. And that's just on the RCC side.

I remembered creating a magician that has a defensive magic based on Mariang Makiling, a nature spirit from the Philippines that causes people to go lost unless they wear their clothes in reverse. It's a simple concept, but it can also be useful when battling other magicians that rely on their clothing.
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Old 2012-01-21, 19:49   Link #777
Breidaluk
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There's also te tales about saints that were beheaded and still were alive, like Saint Denis( if I remember correctly). Anyway, what really bugs me is that up until now Kamachi only tells that Scientifically created espers can't use magic, so what about the natural ones? The gemstones are different type of espers and there are at most 50 of them in the world.
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Old 2012-01-21, 20:11   Link #778
ovum
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Would assume that gemstones can't use magic either since they still have AIM.
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Old 2012-01-21, 20:39   Link #779
leukrota
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This has been discussed before...

Quoting Index from the first novel:
Quote:
"Magic isn't something that... espers, 'those with talent', can use... Because 'those without talent' wanted to be able to do the same things as 'those with talent', they gave birth to a ceremony and practice called... magic."
"You don't understand? 'Those with talent' and 'those without talent'... run on different circuits... 'Those with talent' cannot use magic designed for 'those without talent'..."
So Gemstones shouldn't be able to use magic either without going haywire.
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Old 2012-01-21, 22:15   Link #780
ellifeedn
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If I understand that quote, "those with talent" can use magic that is designed for them, if that makes any sense.
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