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Old 2012-01-21, 20:12   Link #421
Crimrui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Like hell. Hibiki said one insensitive thing. And despite her general lack of talent, luck, and intelligence, despite what it's costing her, she's trying her best.

Compare and contrast with Tsubasa who, yes, had a terrible thing happen to her. But after two years, she still has to take it out on Hibiki (who isn't responsible for the Noise or for the choices Kanade made) up to and including attempted murder. Which she got away with scott free. It's one thing to feel sorry for her. It's another to forgive all her bullshit.
How is she not responsible? She was starring like a dumb idiot while survivors escaped. She was watching Kanade and Tsubasa fight the Noise for... quite a while. Kanade made her choice of sacrifice when she saw Hibiki's life slipping away. So if she wasn't around Kanade and Tsubasa might have just retreated or something. So saying that Hibiki didn't have ANYTHING to do with any of it is just silly.

Besides, Hibiki is acting like nothing happened. Did she asked about Kanade? Did she thanked her properly for that day? Nothing at all.

And from Tsubasa's eyes. Imagine your friend whom you loved dearly, threw away his life for some stranger in battle. And that stranger came back with your friend's power and says that it will be your friend's substitute with a smile? I would jump on him myself. Even if he was a retard or completely oblivious to everything like Hibiki is. And besides, Tsubasa is, even though she lost one thing that kept her going, is still fighting, day after day.
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Old 2012-01-21, 20:25   Link #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Cloud View Post
How is she not responsible? She was starring like a dumb idiot while survivors escaped.
You mean those who panicked that were killed by the Noise.

Mind you despite Zweiwing's efforts that day it is the largest casualty number in history of a Noise attack.

They were using the concert as an experiment on the Durandal then shit happened.

Hibiki may be on the right track somebody led the Noise, someone on the American side, to attack the concert.

Hibiki was a civilian, a traumatized civilian. Kanade and Tsubasa were soldiers.

Even if Hibiki wasn't there Kanade would've still sang the song of death as they were outnumbered and out of power.

By doing so Kanade saved also Tsubasa.

Tsubasa doesn't blame Hibiki for that day. What sets her off is that she is wearing Kanade's symphogear. Tsubasa still hasn't moved on.
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Old 2012-01-21, 20:42   Link #423
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Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Tsubasa doesn't blame Hibiki for that day. What sets her off is that she is wearing Kanade's symphogear. Tsubasa still hasn't moved on.
That's obvious. No one was arguing that.

Regardless, there are a lot of things wrong in the way the series is dealing with all this. For instance, I don't understand why Hibiki doesn't even ask about the person who sacrificed herself for her sake. She even inherited Kanade's power. Shouldn't she be at least a bit interested in learning about her? That also might help her to understand Tsubasa better.

Also, I don't really get why is everyone so nonchalant at the base. The megane character particularly, is completely out of place in the series. She's supposedly the comic relief but it just doesn't work, specially in light of the situation they're dealing with.

And yeah, I also think Hibiki messed up by saying she would replace Kanade. Not only she's pretty insensitive, but she doesn't know anything about Kanade so she's just talking out of her ass. The proper thing to say would be something like "I show you that I can become a good partner for you". That sort of line would convey the important feelings without sounding like an ass.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2012-01-22 at 02:32.
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Old 2012-01-21, 21:12   Link #424
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
It's called bad writing.
... or self-sarcasm... as a contemporary wise-man-ass said: "If the ridicule is bound to occur, it should be absolute"
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Old 2012-01-21, 22:07   Link #425
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Old 2012-01-22, 01:37   Link #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
And yeah, I also think Hibiki messed up by saying she would replace Kanade. Not only she's pretty insensitive, but she doesn't know anything about Kanade so she's just talking out her ass. The proper thing to say would be something like "I show you that I can become a good partner for you". That sort of line would convey the important feelings without sounding like ass.
Agreed, Hibiki is a sympathetic character and i think she has her good points but she sounds like kind of a jerk on that moment, even if it was unintentional. I'm not saying what Tsubasa is doing is ok but the problem is that nobody on the base seems to care or even notice how messed up the poor girl is. The director comes as just rude and insensitive and certainly nothing good will come from forcing Tsubasa to be partners with Hibiki. A good psychologist(you know, something a secret organization must have, specially when using TEENAGE GIRLS as soldiers) will be helpfull but instead of that we got that weird woman with glasses who spent her time bumbling around and making yuri advances. No wonder Tsubasa is so closed.

A theory more or less plausible taking into consideration the dark tone of the series is that probably the director is fully aware of Tsubasa's pain but is intentionally using that as a motivator to make Tsubasa into an effective fighter(in contrast with her past shy self) and thus intentionally overlooks the girl's suffering and pressing her.
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Last edited by Akiyoshi; 2012-01-22 at 02:32.
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Old 2012-01-22, 02:37   Link #427
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
A theory more or less plausible taking into consideration the dark tone of the series is that probably the director is fully aware of Tsubasa's pain but is intentionally using that as a motivator to make Tsubasa into an effective fighter(in contrast with her past shy self) and thus intentionally overlooks the girl's suffering and pressing her.
That would be kinda cool (in a sort of messed up way) but I really don't think the series is clever enough of that. I think these are just writing issues.
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Old 2012-01-22, 04:51   Link #428
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
They were using the concert as an experiment on the Durandal then shit happened.

Hibiki may be on the right track somebody led the Noise, someone on the American side, to attack the concert.
Or, they're attracted the the Durandal that the "heroes" so thoughtfully gathered and try to awaken without understanding it. (And wouldn't that be a kicker?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
That's obvious. No one was arguing that.

Regardless, there are a lot of things wrong in the way the series is dealing with all this. For instance, I don't understand why Hibiki doesn't even ask about the person who sacrificed herself for her sake. She even inherited Kanade's power. Shouldn't she be at least a bit interested in learning about her? That also might help her to understand Tsubasa better.
It's public knowledge that she's dead. What else is there to know? How can she ask without poking at old wounds?

Quote:
Also, I don't really get why is everyone so nonchalant at the base. The megane character particularly, is completely out of place in the series. She's supposedly the comic relief but it just doesn't work, specially in light of the situation they're dealing with.

And yeah, I also think Hibiki messed up by saying she would replace Kanade. Not only she's pretty insensitive, but she doesn't know anything about Kanade so she's just talking out of her ass. The proper thing to say would be something like "I show you that I can become a good partner for you". That sort of line would convey the important feelings without sounding like an ass.
It's not like it's completely out of nowhere. H: "Let's fight together." -> T: "You can't replace Kanade." -> H: "I can too replace Kanade."

Yes, she should have acknowledged that Kanade was irreplaceable, while still insisting on becoming partners. But honestly, she's being a lot more patient than I would be.

(Also, what's up with having their soldiers lead double or triple lives (student, superhero, idol)? The superhero gig wasn't stressful enough?
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Old 2012-01-22, 05:30   Link #429
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's public knowledge that she's dead. What else is there to know? How can she ask without poking at old wounds?
Problem is that Hibiki is still poking at old wounds(or outright punching at it xDU). Even if it wasn't her intention she really hit a nerve when she cheefully claimed she's going to replace Kanade. Also no attempt of an apologize or even an explanation was given from neither Hibiki or the present staff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yes, she should have acknowledged that Kanade was irreplaceable, while still insisting on becoming partners. But honestly, she's being a lot more patient than I would be.
Hibiki is in no position to argue for now. She's a low rank newbie agent talking openly about replacing a praised deceased comrade for Tsubasa and shouting idealistic hero stuff. If anything, i can understand why Tsubasa is so pissed off by such attitude. The fact that no one else seems to give a heck about that only enphasizes the reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
(Also, what's up with having their soldiers lead double or triple lives (student, superhero, idol)? The superhero gig wasn't stressful enough?
The idol part of their lives i guess have something to do with their powers don't you think? Probably it has something to do on how good you're at singing xD
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Old 2012-01-22, 05:49   Link #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's public knowledge that she's dead. What else is there to know? How can she ask without poking at old wounds?
She doesn't need to ask Tsubasa specifically. She could just ask someone else at the base, so poking old wounds shouldn't be a problem. Besides, whether she asks or not is besides the point. The issue is that she doesn't even show interest or curiosity about her, which seems odd considering she saved her life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yes, she should have acknowledged that Kanade was irreplaceable, while still insisting on becoming partners. But honestly, she's being a lot more patient than I would be.
Well, you can tell no one at the base gives a damn about Tsubasa's feelings, and if it was always like that since Kanade died then her attitude makes perfect sense since she would have deal with her pain all on her own (and it's obvious she can't do it alone). So being patient isn't the issue. Hibiki just needs to show that she cares. Nobody else does, so it's up to her.

At any rate, she needs to put a little more thoughts into what she says, so to avoid screwing up again.
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Old 2012-01-22, 05:59   Link #431
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Da boss should have briefed Hibiki to not bring up Kanade in talks, no matter what.
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Old 2012-01-22, 05:59   Link #432
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akiyoshi View Post
Problem is that Hibiki is still poking at old wounds(or outright punching at it xDU). Even if it wasn't her intention she really hit a nerve when she cheefully claimed she's going to replace Kanade. Also no attempt of an apologize or even an explanation was given from neither Hibiki or the present staff.
Yeah, I don't remember Tsubasa apologizing for attempted murder either. You'd think that'd be the greater offense.



Quote:
Hibiki is in no position to argue for now. She's a low rank newbie agent talking openly about replacing a praised deceased comrade for Tsubasa and shouting idealistic hero stuff. If anything, i can understand why Tsubasa is so pissed off by such attitude. The fact that no one else seems to give a heck about that only enphasizes the reaction.
She's one of two agents who can effectively combat Noise. Since she's learning on the job, she should insist on having a more experienced soldier guide her, or her life might just be wasted.

Tsubasa's the one who's wrong there. She claims she's an emotionless weapon, as if that excused everything, but she keeps throwing tantrums and disobeying orders. And yes, she's survived two years without someone to watch her back, but is that any reason to reject one now?

"Not giving a heck" is criminal, not because poor little Tsubasa has a terrible life, but because she's a deadly combination of powerful, unstable, and indispensable.

Quote:
The idol part of their lives i guess have something to do with their powers don't you think? Probably it has something to do on how good you're at singing xD
There's justification for singing training. Not for all the other stuff. (Seriously, with everything that's going on, they want to send Tsubasa abroad?)
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Old 2012-01-22, 06:17   Link #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post

Even if Hibiki wasn't there Kanade would've still sang the song of death as they were outnumbered and out of power.

By doing so Kanade saved also Tsubasa.
You don't know that. By carefully watching episode one you clearly see that Kanade sang that song when she was emotionally struck by the Hibiki's near death state. Tsubasa was still alright and kicking ass, only Kanade was running out of power. It's more likely that Kanade didn't want to endanger Hibiki any longer and did what she did. As I stated before, they would have retreated or something like that. As to why Kanade was emotionally struck by one total stranger when even younger people died at that very place... well, that's another story. Something to do with being main character I guess...

Besides, all this above still doesn't change the fact that Hibiki is being insensitive towards Tsubasa's feelings. Worst of all is that I can see Tsubasa accepting Hibiki thanks to the usual anime reasoning which goes like ''Beat me and I'll see your determination, weather your opinion has any logic is beside the point, but I'll accept it if you win''.
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Old 2012-01-22, 06:18   Link #434
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Old 2012-01-22, 06:28   Link #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Yeah, I don't remember Tsubasa apologizing for attempted murder either. You'd think that'd be the greater offense.
Don't you get it? Tsubasa's life is practically ruined. Her friend, which was the only thing that gave her emotional support, that meant ''life'' for her, is dead. Hibiki's existence was involved into one person ending her life and another one's being ruined. If she had any common sense she would apologize for involvement as she is alive thanks to them. Tsubasa's action may not be justified to you, but it is perfectly understandable. But the fact that Hibiki doesn't ask why Tsuabasa attacked her proves her further ignorance. And what about those guys at the base? None is showing understanding towards Tsubasa. If they acted like that when Kanade died and didn't show any support, then it's a wonder that Tsubasa is sane at all.
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Old 2012-01-22, 06:40   Link #436
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Originally Posted by Crimson Cloud View Post
You don't know that. By carefully watching episode one you clearly see that Kanade sang that song when she was emotionally struck by the Hibiki's near death state. Tsubasa was still alright and kicking ass, only Kanade was running out of power. It's more likely that Kanade didn't want to endanger Hibiki any longer and did what she did. As I stated before, they would have retreated or something like that. As to why Kanade was emotionally struck by one total stranger when even younger people died at that very place... well, that's another story. Something to do with being main character I guess...
Retreated where? Their power source is compromised. Surrounded by hundreds of Noise. Their support staff dead and injured in the rubble under them.

Kanede knew if she didn't sing that song they would all die. With her death at least everyone else survives.
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Old 2012-01-22, 08:12   Link #437
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Crimson Cloud View Post
Don't you get it? Tsubasa's life is practically ruined. Her friend, which was the only thing that gave her emotional support, that meant ''life'' for her, is dead.
Lots of people lose loved ones. It doesn't excuse her attitude. It explains it to a point, but it's not a free pass for doing whatever she wants.

Quote:
Hibiki's existence was involved into one person ending her life and another one's being ruined. If she had any common sense she would apologize for involvement as she is alive thanks to them.
What did she do wrong, that she needs to apologize for? She's shown herself to be admiring and thankful - Tsubasa's the one who's rejected her. Yes, Hibiki's painful reminder of Kanade. But that's really Tsubasa's problem, which she's taking out on everyone around her.

Quote:
Tsubasa's action may not be justified to you, but it is perfectly understandable. But the fact that Hibiki doesn't ask why Tsuabasa attacked her proves her further ignorance. And what about those guys at the base? None is showing understanding towards Tsubasa. If they acted like that when Kanade died and didn't show any support, then it's a wonder that Tsubasa is sane at all.
They already let her do pretty much do whatever she wants, and treat everyone like dirt. What she needs isn't (more) people finding excuses for her.
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Old 2012-01-22, 08:45   Link #438
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lol. I want a fucking angsty drama where Tsubasa goes over to the dark side and I dunno threatens Miku or something so then Hibiki loses her shit and goes full berserker mode and it just all falls to chaos with Tsubasa and Hibiki trying to kill each other. Afterwards, the durandal/whatever/final boss thing suddenly awakens/appears and retardedly powerful and threatens to destroy the entire world. Then, in a last moment of clarity Kanade's spirit somehow appears to Tsubasa and reminds her of what is right to the world and Tsubasa sacrifices herself to vitally wound the boss monster. Then it falls to Hibiki to finish it off and finally after some horrible struggle she manages to do it and Miku is miraculously alive. Miku and Hibiki then proceed to become a hot beautiful lesbian couple who live on reconstructing a broken world in memory of Tsubasa and Kanade. Or something like that. The end.

I can see where both sides are coming from in criticising Tsubasa or Hibiki and stuff but lol, honestly I can't dislike either character. This show is simply too ripe for drama and angst, and for that to happen it is pretty much requisite for them both to be flawed characters. I'll accept whatever shit they do so long as their feelings are into it. Symphogear, deliver, please. Just go all out.
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Old 2012-01-22, 09:10   Link #439
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Miku and Hibiki then proceed to become a hot beautiful lesbian couple who live on reconstructing a broken world in memory of Tsubasa and Kanade. Or something like that. The end.
I think you forgot to take into account the first scene of the anime,that makes a happy lesbian ending a no go,unless that scene was just a troll.
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Old 2012-01-22, 09:26   Link #440
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I wonder how many Relics we'll see....

Zweiwing are obviously not the only players on the field....what chances the real enemy is human?
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