2012-01-22, 04:33 | Link #2306 | |
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From what I saw they stop Orb even though they have they have advantage (second fight) In other word they will try to stop the war between Orb Vs Zaft regardless of the winner. ( Don't forget that AA have people from Planet and EA and Orb.) Also about Kira killing policy, from what I understand is that he would rather not to kill his enemy, but that doesn't mean he will not kill at all. (Yeah he ignore shine... Maybe because he was after his life but Kira did kill Stella when she was randomly massacring civilians and Rau after he murder Flly.) |
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2012-01-22, 07:40 | Link #2307 | |
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Alrighty..... How many ORB forces personal has kira directly killed? I can think of huge number of ZERO... How many ZAFT personal has kira killed directly? I can safely say more than zero. Conclusion using this data that i can easily presume that ORB personal safety have priority over ZAFT when neutralizing measures are taken in effect. |
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2012-01-22, 08:18 | Link #2308 | |
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ZAFT = 0 Yeah he killed people from Zaft/EA/Orb in Destiny but not directly. (Just because he only hit their camera doesn't mean that they are 100% safe, same with Minerva main weapon.) EA = 1 (Stella). |
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2012-01-22, 08:56 | Link #2309 |
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Your playing with semantics to favor your point.
Life fact: If you are the one directly by your actions caused death(s) you are the one directly responsible. In this case using the Tannhauser example we saw kira directly firing at the gun which caused secondary explosions killing crew and later on illustrated by body bags. So yes Kira is in fact directly responsible for killing ZAFT personal. Last edited by winter45; 2012-01-22 at 09:21. |
2012-01-22, 09:31 | Link #2310 | |
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(Kira only fire at Tannhauser, anyone who was near it die because of the Tannhauser explosion and not because of Kira weapon.) |
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2012-01-22, 12:03 | Link #2311 |
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you know, if you shoot a giant cannon with a beam weapon it will explode and it will kill people, im sure Kira knew that when he shot it, and im sure he would take responsibility if someone confronted him about it.
Kira killed people in Destiny and in Seed, does it matter if they are EA,Zaft or ORB? i don't see what the big deal is, direct kills or indirect kills, sure, if he randomly shot a Murasame and it crashed into a nearby village, that would be sad and unfortunate, but that didnt happen @ Gundamx There is a difference in kicking a ball and heading out in a 20'ish meter tall giant robot of destruction. |
2012-01-22, 12:55 | Link #2312 | |||
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Killing someone with gun same as killing someone with gun(dam). Quote:
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What happen was that he need to stop Tannhauser so he shoot it but unlike AA main cannon there was people near it so they died when it exploded. In short Direct kill = Stella, (in seed) Raul, Nicol, Miguel...etc Indirect kill = people who was near Tannhauser, people who got their mobile suit disables (since they don't 100% surviving rate), and people who was near their mother ship engine/cannon. |
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2012-01-22, 13:38 | Link #2313 | |||
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2012-01-22, 14:06 | Link #2314 | ||||
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2012-01-22, 14:20 | Link #2315 | |
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Kira shot down lots of Murasames, he (or was it the archangel?) shot at the water, flipping entire boats over, i'm sure a few people drowned there.
as i said before, he has shot down people on all sides ending up killing them in one way or another, what i don't understand is why the two of you are bickering about direct or indirect kills, your both agreeing he killed people, yet your both just arguing over whos opinion is right. the reason Kira shot the Tannhauser was because it would obliterate the Orb/Ea fleet right infront of it, by killing a few he managed to save many, and Cagalli was crying, so nothing else mattered either way Quote:
Example: Random grunt 1 in a Windam shoots with his beam rifle into the ground,it causes a explosion, making a hole in the ground. Random grunt 2 shoots with his sidearm pistol into the ground, you have a small bullet hole in the ground, but it doesnt cause a explosion. So, let's assume random grunt 1 targets one Mobile suit and shoots, with the resulting explosion killing 5 ~ more grunts that's around his intended target Random grunt 2 targets someone with his sidearm pistol and shoots, killing his intended target See the difference? you can't compare a beam rifle to a regular gun, they don't work the same way, that's why i said a airstrike would be a better comparision than a gun. |
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2012-01-22, 14:51 | Link #2316 | ||
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( Again, his proof was Kira killing more ZAFt soldiers (directly), so to remove that proof (even though it was not rational) my answer was that Kira didn't directly kill ZAFT soldier than Orb but indirectly = that's another story. So why are you only quoting me? Who was answering? Shouldn't you aim your words at the one who was asking? Quote:
Are you sure that you aren't mistaking normal beam gun ( the one freedom use) with big beam gun? ( You know, like Hyper Impulse Beam Cannon). Last edited by Gundamx; 2012-01-22 at 15:01. |
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2012-01-22, 15:02 | Link #2317 | ||
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2012-01-22, 15:53 | Link #2318 |
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In terms of the direct/indirect argument and the whole ball into wall and rock example, it would depend...
If you KNEW there was someone else behind that wall that the rock would more than likely hit and you performed the action anyway, then yes, that would be direct murder and not manslaughter. Heck, even if you didn't know someone else was behind the wall, the fact that you kicked the ball into the wall anyway with no regards for the consequences would be murder in itself because of the resulting death. It would be manslaughter if you had no clue at all that there was someone behind that wall and the rock happened to kill them, but you had no intention of doing so. Like if you simply kicked the ball into the wall out of anger and not knowing any better. Of course, other circumstances and rules of the law could play parts too, but that's the generalized idea. In this case, it would be direct murder. Given Kira's overall experience from SEED and whatnot, he HAD to know that there were people either in the Tannhauser manning it directly or at the very least people nearby that would be killed or gravely injured if he were to destroy it, yet he did it anyway and it resulted in those deaths. And who is to say that EVERYONE Kira disabled didn't end up dying somehow? I highly doubt that every single individual MS, especially on the large battlefields, that he, Athrun, and others may have disabled all had their pilots survive. Who is to say that some of those MS didn't eventually explode off-screen from the damage they took and killed the pilot anyway? Various series have shown that some MS can take various degrees of damage, but not be destroyed immediately, but after a short time. One glaring example being 0083 with Burning's GM Custom from 1 seemingly negligible bullet hole in its side causing an explosion that killed Burning himself and then, a few seconds later, completely destroying the GM Custom. Or what if whatever they hit and disabled/knocked-off/etc ended up causing further damage that disabled things like life support systems or other necessary systems to keep the pilot alive, if not destroying the MS outright? Or what if the fact that they were left floating and disabled in the middle of the battlefield left them easy targets to be picked off by other people if not hit by stray friendly fire or something? Sure, we may not have been shown it, but the chances of any of those things happening in such battles were all very real in those types of situations. Even those NOT disabled could end up killed during the chaos and confusion like we saw with Heine getting taken out by Stellar.
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2012-01-22, 18:36 | Link #2319 | |
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At best, you might have an incident like Heine's death, but he was killed because he didn't pay attention to Stella's action, not because Kira cut the Gouf's arm. Even Auel, whose Abyss had its primary thrusters destroyed, and Athrun, whose Saviour was cut in several parts, could survive. And most mobile suits that Kira fired at would have had less damages than those two did. Especially by the time of Destiny, when most mobile suits had sustained flight capability. |
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2012-01-22, 19:41 | Link #2320 | |
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Monster and I concluded that when it comes to ORB Forces, Cagalli would be biased. After all she is the part of the leadership of ORB, what kind of leader would she be if she has no interest of her forces survival. @RX-78GP04G Gerbera CE verse has a tendency to break laws of physics or real battle dynamics. Which to me is a convenient approach to setup characters personalities to some extent and restrict the real horrors of war. Last edited by winter45; 2012-01-22 at 20:02. |
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