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Old 2012-01-22, 10:00   Link #441
Crimrui
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Lots of people lose loved ones. It doesn't excuse her attitude. It explains it to a point, but it's not a free pass for doing whatever she wants.
That is an unfair way of thinking. Not every weight is the same. It depends on the personality of a character and what loved one died. It can also depend if you had someone else to rely on and to give you emotional support through tough times. Tsubasa didn't had that, by the looks of things. Unless it is stated otherwise. Besides, she isn't doing whatever she wants. A bit on a wild side, but she is still fighting.

Quote:
What did she do wrong, that she needs to apologize for? She's shown herself to be admiring and thankful - Tsubasa's the one who's rejected her. Yes, Hibiki's painful reminder of Kanade. But that's really Tsubasa's problem, which she's taking out on everyone around her.
So you're saying that she is alive by nobody's interference? And she is thankful? She is dealing with a situation rather well and is prepared to help out, but she is still insensitive towards whole situation. Show me on what occasion did she cared about Tsubasa's feelings and ask her about her partner? From what I've seen it on the last scene of episode 3, she yelled something like '' I have someone to protect too... so..'' The only thing I see from that is Hibiki's selfishness. She wants to show Tsubasa her determination without ever questioning and asking for Tsubasa's own.

Quote:
They already let her do pretty much do whatever she wants, and treat everyone like dirt. What she needs isn't (more) people finding excuses for her.
And are others treating Tsubasa any better? From what I see their nonchalant personality, I'd say they deserve it. They don't show respect that she didn't get over her loved one's death. And to say that she treats everyone like dirt is too much. From what I see it she just doesn't want to communicate with them any more then she needs to.
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Old 2012-01-22, 10:04   Link #442
ReddyRedWolf
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@Crimson Cloud

Hibiki was a nobody. Tsubasa didn't even know she was there during the attack. For two years she didn't know Hibiki's existence. That itself ruins your theory she blames Hibiki for Kanade's death.

Tsubasa was surprised the Gungir was active while Kanade is still dead. It was explained a shrapnel that embedded at Hibiki's heart allows her to summon Kanade's symphogear.

Tsubasa doesn't want to accept her. To do so in her eyes means Kanade is replaceable.
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Old 2012-01-22, 11:36   Link #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Hibiki was a nobody. Tsubasa didn't even know she was there during the attack. For two years she didn't know Hibiki's existence. That itself ruins your theory she blames Hibiki for Kanade's death.

Tsubasa was surprised the Gungir was active while Kanade is still dead. It was explained a shrapnel that embedded at Hibiki's heart allows her to summon Kanade's symphogear.
Shrapnel that embed Hibiki's heart means that she had to be somewhere close by for that to happen. And it couldn't happened any other way then THAT day when Kanade died. If Tsubasa didn't tie that together (especially if she never saw Hibiki during that incident) then her anger at Hibiki is indeed unjustified. Still... that doesn't change the fact that Hibiki was being insensitive towards Tsubasa's feelings.

But aren't we all making assumptions and theories? Unless the reasons come out directly from Tsubasa's mouth we are just throwing ''point of view'' opinions.
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Old 2012-01-22, 12:25   Link #444
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The exploding sound of fireworks / firecrackers made me used about a hour to finish this episode....

Spoiler for Episode 3:
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Old 2012-01-22, 12:37   Link #445
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The writers are novices, but they don't want to be given a break or use that as an excuse.

..... I want to know how it is so far.
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Old 2012-01-22, 12:53   Link #446
Akiyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Lots of people lose loved ones. It doesn't excuse her attitude. It explains it to a point, but it's not a free pass for doing whatever she wants.
Doing whatever she wants? Last time i checked she's still risking her life on the battlefield, she's still singing to a crowd and pretty much still working under the orders of cold and uncaring people. I'm pretty sure that Tsubasa at times wants to escape from all that crap but she does it? Heck no!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
What did she do wrong, that she needs to apologize for? She's shown herself to be admiring and thankful - Tsubasa's the one who's rejected her. Yes, Hibiki's painful reminder of Kanade. But that's really Tsubasa's problem, which she's taking out on everyone around her.
That's besides the point. Nobody is saying Tsubasa's attack on Hibiki was right but it's very understandable. Hibiki is indeed admirng and thankfull but also selfish and lacking of common sense which is a really bad combination with Tsubasa's issues. Both are wrong on their doings but the staff is even mroe wrong for being so blind to attend the situation correctly. The director's role would be more believable if, after scorning Tsubasa he had a talk with her trying to make the girl understand why Hibiki is important but no. He just slaps her in the wrist and that's all, they continue to do their comedic stuff with Hibiki. They're not only are injuring Tsuabsa but are also endangering Hibiki in the process by burying any chances of good companionship between the two to develope in a healty way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
They already let her do pretty much do whatever she wants, and treat everyone like dirt. What she needs isn't (more) people finding excuses for her.
As Crimson Cloud says, she rarely treats "everyone" like dirt. She's a bit cold but professional and educate most of the time. Hibiki is the only one who pulls her emotional trigger. The fact that this is painfully obvious and the staff didn't move a single finger to solve this is what pisses me off xDU.
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Old 2012-01-22, 12:53   Link #447
xizro345
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Quote:
..... I want to know how it is so far.
I personally like it, but I suppose for reasons different from most people...
Also whatever people think about Kanade in episode 1, I think the show already hit the mark if people keep discussing about it...
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Old 2012-01-22, 13:05   Link #448
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Cloud View Post

But aren't we all making assumptions and theories? Unless the reasons come out directly from Tsubasa's mouth we are just throwing ''point of view'' opinions.
You're the one who wasn't paying attention to episode 2's dialogue. Hibiki thanked Tsubasa for saving her again for the second time. Tsubasa had no idea what that meant.

Later she learns pieces of Kanade's relic are inside Hibiki. This reminds her how powerless she was to save Kanade.

Tsubasa pretty much has survivor guilt. Hibiki on the other hand was taught to be a survivor meeting Kanade. She is willing to fight Noise not only to protect those she loves but pay back those two whom she owes her life.
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Old 2012-01-22, 13:09   Link #449
Kismet-chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Cloud View Post
So you're saying that she is alive by nobody's interference? And she is thankful? She is dealing with a situation rather well and is prepared to help out, but she is still insensitive towards whole situation. Show me on what occasion did she cared about Tsubasa's feelings and ask her about her partner? From what I've seen it on the last scene of episode 3, she yelled something like '' I have someone to protect too... so..'' The only thing I see from that is Hibiki's selfishness. She wants to show Tsubasa her determination without ever questioning and asking for Tsubasa's own.

And are others treating Tsubasa any better? From what I see their nonchalant personality, I'd say they deserve it. They don't show respect that she didn't get over her loved one's death. And to say that she treats everyone like dirt is too much. From what I see it she just doesn't want to communicate with them any more then she needs to.
My thoughts exactly. I can see things from both Tsubasa and Hibiki's points of view and I understand where they are both coming from, but Tsubasa's attitude is a lot more justified than Hibiki's, imo.

It is just too rude and selfish that she keeps putting HER problems, HER discomfort, and the inconveniences that SHE is experiencing above other people.

"Aww, man. Essays are hard. How will I ever balance school with fighting the Noise?"
How do you think Tsubasa has had it juggling a singing career, fighting Noise, and her intense grief (and partial self-blame) for Kanade's death for two years?

"I have someone to protect, too!"
This is literally the 2nd stupidest thing that came out of Hibiki's mouth, besides the "Kanade replacement" comment.

"Wah, wah, wah, I wanted to go see the shooting stars with Miku! Rawr! Hibiki SMASH!"
Um, what about Tsubasa, who won't be seeing anything beautiful with person she cared about most because she freaking died in her arms?
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Old 2012-01-22, 13:25   Link #450
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Cloud View Post
That is an unfair way of thinking. Not every weight is the same. It depends on the personality of a character and what loved one died. It can also depend if you had someone else to rely on and to give you emotional support through tough times. Tsubasa didn't had that, by the looks of things.
Possibly because she pushed everyone away. Doesn't matter, though. Her grief is, first and foremost, her problem. She isn't dealing with it.

Again, it's not that I don't acknowlege she has reason for being sad or angry. It's not that I don't think she lacks legitimate grievances with the organization. It's not even that I don't feel sorry for her. What I protest is the attitude that, because of all that, she can do no wrong and whatever she does to Hibiki, Hibiki had it coming. It's like catching a rapist and letting him go because he had a traumatic childhood and his victim dressed a bit sexy.

Quote:
Unless it is stated otherwise. Besides, she isn't doing whatever she wants. A bit on a wild side, but she is still fighting.
She obviously has her own axe to grind with the Noise. She doesn't seem to care much about anything else.

It's better than not fighting at all, of course.

Quote:
So you're saying that she is alive by nobody's interference?
She had her life saved. It's not the same as having done something wrong.

Quote:
And she is thankful?
Aside from the general hero worship, one of the first thing she did was tell Tsubasa they saved her life and bow to her in thanks.

Quote:
She is dealing with a situation rather well and is prepared to help out, but she is still insensitive towards whole situation. Show me on what occasion did she cared about Tsubasa's feelings and ask her about her partner? From what I've seen it on the last scene of episode 3, she yelled something like '' I have someone to protect too... so..'' The only thing I see from that is Hibiki's selfishness. She wants to show Tsubasa her determination without ever questioning and asking for Tsubasa's own.
Because it's not her role to question Tsubasa. What is she, her boss?


Quote:
And are others treating Tsubasa any better? From what I see their nonchalant personality, I'd say they deserve it. They don't show respect that she didn't get over her loved one's death.
And why would they? Well, OK, because they really, really need her, but that reason could just as well be used to excuse her if she'd developped a puppy kicking habit.

Tsubasa's freak outs are irrational, and yes, they're ignored. But what she really needs is to be made to get over it, not validation.
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Old 2012-01-22, 13:31   Link #451
Akiyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Tsubasa's freak outs are irrational, and yes, they're ignored. But what she really needs is to be made to get over it, not validation.
Yet they don't do a thing to achieve that solution. Tsubasa really needs help and all the other people on the organization do is turn their heads and look at something else until the moment to send her to the battlefield comes.
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Old 2012-01-22, 19:01   Link #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
What I protest is the attitude that, because of all that, she can do no wrong and whatever she does to Hibiki, Hibiki had it coming. It's like catching a rapist and letting him go because he had a traumatic childhood and his victim dressed a bit sexy.
I'm not entirely biased myself, even though I understand Tsubasa and feel for her, all of her actions are not to my liking ether. Killing Hibiki is definitely taking it too far.

Quote:
She had her life saved. It's not the same as having done something wrong.
Her existence at that place led to certain chain of events. An indirect involvement is still something you should acknowledge. She doesn't need to beg for forgiveness, but you don't approach to a person, whose friend died protecting you, with a smile ether.

Quote:
Aside from the general hero worship, one of the first thing she did was tell Tsubasa they saved her life and bow to her in thanks.
Yet, Kanade was never brought into that conversation. If she forgot Kanade, then I would let it go, but she remember that sentence ''Don't give up on your life''. And don't you wanna know about the powers of a person you inherited? That is a point of Hibiki's ignorance. Unless she truly does not remember or it's some sort of bad writing, in which case, this discussion is pointless. ^^

Quote:
And why would they? Well, OK, because they really, really need her, but that reason could just as well be used to excuse her if she'd developed a puppy kicking habit.
Tsubasa's freak outs are irrational, and yes, they're ignored. But what she really needs is to be made to get over it, not validation.
She said it herself, she is a blade, she has no intention in getting over it. That would give you an image that she pretty much doesn't care about anything else much, you said it yourself. So she goes of her own and fights the way she wants. Why? Well, she spend a lot of time fighting so she is adjusted to how everything works, and maybe over time she just became cocky?
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Old 2012-01-22, 21:52   Link #453
klare
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the commander looks stronger than the girls... he doesnt fight the noise because he cant sing?

lesson learned: do not interrupt when a girl wants to watch shooting stars

the silver haired girl must be sent by the evil americans, have hopes on her since both Tsubasa and Hibiki are not likable characters, so far
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Old 2012-01-22, 22:09   Link #454
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the commander looks stronger than the girls... he doesnt fight the noise because he cant sing?
Cause its useless he'll get carbonized like everybody else.
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Old 2012-01-22, 23:56   Link #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Cause its useless he'll get carbonized like everybody else.
Yeah, sadly that great strength is only useful to keeping the girls from going overboard. You know like attacking each other . Suppose if he could touch them we'd have to change the title of the series since he'd overshadow everyone .

Right now cooperation is going to be pretty tough to manage. Right now all they are going to do is act separately which is fine until they run into something neither can handle alone.

Surprising how smoothly Hibiki goes in and out of that berserk mode. Doesn't even seem to notice herself either. That or she isn't bothered by it.
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Old 2012-01-22, 23:58   Link #456
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
Yeah, sadly that great strength is only useful to keeping the girls from going overboard. You know like attacking each other . Suppose if he could touch them we'd have to change the title of the series since he'd overshadow everyone .

Right now cooperation is going to be pretty tough to manage. Right now all they are going to do is act separately which is fine until they run into something neither can handle alone.

Surprising how smoothly Hibiki goes in and out of that berserk mode. Doesn't even seem to notice herself either. That or she isn't bothered by it.
You know if they actually perfect Durandal...he may be able to wield it....
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Old 2012-01-23, 01:48   Link #457
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Crimson Cloud View Post
She said it herself, she is a blade, she has no intention in getting over it.
She'd be a lot easier to work with if she was truly emotionless and disciplined.

Also, that's why I said she needs to be "made" to get over it. Not "helped" to get over it.
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Old 2012-01-23, 04:05   Link #458
Marcus H.
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If by some badass twist of fate Durandal ends up in the commander and curbstomps everyone — even the other Symphogears...

Spoiler for crazy theory:
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Old 2012-01-23, 05:03   Link #459
Akiyoshi
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Also, that's why I said she needs to be "made" to get over it. Not "helped" to get over it.
I don't catch what you refer to with being "made". Pressing and beating the poor girl won't make her overcome her problems, as i've said Tsubasa needs psychological assistance and emotional support badly. But then again, she becoming a ruthless soldier willing to nonchantaly risk her life and follow orders is probably what the organization only wants and ignore the poor girl on purpouse.
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Old 2012-01-23, 05:58   Link #460
jcdietz03
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* Once comparison I haven't seen made is Noise to "The Spirits" [monsters] from Final Fantasy Spirits Within. These monsters are unaffected by normal attacks but can still hurt humans.
* However, noise attacks can damage buildings (spirits couldn't)
* We see new behavior from Noise in Episode 3. We see the purple noise running away from pursuing Hibiki. I'd run too, but I didn't think noise were that intelligent. They seemed more like zombies in previous episodes.
* No explanation for where monsters get their name "Noise." There's only been screams (like typical fantasy monsters) from them so far.

Really enjoying this show so far
* Good action scenes, though our heroines never seem like they're in any real danger (other than opening scene). It's more about whether or not they can protect people the noise are attacking.
* Good character design for Kanade & Tsubasa (especially their Symphogears)

* Hibiki is a good replacement for Kanade. She will probably get even better as time goes on. She does a good job of being the Red Oni (i.e., energetic) to Tsubasa's blue (i.e., depressed/reserved).

* I think the writers are doing a fine job. We're already through Episode 3 with no villain revealed, so the writers have already done a nice job of setting us up for The Reveal of the villain. It could definitely be someone we think is on the good side which would be a nice surprise.

* Please check out Replacement Scrappy at TVTropes. It describes Hibiki perfectly.

Random Guessing:
Candidates for Villain: (this show is missing a villain)
- "Those dirty dirty Americans"
- Armor girl
- Miku
- Ryouko Sakura (she invented Symphogear; who knows what else she's capable of)

Miku dies later because Hibiki couldn't protect her
Hibiki dies later and passes her powers to Miku
Tsubasa dies later and passes her powers to Miku
There will be more than the three Symphogears shown so far: possibly one for Miku and possibly one for Ryouko.
Everyone's powers become one to defeat the final enemy.
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