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Old 2012-01-24, 00:37   Link #2081
Sound of Azure
...Is that so?
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Queensland, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Why would anyone want that?

That'd be like Far Cry 2 where it took forever to get from one spot to another.
For immersion, probably. I tend to play these games normally at first, then make it as challenging as I can (no fast travel, high difficulty, more lethality, etc). There's something to be said about actually needing to make your way back and forth.

I'd personally just disable the fast travel, but I can see the appeal of having it as an emergency ability with a cost.
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Old 2012-01-24, 01:29   Link #2082
Nightengale
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Well, here's a dumb idea to incorporate fast-travel + immersion.

- Only available after dragons spawn.
- Activating fast-travel activates a dragon spawning near your location.
- Scripted and modded to somehow get into an aerial fight where you fight the dragon latched to him while he's flying. Think Shadow of Colossus, except he's flying and getting thrown off = death.
- You land nearby where you intended to fast travel.
- Cannot be used continuously ( once a week cooldown? ) and for short distances.
- Difficulty of scripted aerial dragon fight scales with both your level + how many times you use it. The more you use it, the harder it gets even if your level is low.
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Old 2012-01-24, 02:00   Link #2083
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound of Azure View Post
For immersion, probably. I tend to play these games normally at first, then make it as challenging as I can (no fast travel, high difficulty, more lethality, etc). There's something to be said about actually needing to make your way back and forth.

I'd personally just disable the fast travel, but I can see the appeal of having it as an emergency ability with a cost.
In old school RPGs, there is always some sort of fast travel option after you reached the end game. Either magic teleport spells or airships. The reason they exist is the same as with Skyrim; once you explored one area, backtracking it would no longer be fun. Skyrim's restriction that you need to be somewhere previously in order to fast-travel there isn't that excessive or restrictive.

In JRPGs, they are called "warp" spells.

The key is to avoid boredom. If you aren't going to find anything new by walking, why walk?
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Old 2012-01-24, 15:06   Link #2084
C.A.
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I like to walk, I only use fast travel when I need to empty my inventory.

If you like to walk, you'll want to use Aura Whisper, it reveals a lot of what is going on in the wilderness. It allows you to find npcs to interact with and makes walking trips more enjoyable.
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Old 2012-01-24, 18:20   Link #2085
Tong
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What's the point of walking when I can warp? I know I can pretty much beat everyone on my way and save insane amounts of mental health and time.
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Old 2012-01-24, 18:56   Link #2086
C.A.
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Well, if you're playing Skyrim just for battles, there are much better games for that and with much more challenge. Also its not a game designed to be played and completed, the reason it has an infinite quest generator, the radiant quest system, is to let people immerse and interact with the world.

When you walk, that's when you can encounter interesting stuff such as the headless horseman, farmer offering a cow to the giants, giants walking a cow, mobs fighting, Stormcloaks vs Imperials, hunters in hot springs, farmers running from dragons, skooma dealers, 3 merry men offering some mead, thief running away from victim, fire vs ice mages, etc.

From what I've seen so far from people complaining that the game is boring, the one thing they have in common is that they are just rushing through the game just killing stuff and fast travelling.
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I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

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Old 2012-01-24, 21:38   Link #2087
Urzu 7
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Join Date: Apr 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
I like to walk, I only use fast travel when I need to empty my inventory.

If you like to walk, you'll want to use Aura Whisper, it reveals a lot of what is going on in the wilderness. It allows you to find npcs to interact with and makes walking trips more enjoyable.
What is aura whisper?
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Old 2012-01-24, 22:05   Link #2088
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Well, if you're playing Skyrim just for battles, there are much better games for that and with much more challenge. Also its not a game designed to be played and completed, the reason it has an infinite quest generator, the radiant quest system, is to let people immerse and interact with the world.

When you walk, that's when you can encounter interesting stuff such as the headless horseman, farmer offering a cow to the giants, giants walking a cow, mobs fighting, Stormcloaks vs Imperials, hunters in hot springs, farmers running from dragons, skooma dealers, 3 merry men offering some mead, thief running away from victim, fire vs ice mages, etc.

From what I've seen so far from people complaining that the game is boring, the one thing they have in common is that they are just rushing through the game just killing stuff and fast travelling.
You are talking about going somewhere for the FIRST time. Random encounters only happen once per area, after that there is nothing other than enemy spawns.

Straw man argument, really. You are arguing that I shouldn't be in a hurry to finish the game. I am arguing that I don't want to waste time travelling on roads where I have already cleared the event counters.

Walking isn't bring, but walking when you already walked the same path 30 times IS boring when there is no longer anything new.
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Old 2012-01-24, 22:40   Link #2089
Stiletto
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
What is aura whisper?
A shout. It shows any living creature/npc with a luminscent glow.
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Old 2012-01-25, 04:14   Link #2090
Fahd
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Join Date: Aug 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
When you walk, that's when you can encounter interesting stuff such as the headless horseman, farmer offering a cow to the giants, giants walking a cow, mobs fighting, Stormcloaks vs Imperials, hunters in hot springs, farmers running from dragons, skooma dealers, 3 merry men offering some mead, thief running away from victim, fire vs ice mages, etc.
If there's one reason you should wander around Skyrim it's so that you might run into M'aiq the Liar (link with dialogue spoilers), and benefit from his wisdom .
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Old 2012-01-25, 04:32   Link #2091
Sound of Azure
...Is that so?
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
In old school RPGs, there is always some sort of fast travel option after you reached the end game. Either magic teleport spells or airships. The reason they exist is the same as with Skyrim; once you explored one area, backtracking it would no longer be fun. Skyrim's restriction that you need to be somewhere previously in order to fast-travel there isn't that excessive or restrictive.

In JRPGs, they are called "warp" spells.

The key is to avoid boredom. If you aren't going to find anything new by walking, why walk?
Yeah, I see the appeal, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the existing system. I probably just have a higher tolerance for "boring" stuff than some others.

Why walk? For me, it adds to the sense of being in the world. That said, I'd have no objection to access to a warp ability that could be learned at high level (or purchased from an NPC for high cost). That would be more resource management, which appeals to me as well. Priced quick travel between major "hubs" is also a good option, in my opinion.

I had a great deal of enjoyment playing as a scavenger in Fallout 3/New Vegas instead of doing the main storyline, due to a combination of "realism" mods, high lethality, food/water/sleep needs and slow levelling. Needing to go back and forth in real time really enhanced the sense of barely getting by early game.

I don't doubt that kind of thing in Skyrim would be boring for many, but I definitely like the idea of enhancing the sense that you need to work hard to survive in such a dangerous place like Tamriel.

As I said, I tend to play through normally at first, so that I understand the indended way of playing (often "Wahoo" style). All the other stuff I add in is just a way to extend the life of the product I've bought. I don't buy a lot of games, so I try to make each one count as much as possible. It's one of the reasons I like games that have strong modding communities.

Looking forward to the full CK, that's for sure. As always, play how you like!
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Old 2012-01-25, 05:22   Link #2092
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fahd View Post
If there's one reason you should wander around Skyrim it's so that you might run into M'aiq the Liar (link with dialogue spoilers), and benefit from his wisdom .
And yet, what does that have to do with fast travel?
There is nothing wrong with wondering around, but it has nothing to do with getting from A to B. I regularly explore in Skyrim; I didn't need to be forced into it in any way.

Further, M'aiq does NOT re-appear in the same place after you have already been to an area, so if you back track over and over the same road, you won't see him again no matter what you do.

Fast Travel and Exploration have nothing to do with each other.

Quote:
I don't doubt that kind of thing in Skyrim would be boring for many, but I definitely like the idea of enhancing the sense that you need to work hard to survive in such a dangerous place like Tamriel.
Actually, survival in Skyrim is nothing like Fallout. Food is plentiful to the point of being thrown away in garbage bins (that's what the barrels are), there is actual law and order with a legal system. If bandits attack you can always run to a cityguard who will help you unconditionally. To even pretend it is hard to survive in Skyrim is role playing something that doesn't exist; In general the only real threat are the dragons, otherwise the Holds are great places to live.

If Tamriel is half as dangerous as you like to believe, most NPCs would be dead. Indeed, that's what happens with Oblivion when level scaling went overboard and travelling NPCs die off-screen to demonic wildlife. At some point, I have to wonder why people are pretending the TES world is some forsaken land, when it is clearly one of the more pleasant game universes.
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Last edited by Vallen Chaos Valiant; 2012-01-25 at 06:03.
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Old 2012-01-25, 06:02   Link #2093
C.A.
Absolute Haruhist!
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Age: 27
No, M'aiq appeared twice at the exact same spot for me, when I ran west from Whiterun towards Rorikstead and a third time some where else. Both times I met him at the same spot involved him running from a Flame Atronach, but the first time involved a Vigilantes of Stendarr attacking the Flame Atronach.

Also I've met the Wandering Bard at least 5 times.

I've had an encounter at the hot springs near Eldergleam Sanctuary, where 2 elder dragons attacked the hunters bathing in the hot spring, along with a group of bandits and 2 spriggans who caused all the wild life in the area to go in a frenzy. There were like a pack of 3 wolves, 2 elks, a rabbit, a bear and a mammoth.

I've also seen a battle between 2 pairs of ice and fire mages who fought all the way to some Hagraven camp starting a 3 way magic battle, after killing all of them a Wisp Mother attacked me.

The fact is that things happen if you walk and don't if you just fast travel.
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No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often.
Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb!
I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama.

My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
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Old 2012-01-25, 08:12   Link #2094
Sound of Azure
...Is that so?
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post

Actually, survival in Skyrim is nothing like Fallout. Food is plentiful to the point of being thrown away in garbage bins (that's what the barrels are), there is actual law and order with a legal system. If bandits attack you can always run to a cityguard who will help you unconditionally. To even pretend it is hard to survive in Skyrim is role playing something that doesn't exist; In general the only real threat are the dragons, otherwise the Holds are great places to live.

If Tamriel is half as dangerous as you like to believe, most NPCs would be dead. Indeed, that's what happens with Oblivion when level scaling went overboard and travelling NPCs die off-screen to demonic wildlife. At some point, I have to wonder why people are pretending the TES world is some forsaken land, when it is clearly one of the more pleasant game universes.
I agree, Skyrim is easy to survive in as it stands. That's fine, I wasn't disputing that. Heck, Fallout is easy enough to survive in at its base settings. The hardcore mode in New Vegas really wasn't hardcore in my estimation, though it gave you a bit more to think about at early levels.

I'm talking about modifying it to be more unpleasant. I've played through and have seen what kind of story the developers wanted to tell, and now I want to turn EASY MODO off, and get a different kind of experience. These kind of changes aren't going to be in the base game, but have to be added in. For challenge, immersion, what ever.

So yeah, I agree with you. All my issues are flavour ones. I like gritty, I like hard challenges, I like immersion (including guards who help you out against bandits). The world of TES is relatively benign for the average person. However, I don't want my character to be average. My character is somebody who goes out into the dark despite the danger. That's a hard thing to do, but it's challenge that makes the most compelling story for people like me. Simple as that.

It's a great strength of modding communities that everyone can (eventually) play the kinds of stories they like. As always, play what you will.
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Old 2012-01-25, 12:42   Link #2095
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
No, M'aiq appeared twice at the exact same spot for me, when I ran west from Whiterun towards Rorikstead and a third time some where else. Both times I met him at the same spot involved him running from a Flame Atronach, but the first time involved a Vigilantes of Stendarr attacking the Flame Atronach.

Also I've met the Wandering Bard at least 5 times.

I've had an encounter at the hot springs near Eldergleam Sanctuary, where 2 elder dragons attacked the hunters bathing in the hot spring, along with a group of bandits and 2 spriggans who caused all the wild life in the area to go in a frenzy. There were like a pack of 3 wolves, 2 elks, a rabbit, a bear and a mammoth.

I've also seen a battle between 2 pairs of ice and fire mages who fought all the way to some Hagraven camp starting a 3 way magic battle, after killing all of them a Wisp Mother attacked me.

The fact is that things happen if you walk and don't if you just fast travel.
That doesn't change Valk's point in regards to that it has nothing to do with fast travel.

You can choose to do fast travel or not. Myself I hated Far Cry 2 because it took forever to get from A to B and not everyone has time to play a game 150%. Plus the same scenary over and over again gets boring, especially when you get continuously attacked by the same patrol over and over again.

Yes it Skyrim some things do happen but sometimes a guy just wants to get to Point B without being distracted or anything like that. This is why games like Assassin's Creed 2 and others started implementing fast travel simply because players don't want to have to keep "walking" between two areas over and over again.

I guess the origin of this argument was what is the point of making a mod that penalizes fast travel? This is a single player game so if you don't want to do fast travel then you simply don't.

On the other hand, it'd be nice if they could mod in being able to fight on horseback. Never made much sense.
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Old 2012-01-25, 14:47   Link #2096
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
And yet, what does that have to do with fast travel?
There is nothing wrong with wondering around, but it has nothing to do with getting from A to B. I regularly explore in Skyrim; I didn't need to be forced into it in any way.

Further, M'aiq does NOT re-appear in the same place after you have already been to an area, so if you back track over and over the same road, you won't see him again no matter what you do.

Fast Travel and Exploration have nothing to do with each other.


Actually, survival in Skyrim is nothing like Fallout. Food is plentiful to the point of being thrown away in garbage bins (that's what the barrels are), there is actual law and order with a legal system. If bandits attack you can always run to a cityguard who will help you unconditionally. To even pretend it is hard to survive in Skyrim is role playing something that doesn't exist; In general the only real threat are the dragons, otherwise the Holds are great places to live.

If Tamriel is half as dangerous as you like to believe, most NPCs would be dead. Indeed, that's what happens with Oblivion when level scaling went overboard and travelling NPCs die off-screen to demonic wildlife. At some point, I have to wonder why people are pretending the TES world is some forsaken land, when it is clearly one of the more pleasant game universes.
Well, it's easy if you're the kind of guy who can outfight bears with one arm tied behind your back. For the poor buggers who get killed by bandits before I even have time to get off my horse, though? Not so much.
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Old 2012-01-26, 04:42   Link #2097
Fahd
* >/dev/null
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cambridge, UK
Age: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
And yet, what does that have to do with fast travel?
Absolutely nothing. It was a joke . Continuing the theme, I'm not sure whether I should find this disturbing, or funny, or both - a my little pony dragon replacement mod:

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Old 2012-01-26, 05:26   Link #2098
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
I put in the "wars in skyrim" mod... that's made walking a fairly exciting way to grind (blundering into trolls vs farmers or one battle I had with a dragon that also involved a troll and a pack of saber cats - all of us blasting away at each other in a 4-way). I have it set to modest.

Nonetheless, I do use fast travel at specific times (like... I'm ready to go to sleep and I'd like to park in my main city).

My dark elf "magical girl assassin" (assassin who uses illusions, bow, and daggers) is currently worming her way into the inner court at Solitude.

Aside: yeah I've seen the MLP mod o.O ... and there are far stranger ones out there, makes the nekomimi mode look very tame in comparison. Saw a mod for WWF dragon wrestler mod.... and a lot of the "stripper armor" mods are just bloody stupid in a stabbity die way. Takes a lot of digging to find mods that manage to be stylish rather than nekkid-cliinical-tacky but I have found some nice ones. More than a few mods are in the "because it was possible" category...

Last edited by Vexx; 2012-01-26 at 05:38.
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Old 2012-01-26, 13:45   Link #2099
Urzu 7
Juanita/Kiteless
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New England
Age: 30
Got some links to some nekomimi mods?
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Old 2012-01-26, 17:07   Link #2100
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
Got some links to some nekomimi mods?
Here's the current one, its a constructable ear and tail clothing item. Its ... cute but clearly a first effort kind of thing. There are mods in progress to modify the Khajiits or provide entirely new races as well though everyone seems to be waiting for the mod crafting toolset to be released.

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=6150
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