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Old 2012-01-25, 01:07   Link #2921
aeriolewinters
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One outdated suit can't win against a group of more advanced suits. Thus, please give an example where a single outdated and outgunned suit is able to defeat a whole group of more advanced suits. I mean, not just survive them or hold them or destroying some of them, but totally win against them. If not, my point still stands.
Amuro's RX-78 vs Rick Doms and Goufs
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:08   Link #2922
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Originally Posted by monster View Post
Like I said, there's nothing Kira could do about the fact that the Strike's shield couldn't handle a shot from the Zaku's cannon. Creativity and skill has nothing to do with it. And Kira would've died in the desert if the Strike did not have phase shift armor.
Strike Gundam couldn't even STAND properly on the sand when Kira first launched. PS Armor is one thing, but how would Kira be able to fight off the BuCUES just on PS Armor alone? He needed to be able to fight against them, not just allowing himself to be hit there like those standing targets in a shooting range. Kira adjusted the OS so that he can fight against those BuCUES properly to be able to survive that battle as well.

Trying to get to the Eternal in one piece is just as important. Excuses like that don't really cut it. There are other things to consider too - Andrew was also busy trying to hold off other enemies and Kira makes a mess in Strike. Andrew already has a lot to look out for protecting the Eternal by himself, and he still has to look after Kira's back? Some ace pilot Kira is. He's lucky the Eternal isn't swarmed by a hundred of those things or else he's already dead even before he gets to the Eternal.
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:11   Link #2923
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Could've easily thrown the shield, point is, I've seen Kira do some cool shit with the Strike, and to say that he can't think of something creative to preserve it, is kinda inconsistent with him.
Yeah, let's throw the shield so it can get shoved into the hull of the Eternal by the cannon shot, that's a smart idea lol.
But seriously I think you're expecting too much of Kira, there's no way he could preserve the shield giving what he had to work with.
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:11   Link #2924
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And let's not forget that Andrew is doing that well in a mobile suit that is not designed for combat in open space, with the severe handicap of missing an eye. And he was doing just as well, if not better, than Kira, who is a better pilot in a familiar machine he'd pulled off miracles with, and that was designed for space combat.
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:28   Link #2925
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Amuro's RX-78 vs Rick Doms and Goufs
RX-78-2 at that time is still a hot property fresh from the oven. It's not outdated.

You see, It's not like I try to desperately insist my point here. If somebody can prove me wrong, I'll gladly take back my statement .
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:32   Link #2926
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We already gave you the example of the Flag taking on and destroying superior GN-XIIIs... if you're gonna ignore that, you're probably going to ignore anything else we offer.
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:34   Link #2927
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Said Flag was piloted by a Innovator and had a GN based weapon (not a regular Flag weapon) didn't it?
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:36   Link #2928
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Said Flag was piloted by a Innovator and had a GN based weapon (not a regular Flag weapon) didn't it?
And the Strike Rouge had the Ultimate Coordinator, a veteran from a war two years ago, and is one of the absolute best pilots in the SEED universe. What's your point?
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:38   Link #2929
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
We already gave you the example of the Flag taking on and destroying superior GN-XIIIs... if you're gonna ignore that, you're probably going to ignore anything else we offer.
On the other hand, if you just try to ignore the GN based weapon the said Flag has, then OK, I'll say you're right and take back my statement.
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:40   Link #2930
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
On the other hand, if you just try to ignore the GN based weapon the said Flag has, then OK, I'll say you're right and take back my statement.
Matters little--GN-XIII had beam weaponry, Flag had beam weaponry. GOUF had beam weaponry, Strike Rouge had beam weaponry. There isn't much in the way of tech difference here to really matter.

Though if you want to get really technical, Setsuna was still able to destroy a GN-XIII with a non GN-particle weapon in that fight. Which is only going to make Kira look even worse in comparison.
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:51   Link #2931
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Matters little--GN-XIII had beam weaponry, Flag had beam weaponry. GOUF had beam weaponry, Strike Rouge had beam weaponry. There isn't much in the way of tech difference here to really matter.

Though if you want to get really technical, Setsuna was still able to destroy a GN-XIII with a non GN-particle weapon in that fight. Which is only going to make Kira look even worse in comparison.
No thank you. I don't wanna go too technical about some imaginary technology. I don't want to be trapped in some baseless arguments . Though in reality my statement applies (for example, a single F-18 couldn't stand a chance against a group of F-22s), the Gundam universe has its own logic. I understand that.
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Old 2012-01-25, 01:53   Link #2932
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
I don't want to be trapped in some baseless arguments .
Yet you already are, given that after all these years, people still get butthurt over SEED and its flaws. God knows this argument we're all in isn't going anywhere.
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Old 2012-01-25, 02:07   Link #2933
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Yet you already are, given that after all these years, people still get butthurt over SEED and its flaws. God knows this argument we're all in isn't going anywhere.
At least I'm not involved in some really long argument about which pairing is better .

Seriously, when it comes to technology of Gundamverse, the only measures/evidences we have is 'which suit is newer', 'which suit is able to defeat which suit' and 'who is the superior pilot'. We never knew the actual power level of the beam weapons for each variants of suits, which suit is more fast and maneuverable and how strong Phase-Shift armor actually is. So, being too technical actually going nowhere.
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Old 2012-01-25, 02:14   Link #2934
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At least I'm not involved in some really long argument about which pairing is better .
Neither are we. We've just been saying that Kira/Lacus was developed improperly.
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Old 2012-01-25, 02:16   Link #2935
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At least I'm not involved in some really long argument about which pairing is better
touche, got me there.

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We never knew the actual power level of the beam weapons for each variants of suits, which suit is more fast and maneuverable and how strong Phase-Shift armor actually is. So, being too technical actually going nowhere.
They're the same, every time. what Kira blocked was a shot that's actually weaker than the Agni( the Launcher's cannon)
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We've just been saying that Kira/Lacus was developed improperly.
This. we're actually trying to make an assessment on how much better Kira and Lacus' relationship would have been, had they got proper development and not 'Why not pair our two most popular characters' kind of thing.
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Old 2012-01-25, 02:32   Link #2936
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
They're the same, every time. what Kira blocked was a shot that's actually weaker than the Agni( the Launcher's cannon)
Sorry, I'm still trying not to be too technical here, but how do you know Gunner Zaku Warrior's canon is weaker than Agni?
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Old 2012-01-25, 02:34   Link #2937
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Sorry, I'm still trying not to be too technical here, but how do you know Gunner Zaku Warrior's canon is weaker than Agni?
For one, Kira did a number on Heliopolis. Haven't seen a Zaku do that.
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Old 2012-01-25, 02:44   Link #2938
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
For one, Kira did a number on Heliopolis. Haven't seen a Zaku do that.
Alright then. I can accept that since I don't wanna be too technical.
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Old 2012-01-25, 03:29   Link #2939
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Could've easily thrown the shield, point is, I've seen Kira do some cool shit with the Strike, and to say that he can't think of something creative to preserve it, is kinda inconsistent with him.
Kira was using the shield to block the shot and the shot destroyed the shield and the Strike's arms with it. How does that make Kira inconsistent?
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Saying the short time frame to perform the action won't fly, either--most of his brilliant actions in the Strike were performed with only scant seconds to succeed or fail in.
Most of his brilliant actions were not undermined by a shield that couldn't offer sufficient protection.
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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
Strike Gundam couldn't even STAND properly on the sand when Kira first launched. PS Armor is one thing, but how would Kira be able to fight off the BuCUES just on PS Armor alone? He needed to be able to fight against them, not just allowing himself to be hit there like those standing targets in a shooting range. Kira adjusted the OS so that he can fight against those BuCUES properly to be able to survive that battle as well.
It's very simple: the PS armor allowed Kira time to made modifications for Strike. He couldn't do that if the Strike is damaged after the first shot. But that's exactly what happened with the Strike Rouge.
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Trying to get to the Eternal in one piece is just as important. Excuses like that don't really cut it. There are other things to consider too - Andrew was also busy trying to hold off other enemies and Kira makes a mess in Strike. Andrew already has a lot to look out for protecting the Eternal by himself, and he still has to look after Kira's back? Some ace pilot Kira is. He's lucky the Eternal isn't swarmed by a hundred of those things or else he's already dead even before he gets to the Eternal.
It's like you didn't even watch the episode or have forgotten about it.

Let me say it again: Kira performed well in the Strike Rouge until he tried to block a shot from a Zaku's beam cannon that was targeted at the Eternal. There is no excuses here. Kira blocked a shot and it damaged his suit. That's all there is to it.
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And let's not forget that Andrew is doing that well
And so did Kira before he blocked that shot for Eternal.
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And the Strike Rouge had the Ultimate Coordinator, a veteran from a war two years ago, and is one of the absolute best pilots in the SEED universe. What's your point?
What's your point? A destroyed shield has nothing to do with the pilot.
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Old 2012-01-25, 06:18   Link #2940
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Setsuna and his flag Facepalms at this
Setsuna in the flag will still rape you, it was only done to further show the " Purebreed Innovator power " imo

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Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
Have you simply forgotten how awesome Kira was during the desert battle in SEED just using the Strike? How he was so creative using the Strike? The Strike Gundam was useless on the desert - it was the BuCUES turf. Kira, being the genius programmer that he is, just adjusted the Strike's OS on the fly so that it could be able to fight against them fair and square. Kira even used the Strike Gundam underwater just to get at the ZAFT MS attacking the Archangel from underwater before they arrived at Orb (after the desert arc). You HAVE to consider the fact that the Strike has no underwater capabilities as a suit - Kira was just really pushing it to its limits, and he wasn't really scared to push this suit to its limits even if he had these ZAFT MS surrounding them.

Give and take a few years, the Strike WAS outdated, but it didn't necessarily mean that the suit was useless against them. Strike WAS his suit before it was the Strike Rouge. Where has all this creativity gone? Strike proved capable enough to be able to sortie and fight in space, and this was before he was even more familiar with how it's used.

To also get at that outdated suit excuse, remember Athrun held off a Gundam during the Armory One incident with a ZAKU. A FREAKING ZAKU.

Also, just to add to aeriolewinters' post, Graham Aker and Sergei Smirnov also facepalm at this travesty.
Kira was pushing the Strike to it's limits indeed, and you have to realize that that was during episode 20-30 in Seed, when the Strike was pretty much 1 month? tops off the assembly line, the Strike isnt such a good Mobile suit

Not to mention the Zaku and Gouf's already have better specs, movement and hell weapons than the strike, they win in everything except the PS armor, which they outdo in a longer operation span due to the E-caps, and not to mention they are all beam weapons except for the Wizard strike pack, the Zaku/Gouf has the Strike beat in every possible feat.

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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
Amuro's RX-78 vs Rick Doms and Goufs
UC and CE is different, so lets disregard that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper View Post
Strike Gundam couldn't even STAND properly on the sand when Kira first launched. PS Armor is one thing, but how would Kira be able to fight off the BuCUES just on PS Armor alone? He needed to be able to fight against them, not just allowing himself to be hit there like those standing targets in a shooting range. Kira adjusted the OS so that he can fight against those BuCUES properly to be able to survive that battle as well.

Trying to get to the Eternal in one piece is just as important. Excuses like that don't really cut it. There are other things to consider too - Andrew was also busy trying to hold off other enemies and Kira makes a mess in Strike. Andrew already has a lot to look out for protecting the Eternal by himself, and he still has to look after Kira's back? Some ace pilot Kira is. He's lucky the Eternal isn't swarmed by a hundred of those things or else he's already dead even before he gets to the Eternal.
Doubt it, 30 vs 100 in CE isnt that much of a deal, once Kira launches in the Strike Freedom, they would've been Plot-exploded anyways, hell, we might've even seen pilots being " oh fuck this /selfdestruct " if that happened

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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
And let's not forget that Andrew is doing that well in a mobile suit that is not designed for combat in open space, with the severe handicap of missing an eye. And he was doing just as well, if not better, than Kira, who is a better pilot in a familiar machine he'd pulled off miracles with, and that was designed for space combat.
Yeah, he was doing somewhat better (Still struggling) in a new generation
mobile suit, the Gaia was a very fine machine, too bad Stellar didn't really do much in it except running around like a dog, from what we've been show it functions fine in space, just like the Abyss

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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
Matters little--GN-XIII had beam weaponry, Flag had beam weaponry. GOUF had beam weaponry, Strike Rouge had beam weaponry. There isn't much in the way of tech difference here to really matter.

Though if you want to get really technical, Setsuna was still able to destroy a GN-XIII with a non GN-particle weapon in that fight. Which is only going to make Kira look even worse in comparison.
The GN-XIII's was taken by surprise, got hit by a Smoke screen, and picked off by one of the pureblood innovators Not to mention the Flag was equipped with GN-Tech. its like calling the Strike-E a regular Strike, the flag has a " Setsuna custom " to it aswell
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