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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 122 Rating
Perfect 10 3 6.38%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 8 17.02%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 21.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 23.40%
6 out of 10 : Average 9 19.15%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 6.38%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 4.26%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 2.13%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-01-29, 14:40   Link #461
Shiek927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Interesting "summary" although too much happens and there are too many revelations revealed at once. Also it would be strange that Hysteria would be defeated so quickly or that ghosts could ditch her by dispersing in all directions. And writing this amount of text (especially in Chinese) should have taken quite a bit of time so I don't know when this someone would have to read the chapter. Still, it's good we have something.
Wait, what, you can actually understand this garbled mess?

.......Wait, what?!

Quote:
Also it would be strange that Hysteria would be defeated so quickly
.......

......


.....

Are you serious?



You've got to be freaking kidding me - I was afraid this would happen.

It's just a spoiler, I know, but I don't want Nixl to be right when he said the power levels were broken....well, not completely right anyway.

Quote:
Does this mean that Clare breaks out of the blob?
That's the implication all right
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Old 2012-01-29, 14:42   Link #462
Gooral
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Don't panic Shiek, I don't understand much of this, it's just me guessing. From the looks of it she was either defeated by Claymores using their teamwork or they somehow escaped but that's assumption based on bad translation.

BTW, response below looks funny when compared with your reaction above .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
So the best thing I can say is too, when reading, keep it cool and with an open-mind - their is a very good chance after all, that not everything we want to know will be revealed in one chapter; that doesn't necessarily mean it won't ever.
Also, since we're talking about 123rd chapter maybe we should go to the 123rd chapter thread after all :].
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Old 2012-01-29, 14:47   Link #463
Shiek927
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Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Don't panic Shiek, I don't understand much of this, it's just me guessing. From the looks of it she was either defeated by Claymores using their teamwork or they somehow escaped but that's assumption based on bad translation.
- I know I know; I should take my own advice and keep an open mind, especially since this is just a spoiler.

(edit: ROFLMAO, you called me out on that......stupid me >_<)

Not that their aren't plausible ways to kill the ZAOS anyway - if Claire and Priscilla are released, then the latter can all too easily finish them; or the ZAOS finish eachother...I wouldn't prefer them to die at all, but their are at least sensible ways of going about it.

Though, speaking on that....they are released?; I was hoping we'd get to see what goes on inside....that, inside this blob, since they are all connected....we would see this sort of mental-confrontation as everyone is 'synced' and they, and we, get to learn all sorts of new things about them.

Their's all sorts of room for creativity like that - maybe Claire has another mental showdown, this time with Priscilla...maybe she's treated to "what-ifs', if she can presumably Awaken in this situation....or has the powers of Teresa (black-box style) and/or Raciella...maybe Priscilla's multiple persons fight eachother...

Their is alot of creativity - whatever happens, I'm hoping they simply don't get released; it wouldn't surprise me though if they did, and we were treated to a condensed ambiguous flashback later on....that's Yagi style alright.
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Old 2012-01-29, 14:51   Link #464
Newhope
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Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
Omg! The org got to the island via a tunnel and left the same way.... but the tech to make something on that scale is 20th century stuff (at least the tech to DRILL UNDER AND OCEAN is, maybe with enough math they could drill in the right direction without 20th century tech but that deep and without a labor force equaling that of the great wall of china (and yet it still be a secret base on the other end, I mean there's just no way the yoma could have eaten the entire work force in a few hours and with non escaping or leaving clues behind ) plus the construction time would have been staggering...). If true I can forgive Yagi though since I never saw that coming and at least we don't have to deal with the ships not being spotted by locals on the island and such

Oh, and it appears Teresa has been living in Clare this whole time... no one guessed that, wait I mean everyone did

Honestly I'm not sure if this is a extra credit worthy fake spoiler or the real bloody deal... but it will be fun to wait and see. Wish I could make heads or tails of half of the spoiler...
Drilling tunnels under the sea isn't really 20th century stuff they did that in our world 200-250 years ago under the English channel, they just abandoned the workings because it was costing to much and taking to long.

I actually had a theory a long time ago that Teresa would be inside Claire, Just think what is one of a Yoma's primary skills? It's memory absorption including mannerism,personality ETC though absorbing material from a person and then basically becoming in essence that person with a duel personality. I can see Teresa making another appearance though Claire two people in one body so to speak.
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Old 2012-01-29, 14:53   Link #465
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
What gets my eyebrows raised is that bit about Poison Gas

Maybe the MiB's are leaving and they are gonna gas all the facilities before they escape....suddenly, we may get our deaths that people want so much

Poison Gas feels plausible in my opinion - the Eastern regions in particular have always been a blasted, almost volcanic, twisted area...It wouldn't surprise me whatsoever if deadly vapors were present somewhere in the island that they contained.
At the rate "death" for the warriors vs monsters has been going of late in the series, the gas will be of this variety

Spoiler for gas:
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Old 2012-01-29, 14:58   Link #466
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Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
At the rate "death" for the warriors vs monsters has been going of late in the series, the gas will be of this variety

Spoiler for gas:
It was really creepy when Bruce had a dose of that stuff in "Return of the Joker"

----

Wow, I need to work on my history...I never knew that kind of drilling was being done, much less so long ago....suddenly makes these tunnels more plausible, though I think it also largely depends on how close the islands are from eachother....They can't be that close if the islanders seemingly aren't aware of any other landmass.
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:04   Link #467
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Newhope View Post
Drilling tunnels under the sea isn't really 20th century stuff they did that in our world 200-250 years ago under the English channel, they just abandoned the workings because it was costing to much and taking to long.

I actually had a theory a long time ago that Teresa would be inside Claire, Just think what is one of a Yoma's primary skills? It's memory absorption including mannerism,personality ETC though absorbing material from a person and then basically becoming in essence that person with a duel personality. I can see Teresa making another appearance though Claire two people in one body so to speak.
They did? How come I can't find anything on google about it then?

...and, even if true, since the mainland is clearly further away form the island than France and England since the mainland isn't visible from England, then logically the "costs" and "time" needed to construct it would be vastly greater. The secrecy of the island almost makes this beyond plausible... too much resources and man power are seemingly needed and the chance of discovery is too great. Albiet the other side did clearly find out about it and get a man or two inside, so it's not impossible just that the org should have suspected they had been infiltrated based on how big this undertaking would have too have been yet it seems the org was very arrogant about spies until Dae mentioned such possibility.

I willing to let this one slide, I'm just saying it's kinda hard to suspend disbelief under these circumstances.
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:19   Link #468
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Spoiler for Tunnel:


This ones from the 1860s they got about 4-5 miles under the channel before stopping, but yes the distance from the mainland and not the actual tunnel that makes it implausible.
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:29   Link #469
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Newhope View Post
Spoiler for Tunnel:


This ones from the 1860s they got about 4-5 miles under the channel before stopping, but yes the distance from the mainland and not the actual tunnel that makes it implausible.
Still 1860's is almost 20th century and most fans of Claymore view the old forts on the island at around 1000's-1500's time period. To have the island go from even the later 1500's tech guesses to late 1800's in ~100 years is a bit of a stretch but likely an author could find a reason for it.

Plus if the tunnel was built in the 1860's the odds are explosives where used too... and with explosives being around the need for giant monsters, whom would eat you just as quickly as the enemy, to fight your battles decreases. The risk and cost ratio for Awakened Beings would not likely be a favorable vs the cost ratio of bombs (and even more so if cannons exist) Not saying the two techs would be interdependent, but only the toughest or fastest ABs could survive a well designed cannon if a mere sword could cut them and a few cannons could wreck just as much damage in the long run (except against maybe The Destroyer/Priscilla/Teresa whom would just outclass any gun/explosive shy of a nuke... in short only AOs and up would be useful to the org if such an extreme levels of tech existed).
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:29   Link #470
Shiek927
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Originally Posted by Newhope View Post
Spoiler for Tunnel:


This ones from the 1860s they got about 4-5 miles under the channel before stopping, but yes the distance from the mainland and not the actual tunnel that makes it implausible.
Very impressive, especially for it's time

But yes, as you said, what the Org is doing is pretty far-out-there....even if their are almost 300 islands scattered around (and that doesn't include the actual mainland), they are spread far enough that the islanders don't know of any other landmass....which implies, other then the possibility of their being no trade or ship-building of any sort, that the tunnel-system must be huuuuuge.

It's possible that the tunnel doesn't lead directly to the mainland, but to a nearby-island that either has ships, or their is this massive tunnel-system linking all the islands together like a web straight back to the mainland...

--

You can't forget Ryus that Claymore is medieval/modern, the forts may be old looking, but, underneath, they have many things are rooted obviously in today's day....My confusion was that I thought the tunnel system was too advanced by today's standards (which Newhope just proved wrong); you are confused because you think it's too advanced by medieval standards...which is also true.

It's definitely going to be a stretch if this is true...I'm sort of willing to suspend my disbelief....who knows though - this does sound like one of those things where, once we actually see it in the translated chapter, it looks cool.
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:39   Link #471
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What your forgetting we don't know what tech they have access too for example the metal that makes claymore blades which in itself is just as advanced as anything we have in the 20-21st century, that metal alone would allow them to do wonders in drilling and tool making.
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:44   Link #472
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Quote:
Drilling tunnels under the sea isn't really 20th century stuff they did that in our world 200-250 years ago under the English channel, they just abandoned the workings because it was costing to much and taking to long.
with claymore workers with yoma flesh inside them they would be 10 - 20 times as fast and endurant. A claymore doesn't need the food in a month a normal worker needs in a day and so on...
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:50   Link #473
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
You can't forget Ryus that Claymore is medieval/modern, the forts may be old looking, but, underneath, they have many things are rooted obviously in today's day....My confusion was that I thought the tunnel system was too advanced by today's standards (which Newhope just proved wrong); you are confused because you think it's too advanced by medieval standards...which is also true.

It's definitely going to be a stretch if this is true...I'm sort of willing to suspend my disbelief....who knows though - this does sound like one of those things where, once we actually see it in the translated chapter, it looks cool.
Obviously have things rooted from today, how? That is pure speculation...

Plus I'm more looking at it from the view point of what a late 19th century army could do against ABs (and by comparison "Dragonkin").

In short if they can build tunnels at that level of tech, then their armies should logically not still be medieval in tech... and therefore could potentially kill ABs on their own. So Miria's depiction of the mainland war likely wouldn't have men in suits of armor with ABs for backup... Note they'd likely not be able to kill them easily with 1860 tech but for sure they could do it and they can also just as easily bombard a city with cannons/explosives.

So the logical question is if this level of tech exists why are they funding these monsters to become so powerful and controllable, when they're so bloody close to WW1 level tech and greater. So why invest that much man power in a tunnel to an island for a 100 year long research program that could implode on them... when they could just as easily invest in better guns and cannons (hell a 100 years from 1860 we had Nuclear weapons, ICBMs, tanks, fighter jets, missiles, machine guns, etc...) So why the still pressing need for ABs? I'm just saying if there level of technical development is that great Yagi will have some explaining to d as to why they still need ABs when the risks they poses is so great.
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:55   Link #474
irvinethearcher
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@ryus
i explained a theory before...
with male or female claymores as workers they would be a lot faster as with human workers. A number one claymore would be as efficient as a drill i guess.
And a drill needs fuel...
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:55   Link #475
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Spoiler for google translate:




Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoiler View Post
poison gas halo fans
I do not favor Halo fans either, but this seems rather extreme. I like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoiler View Post
report a black person
Oh, I see. Mmhmmm
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:58   Link #476
Ryus
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What your forgetting we don't know what tech they have access too for example the metal that makes claymore blades which in itself is just as advanced as anything we have in the 20-21st century, that metal alone would allow them to do wonders in drilling and tool making.
It's not "more advanced," it's breaks all the known properties of metals.

If they can make that using tech and industry, and not some magic... then they should be so advanced that they should be interplanetary explores by then with phasers and clocking devices (or at least robot armies), not giant monsters that eat their own people too.

You're mistake is assuming tech and industry... clearly they have a unique way of getting to there level of development that has no parallel to the real word. I'm just saying that once Yagi starts explaining the mainland, he's going to have to give us hints as to how they got what they got yet still have need of bloody monsters that eat their own people too. Clearly the answer isn't tech or industry related... at least in the broadest sense (since they do need some level of mass production for a war of such a scale).
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Old 2012-01-29, 15:58   Link #477
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Ryus....the story has always been medieval/modern.

From the design of the buildings and houses, to medicines, to the swords, to certain points of information (like Claire saying that Raciella's yoki felt like "something from another corner of the globe", implying that they know the world isn't flat) to way people talk and interact...Obviously the story is largely still medieval (albeit with some modern twists), so their cannot be anything as glaring as firearms or other things that you say, but their has always been modern twists in the story since day 1. It's probably why they, too much in my opinion, also added all that heavy-metal in the anime soundtrack instead of just pure ballads more accurate music.

Little things here and there are obviously too advanced and knowledgeable for them to be truly medieval (hotels, mannerisms and the way characters talk instead of the overly fluffy dialog); just little things however because, as you say, the story is still largely medieval and our beliefs would be far too suspended if their were guns or other such things in the story....it's why we are having this discussion in the first place.

Just to make an example, they apparently have metal that is seemingly indestructible, but they don't have ships and naval transportation.....this sort of cherry-picking from different time-periods is extremely common and seen in all sorts of media, in order to make a more unique world for the story.
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Old 2012-01-29, 16:05   Link #478
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(like Claire saying that Raciella's yoki felt like "something from another corner of the globe", implying that they know the world isn't flat)
I think that doesn't mean they know that the world isn't flat. It is a translation mistake or a saying that it something otherworldly.

With the swords... it could just be a type of metall which only exists on the main land...
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Old 2012-01-29, 16:08   Link #479
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Ryus....the story has always been medieval/modern.

From the design of the buildings and houses, to medicines, to the swords, to certain points of information (like Claire saying that Raciella's yoki felt like "something from another corner of the globe", implying that they know the world isn't flat) to way people talk and interact...Obviously the story is largely still medieval (albeit with some modern twists), so their cannot be anything as glaring as firearms or other things that you say, but their has always been modern twists in the story since day 1. It's probably why they, too much in my opinion, also added all that heavy-metal in the anime soundtrack instead of just pure ballads more accurate music.

Little things here and there are obviously too advanced and knowledgeable for them to be truly medieval (hotels, mannerisms and the way characters talk instead of the overly fluffy dialog); just little things however because, as you say, the story is still largely medieval and our beliefs would be far too suspended if their were guns or other such things in the story....it's why we are having this discussion in the first place.

Just to make an example, they apparently have metal that is seemingly indestructible, but they don't have ships and naval transportation.....this sort of cherry-picking from different time-periods is extremely common and seen in all sorts of media.
Stone/brick two level houses (hotels) existed in wall cities in the early resonance and in some cases before that Shieky... and so did under ground complexes. So nothing in the island indicated any tech beyond the 1500's besides the Claymore's swords.

Now yes, the island has tech levels varying from the 1000s-1500s but nothing has been shown to be beyond that level that isn't connected to the org or Claymores. If you believe there is, please point it out. Walled cities and forts built in the 1600's and later are built to fend off cannons and look very different than anything we've seen in the manga thus far.

Next off Cythina said ships have left the island looking for a mainland and none found it... so the mainland must be really far away, thus ruling out a tunnel without Yagi explaining why those ships never found the mainland (perhaps the tunnel to another island idea?)

And what medicines are you referring too? Bandages? That's about all we've seen thus far in the series and I assure you they had them well before even BC became AD

The modern twists have all been societal vs tech development... I think you're confusing things up.
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Old 2012-01-29, 16:10   Link #480
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I would like to also mention that weaponry isn't the best thing to base a society on --- some civilizations, like the Mayans, had incredible mathametics but were behind in other aspects and were still using bows and arrows...China was dabbling with rockets long before Europe, but the Europeans were better then them in other aspects like surgery and health-care.
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