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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 122 Rating
Perfect 10 3 6.38%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 8 17.02%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 21.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 11 23.40%
6 out of 10 : Average 9 19.15%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 3 6.38%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 2 4.26%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 2.13%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-01-29, 16:19   Link #481
Claymore!
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
I would like to also mention that weaponry isn't the best thing to base a society on --- some civilizations, like the Mayans, had incredible mathametics but were behind in other aspects and were still using bows and arrows...China was dabbling with rockets long before Europe, but the Europeans were better then them in other aspects like surgery and health-care.
But Shiek, the Mayans got their technology from the Aliens

Just like the Egyptians
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Old 2012-01-29, 16:20   Link #482
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But Shiek, the Mayans got their technology from the Aliens

Just like the Egyptians
Apparently they didn't do a good job if they gave them math and not ray-guns or anything ; would have stood a better chance against Cortez and his money-grubbing minions
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Old 2012-01-29, 16:34   Link #483
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Stone/brick two level houses (hotels) existed in wall cities in the early resonance and in some cases before that Shieky... and so did under ground complexes. So nothing in the island indicated any tech beyond the 1500's besides the Claymore's swords.

Now yes, the island has tech levels varying from the 1000s-1500s but nothing has been shown to be beyond that level that isn't connected to the org or Claymores. If you believe there is, please point it out. Walled cities and forts built in the 1600's and later are built to fend off cannons and look very different than anything we've seen in the manga thus far.
You don't believe the archetecture we've seen in alot of the buildings are too fancy to fit into a purely medieval world?

Quote:
Next off Cythina said ships have left the island looking for a mainland and none found it... so the mainland must be really far away, thus ruling out a tunnel without Yagi explaining why those ships never found the mainland (perhaps the tunnel to another island idea?)
.....I.....forgot about that -- naturally, the tunnel system would be exclusively for the MiB's; since the islanders are not aware of the mainland, no ship would naturally go to it unless the MiB's had their own secret port...perhaps a tunnel system is more secretive and quicker and they don't have to worry about being found, perhaps by DoD aerial spies, and/or boarded.

Since the DoDs probably have the aerial advantage, the MiB's have to take every measure to avoid being out in the open.....a ship, is too presumably too exposed.

Quote:
And what medicines are you referring too? Bandages? That's about all we've seen thus far in the series and I assure you they had them well before even BC became AD
How about suppressive pills? or hell, the Claymores as a whole? The study of them, the creation of Yoma, all the science behind all the MiB projects?
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Old 2012-01-29, 16:36   Link #484
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
I would like to also mention that weaponry isn't the best thing to base a society on --- some civilizations, like the Mayans, had incredible mathametics but were behind in other aspects and were still using bows and arrows...China was dabbling with rockets long before Europe, but the Europeans were better then them in other aspects like surgery and health-care.
We're talking about two societies locked in a hundred year long total war... your point is taken, but it likely doesn't apply to these two societies.
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Old 2012-01-29, 16:39   Link #485
irvinethearcher
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They must have built something like this...
The only plausible solution lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJzv6...eature=related
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Old 2012-01-29, 16:46   Link #486
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We're talking about two societies locked in a hundred year long total war... your point is taken, but it likely doesn't apply to these two societies.
Has it been that long?

Yeah, I know I'm suddenly jumping track, but just to try to guesstimate (wow, Firefox doesn't have a red line under that; it's a real word(?) XD)...

I think the times between generations I think someone calculated (Revan?) was something like 10 years give or take.....Depends how if their were only one generation of Males or more (people tend to favor the latter and co-generations), but I think the likelihood of Isley being over 100 years old was extremely high; Riful I tend to put down as borderline, but even then depends on how many Males they were.

And of course, that's just the warriors...the warriors as a whole have probably been around for, let's say, 150 years give or take...depending on how soon the the warriors came after the war started, the conflict could easily be up too, or over, 200 years.

Makes me suddenly get the impression that this war is something everybody is completely used too and it's almost a part of life....no war could possibly go on for that long and the average person thinks too much on it - probably one of those things that doesn't affect you till it shows up at your doorstep.
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Old 2012-01-29, 17:07   Link #487
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
You don't believe the archetecture we've seen in alot of the buildings are too fancy to fit into a purely medieval world?
So your judging all of society based the view we've had of one a rich hotel, as commented by Noel. Or the church and holy city hotel, which have always been grandiose as stated by Clare. The rest of the building insides haven't looked as nice if you recall Raki's ugly home for instance or Irene's abandoned cabin.

Plus don't forget in Claymore we've yet to see large families crowding these same building but families own with a single child or two instead, so the building look less crowded by default... and this is due to the series trying to be more relateable to modern societies than historically accurate to help fans relate better to the characters. In most cases I've actually found most buildings rather sparse... that house the AB smashed it's head into in ch 108 looked like a very poor peoples home IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
.....I.....forgot about that -- naturally, the tunnel system would be exclusively for the MiB's; since the islanders are not aware of the mainland, no ship would naturally go to it unless the MiB's had their own secret port...perhaps a tunnel system is more secretive and quicker and they don't have to worry about being found, perhaps by DoD aerial spies, and/or boarded.

Since the DoDs probably have the aerial advantage, the MiB's have to take every measure to avoid being out in the open.....a ship, is too presumably too exposed.
Since when did we confirm the dragon kin fly and thus an aerial advantage?

and duh, the tunnel system being a secret escape route (at the very least, and if connected to the mainland/another island instead of just being a route out of org hq to some where else on the island) would be exclusively for the MiB's .

The rest of your speculation has some nice reason to it, but still doesn't explain how these flying aerial spies never spotted the dig site for the tunnels entrance on the mainland or whatever island it was drilled to. Next off it doesn't explain why no dragonkin haven't flown over this island on a recon mission... I mean if the enemy never flew spy satellites/planes over my area 51 but flew them over everywhere else, I'd get very suspicious as to why they didn't need intel from there or more precisely how they where getting such good intel from there that they had no need of an occasional flyover of my big empty desert with a runway, or in this case a populated island with many destroyed buildings yet oddly where I never had a battle with them.

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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
How about suppressive pills? or hell, the Claymores as a whole? The study of them, the creation of Yoma, all the science behind all the MiB projects?
First off Claymore's aren't medicines.

Second... yoki pills in no way correlate any time period, so therefore they are proof of nothing. It's a nonexistent item in the real world and has no real world parallels... plus it suppresses yoki a form of, for lack of better word, magic.

For all we know it's made of cow dung, wild flowers, and dragonkin flesh (or yoma flesh of a different wave length to cancel out warriors yoki ); and therefore not raw chemicals that need to be processed in a modern day lab. All we know is if you cut them in half they don't spill chemicals out and therefore is a solid enough substance to hold its shape.
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Old 2012-01-29, 17:35   Link #488
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So your judging all of society based the view we've had of one a rich hotel, as commented by Noel. Or the church and holy city hotel, which have always been grandiose as stated by Clare. The rest of the building insides haven't looked as nice if you recall Raki's ugly home for instance or Irene's abandoned cabin.

Plus don't forget in Claymore we've yet to see large families crowding these same building but families own with a single child or two instead, so the building look less crowded by default... and this is due to the series trying to be more relateable to modern societies than historically accurate to help fans relate better to the characters. In most cases I've actually found most buildings rather sparse... that house the AB smashed it's head into in ch 108 looked like a very poor peoples home IMHO.
.....I think I get how we are both thinking about this; in a sense, you just confirmed the whole medieval/modern thing.

It goes to what you said about apparent societal vs technology.....I mean families having fewer children, as is nowadays, isn't something medieval....yet you seem all too aware of it .

That doesn't mean though that the society/technology thing isn't exclusive because, again, the metal of the Claymore swords hold huge potential and could plausibly explain how the tunnel system can be crafted...if the societies are knowledgable and modern enough, they should be able to easily put two-and-two together and, say, craft tools out of said-metal to construct the tunnel system.

You might argue, in that sense, why they can't make tanks, firearms and other such things - the answer could be as easy as something as Yagi deliberately limiting their resources or them simply not having enough mind and/or means to take their civilization to the next level....It wouldn't surprise me though if somebody have diagrams or drawings of prototype flintlock pistols or other things that, by all rights, they should have if they have other things.

Plus, who knows.....it's a big big world - wouldn't it be ironic, and fitting, if some nation somewhere had firearms and other such modern-things but lacked obvious and basic things that the islanders, and their largely medieval world, does?

Quote:
Since when did we confirm the dragon kin fly and thus an aerial advantage?

and duh, the tunnel system being a secret escape route (at the very least, and if connected to the mainland/another island instead of just being a route out of org hq to some where else on the island) would be exclusively for the MiB's .

The rest of your speculation has some nice reason to it, but still doesn't explain how these flying aerial spies never spotted the dig site for the tunnels entrance on the mainland or whatever island it was drilled to. Next off it doesn't explain why no dragonkin haven't flown over this island on a recon mission... I mean if the enemy never flew spy satellites/planes over my area 51 but flew them over everywhere else, I'd get very suspicious as to why they didn't need intel from there or more precisely how they where getting such good intel from there that they had no need of an occasional flyover of my big empty desert with a runway, or in this case a populated island with many destroyed buildings yet oddly where I never had a battle with them.
They are dragons - forgive me thinking they could fly

The MiB's are the losing side of this war, since the DoD's have their dragons which seemingly operate as siege-weaponry...being pushed as they do, it wouldn't surprise me if their were other elements which force the MiB's to such desperation and secrecy (such as them constructing this huge tunnel system for instance); the DoD's having the flight-advantage would explain it as it's a huge one.

As for your other words....don't forget that their are presumably almost 300 other such islands scattered about apparently....the DoD's can't fly so low as to give off their position; the MiB's are naturally on-guard to see if any whiff of their location is revealed, in which case, they would immediately escape....bombing all the islands from above, as I mentioned before, would take too much time and effort and they probably don't have the manpower to spare for such a costly, and probably wasteful, gesture.

Plus, how good is their geography? Both sides undoubtedly have maps and charts, but if their really are that many islands, and they are spaced out enough that an island thinks it's the only people on the whole planet.....maybe they aren't even looking in the right place; it's like finding a haystack to find a needle in a haystack. Depending on how much they know about the world around them, it could explain alot of things - maybe, barring a select few, the islands and/or any life outside of the mainland, is just a ambigious and unknown as the islanders think of everybody else.

For all we know, the DoD's HAVE flown over the island at one point or another....if their really are that many islands, it would be down to pure stupid luck; they can't fly low-enough that the MiB's fear danger that their position has been revealed; which may also explain why they haven't flown low enough that they see all the battles and fights going on over the course of the island wars...

Plus, if Rubel's words are anything to go by, this isn't new...they want the Org labs to be destroyed by their own creations so they won't try it again; they wouldn't actively seek out and destroy the Org labs by search-and-destroy in the first place...perhaps they already tried at one point and realized the pointlessness of it.

Not only that, Rubel's presence at the island in the first place, implies that somebody in the DoD faction knows what's going on - it wouldn't surprise me if the regular army and much of them didn't know at all (need-to-know policy), but Rubel is there to ensure the scientists demise, which means, even if they know the Org lab's location and everything else, they won't do anything to compromise his mission, which may be why we haven't seen any Dragons popping in till now.

Their's alot of things plainly to think about, but I think, with enough imagination, enough of it becomes plausible to explain, well, everything -- from the tunnel-system, to the DoD and Org dynamics, and everything else. Yes, their is undeniably going to be some suspension-of-belief, but ehh - at that point, we would be expecting too much from Yagi .

Quote:
First off Claymore's aren't medicines.
Oh, really?

You get what I was trying to say....the existence and science behind the Claymore project, the creation of Yoma, Awakened Beings, and everything else is waaay to advanced for something a purely medieval people can pull off - This could go back to being explained by the whole society/technology thing, which shows that tech may not have to do with it so much as we think (science after all.... isn't just technology, but merely a part of it; a very large part, yes, but their are all sorts of science that don't rely on, or aren't based on, tech all that much -- math is one of them), but their is enough cleverness behind all of this to imply that, what these guys have pulled off, is simply too too much for, even a modern society, to pull off....

I mean, genetic engineering nowadays hasn't gotten to the point where we can make a fully-grown clone of out of somebody....they are seemingly sprouted hundreds of Yoma out of nothing and have been doing so for hundreds of years. Doesn't that say something about them?

===

.....You know, it's kind of funny that we're talking so much about one piece of something that came from a potentially fake spoiler -- we're gonna feel silly if this ends up being completely false

Ehh, it's making the time go by
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Old 2012-01-29, 17:58   Link #489
SpiritOfGray
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I had a dream that Miria and Deneve died, while Helen awakened. I think the potentially fake spoiler is better to discuss than that.

Escaping to another island doesn't really fit the "Beginning of the end" theme though. That sounds more like an end to the beginning. It would lead to a potentially cool new storyline though, with different types of Yoma or something. But still, there is already enough clutter in terms of characters. I can't imagine a platoon of claymores assaulting another island.
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Old 2012-01-29, 18:04   Link #490
Shiek927
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I had a dream that Miria and Deneve died, while Helen awakened. I think the potentially fake spoiler is better to discuss than that.

Escaping to another island doesn't really fit the "Beginning of the end" theme though. That sounds more like an end to the beginning. It would lead to a potentially cool new storyline though, with different types of Yoma or something. But still, there is already enough clutter in terms of characters. I can't imagine a platoon of claymores assaulting another island.
Roflmao, few and far between, but I've had Claymore dreams as well....the most notable one, was several years back where I seemingly was playing this Zelda-style video-game where I was playing Teresa in some dungeon or something......it was cool

I'm not for another island whatsoever or a mainland-adventure or anything of the kind whatosever....side's, even if the MiB's depart, their is plenty of cleaning-up and things to do which could last for a very long time; Revan's story is an example of that. Even with the MiB's gone, their still is a matter of the Yoma running free around the island.

Though I guess these things could be plausible...I mean, if Rubel is gone or killed, or the DoD's lose contact with him...it's all too plausible that they have a back-up protocol that involves them aerial-bombing the "napalming" the whole island....something where the DoD's blast in could explain why the Claymores have to leave or get involved in the conflict.

Or who knows, maybe they just leave to another island to live alone in peace...who knows - their is alot of creativity with this stuff; I guess we'll have to see what happens.

As for Deneve's death, that's something Nixl has brought up recently and Revan has done in his story....it would definitely have permanent changes in Helen that's for sure
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Old 2012-01-30, 00:21   Link #491
Ryus
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Spoiler for Another ch 123 spoiler (I think a fake one meant as a joke but not sure):


Spoiler for Translation:
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Old 2012-02-07, 11:43   Link #492
TimeMask
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Roflmao, few and far between, but I've had Claymore dreams as well....the most notable one, was several years back where I seemingly was playing this Zelda-style video-game where I was playing Teresa in some dungeon or something......it was cool

I'm not for another island whatsoever or a mainland-adventure or anything of the kind whatosever....side's, even if the MiB's depart, their is plenty of cleaning-up and things to do which could last for a very long time; Revan's story is an example of that. Even with the MiB's gone, their still is a matter of the Yoma running free around the island.

Though I guess these things could be plausible...I mean, if Rubel is gone or killed, or the DoD's lose contact with him...it's all too plausible that they have a back-up protocol that involves them aerial-bombing the "napalming" the whole island....something where the DoD's blast in could explain why the Claymores have to leave or get involved in the conflict.

Or who knows, maybe they just leave to another island to live alone in peace...who knows - their is alot of creativity with this stuff; I guess we'll have to see what happens.

As for Deneve's death, that's something Nixl has brought up recently and Revan has done in his story....it would definitely have permanent changes in Helen that's for sure
I've never had a Claymore dream and I've been a Claymore fan for a long time.

Miria's side may not be able to do much if they left the island to fight the Org or Dragon Kin since these 2 Organisations seem like they could have thousands of strong warriors in them.

I'm expecting Miria to come up with a plan next chapter to beat Hysteria or for Clare to control the Destroyer and save Miria's side.
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