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View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 123 Rating
Perfect 10 3 7.50%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 4 10.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 7 17.50%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 37.50%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 20.00%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 2.50%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 5.00%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-01-30, 11:47   Link #21
MalakTawus
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@malak while I agree speed is just about the most important factor in this series you're making a mistake in assuming Helen and Deneves ability to track Hysteria wont improve once they fully awaken... especially with Miria also running about with awakened legs distracting and supporting the two.
Wait wait wait. With Miria joining the fight with awakened legs?
Well,of course that changes things A LOT,but that wasn't the scenario that was in discussion,the scenario that we were discussing was with Miria unable to join the fight (and also Miria can't awaken partially her legs like Claire did,if not she would have already done that before......maybe she can if someone help her,but the only one left that could have a chance in doing so would be Raftela,but honestly if wouldn't be belivable at all).

And again,even if Helen and Deneve get better it means NOTHING in front of Histy's immense speed.
If you can't imagine what it means to fight against an opponent that move at that crazy speed you can think of it in another way: Histy moves normally fast while EVERYTHING else move so slow that they are basically standstill.
No seriously,we have seen what was able to do Miria with speed alone against multiple enemies and without even getting serious and do you really think that Helen,Deneve and some useless warriors can do something against an opponent that moves so fast that in comparison Miria's top speed is a joke, and also is one of the strongest n.1s in history so it's quite obvious that even her yoki is at an unbelivable level?

Quote:
They ability to track and counter Hysteria will be as strong or weak as Yagi wants it to be but just going by how much Clare improved by awakening Helen and Deneve should get really strong and fast too (at least strong enough to hold her off till x happens and possibly defeat her if Miria figures out how to defeat her traction)... and dont give me the teresa inside Clare makes her unique excuse that is just one intrupretation that not everyone else agrees with.
No,it's A FACT that Claire's awakening is abnormal due to her particular body,it's IMPOSSIBLE to deny this.
Deneve and Helen CAN'T "power up" as Claire did,who the hell are you kidding?
It's not an opinion: it's a stated fact that when warriors awaken their strenght depends on how strong they were as warriors,so IT'S COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE for Helen and Deneve to become stronger than a certain level since even now they are probably more or less n.3 material (maybe weak n.2s, but that's being VERY generous),nothing more.
.....if we also consider the fact that Deneve and Helen are nothing special in the speed department,it doesn't take a genius to understand that two awakened n.3s (more or less) that move normally for their "rank" (if they are lucky maybe they can be a bit faster than normal,but sure as hell they would always move in slow motion compared to Histy,the speed's queen),can't do absolutely nothing against a monster like Histy that moves at an impossible speed.At least one has to move at a similar speed to defeat her (so the Miria plus awakened legs could be a scenario.......but at this point it would be best to completely awaken Miria,no?).

Like it or not,it's not an opinion that Claire is the only one that has a VERY ABNORMAL awakening,and it's quite obvious that her particular body is the ONLY reason.

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Feel free to believe it but dont force your opinion on us either, I reject your reality on that matter and substaitute my own where awakening doesnt equal a 100% of warrior form but 100% is when they reach the start of there next level of power. It was literally proven to be the case for everyone when Cassandra went from weaker to ~ the same as Roxanne to being able to defeat her with ease.
Ehm,I also belive that 100% warrior doesn't equal to full awakened power, BUT it's a fact that the awakened power is PROPORTIONAL to the warriors power.
This is not an opinion since we know for a fact that Riful confirmed this (it was not just her opinion,she really experimented) and also all the awakened seen so far follow strictly that rule with no exception.
You try to base your speculation on what happened to Cassy,but you are 100% mistaken for various reason:
- Roxy's judgment about Cassy is clearly not even close to be considered a proof
-If Cassy's basic ability was nothing more than n.5 like Roxy said,how the hell is possible that Cassy,even in a situation where she is super confused 'cause she has just came back to life and even WITHOUT using her special ability,she is still able to fight against a n.3,a n.5 a n.9 with tracking blade???
Give up Ryus,it's a fact (not an opinion) that Roxy was incredibly understimating Cassy.
Even the fact that she belived to be able to kill Cassy after the awakening proves that she once again was so biased towards Cassy to be unable to understand something that someone that is not a moron should be able to understand immediately: Cassy clearly had abyssals power.
-We know for a fact that Dae's true objective is to lure Priscilla and to do so it means that he needs those 3 monsters to be as powerful as possible.This means that Dae already knew that Cassy would have reached abyssal-level yoki so the only logical explanatiion is (ONCE AGAIN) that Dae was 100% sure that Cassy had n.1-level yoki

.....also it's not so fair to judge a warior without her main technique,lol.....not to mention that without her special technique Cassy maybe was simply quite bad at fighting (that's why Roxy could have made that comment),but that doesn't mean that she didn't have n.1's raw power (read "yoki").

Last edited by MalakTawus; 2012-01-30 at 13:01.
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Old 2012-01-30, 12:54   Link #22
Shiek927
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Originally Posted by Gooral
Anyway, I hope that Yagi won't go this way since Alicia and Beth needed years of training, practically they were being trained since they were infants so Yuma and Cynthia accomplishing it on their first try (and not with their twins but Claymores with bodies and minds almost completely unfamiliar to them) would be just too much for me to buy.
Who says it will be flawless?

These guys have no idea what they are doing - I thought their was more to soul-linking then just syncronizing your yoki; these guys are just, typically, pulling some crazy idea in hopes it makes them stand a better chance. Simply syncing your yoki may seem the same in principle, but I highly doubt it will be that easy.

The, probably to our annoyance, thing is though, it will probably work and/or, by some dumb luck, both of these guys will come out of this experience totally okay and all too ready to try this again next time, and probably with better results.

Since this is such a crude experiment and they only get one try to make it work (over the Org who has had years, since A&B were infants really, to experiment to get the best results)

I hope it's not so easy, even if this works at all - that Helen and Deneve are out of control, or at the very least, berserk...I'm not sure I'm gonna be crazy if the Ghosts have their very own Alicia and Beth like this...at least so easily - it just feels like another embodiment of them pulling something out of nowhere and it just so happens to work flawlessly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus
Feel free to believe it but dont force your opinion on us either, I reject your reality on that matter and substaitute my own where awakening doesnt equal a 100% of warrior form but 100% is when they reach the start of there next level of power. It was literally proven to be the case for everyone when Cassandra went from weaker to ~ the same as Roxanne to being able to defeat her with ease.
.....Well, yeah - normal warriors don't have exponential growth like Priscilla did; they aren't going to automatically become the strongest they ever theoritically could be in one go - they are just going to awaken on par with how powerful they currently were as warriors; a weak warrior is going to be a weak Awakened; Awakened Clarice isn't gonna suddenly snap Priscilla's neck off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus
but then again I'm noting to think anyone has died this arc until it is confirmed by a corpse due to Miria, Audrey, Rachel, Nina, and Raftela all "dying" too
Pff, Death has really lost alot of it's substance lately hasn't it?
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Old 2012-01-30, 13:14   Link #23
fraktur
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
Awakened Clarice isn't gonna suddenly snap Priscilla's neck off.
shiek stop beeing such a fanboy. clarice is the destroyer of worlds!

spoiler seems ok. have to see how that's handled in the chapter before i can form a proper opinion.

on a sidenote: why was i negged for my last post?
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Old 2012-01-30, 13:28   Link #24
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Tried to make sense of that dizzying translation. Based on my interpretation, Anastasia won't be kicking the bucket. It seems Miria will awaken her legs a la Clare and be just in time to block Hysteria as she goes for Anastasia. Hysteria goes for Miria, but Anastasia manages to cushion the blow using her hair.

Hm, never thought of Anastasia's hair having the toughness to manage to do that. We never really got proof that it has enough toughness to withstand anything greater than a claymore's weight. In this case, this may be just what they need against Hysteria—a finely tangled web of hair that'll slow her down just by enough to make her a viable target. It's a funny thought, an AO with spider-like legs getting caught in a web.

As for an awakened Helen and Deneve having a chance against Hysteria, well, we'll have to wait and see. If the Anastasia hypothesis turns out to be true, then they just might have a chance. Without the speed factor, Hysteria seems relatively weak for an AO strength- and durability-wise. If Hysteria keeps her speed, I say they'll still fall flat on their asses. Sure, they're probably be equivalent to single-digit ABs (probably ~No. 3-5), but what can those do against an AO. We know power isn't exactly additive in this world. Besides, as Gooral has pointed out, Yuma and Cynthia would be sitting ducks. I doubt they have Beth's ability to evade while synched, and it's not like any of the other claymores have the strength to even stop Hysteria once she targets those two.

If Miria joins in, well, the fun begins... I doubt she'd be able to match Hysteria's speed, though. Also, given the amount of injuries she has sustained, I seriously doubt she can still join in. She's probably out of yoki after fighting for so long. It's not like Cynthia or Yuma can transfer their own yoki to Miria...
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Old 2012-01-30, 13:40   Link #25
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Pretty sure Anastasia herself said the hair isn't strong enough to do anything to AB.
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Old 2012-01-30, 13:52   Link #26
Ryus
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On cell with limited time get back at shieky and malak in a few hours when i get home.

Anyways as to the hair not being that tough... well yes it's true a single strand can only support a single warriors weight, however could a thousand hairs block an AO or at least slow her down. Scientists have been trying to make spider webs/silk into next gen bullet proof armor and it works better than kevlar (forgive spelling if i got that wrong), the current problems come in manufacturing as to the main reason it hasnt been implamented on a wider scale. So Anastasia hair could theoritically stop a charging AO if enough of them are working together to stop her (especially if woven together very well).

As to Anastasia saying it couldnt stop an AO it was nike not Anastasia and she was referring only to a single stand of hair being able to support a warrior but not an AB. So nothing thus far says this couldnt happen.
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Old 2012-01-30, 15:06   Link #27
Shiek927
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shiek stop beeing such a fanboy. clarice is the destroyer of worlds!

spoiler seems ok. have to see how that's handled in the chapter before i can form a proper opinion.

on a sidenote: why was i negged for my last post?
Roflmao, hey, I'm a Clarice fan too; I think Gooral made a hilarious fake-spoiler at one point where she was a Ninja

Ehh, it's that time of the month where lurkers suddenly show up before they disappear again.....the same goes for neg-reppers, Mods and every other group you can think of.
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Old 2012-01-30, 15:30   Link #28
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Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
(...) I think Gooral made a hilarious fake-spoiler at one point where she was a Ninja (...)
It wasn't a spoiler but explanation of Clarice's strange behaviour ;P.

BTW, I saw Jump SQ ToC and Claymore again is near the bottom in the ranking (closer to bottom than to the top). I hope it will improve soon, otherwise it might even get cancelled ;P.
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Old 2012-01-30, 15:57   Link #29
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I want to see something of Roxanne. From what we've already gotten, I'm afraid she'll get off-paneled once again.
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Old 2012-01-30, 16:05   Link #30
Shiek927
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It wasn't a spoiler but explanation of Clarice's strange behaviour ;P.

BTW, I saw Jump SQ ToC and Claymore again is near the bottom in the ranking (closer to bottom than to the top). I hope it will improve soon, otherwise it might even get cancelled ;P.
ROFLMAO, there it is!!!

As for Claymore's popularity.....ugh, I don't know what to say -- if anything, this could force Yagi to be even more conventional and cliche just to drive the readers back up if he wasn't intentionally trying to be in the first place.

A story as ambigious as this, including in fan-appeal, I'm not sure what can be done to appease the masses...
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Old 2012-01-30, 16:14   Link #31
Tom Bombadil
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Originally Posted by little_angel View Post
found this and I dont know if it is even a spoiler but they(the people commenting on this) are discussing Miria :
Spoiler for Size:
Spoiler for rough translation.:
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Old 2012-01-30, 16:28   Link #32
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That sounds so predictable that it must be legit.
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Old 2012-01-30, 16:32   Link #33
Shiek927
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That sounds so predictable that it must be legit.
I'm inclined to agree - this seems even more likely then the last one; I certainly like it better, especially in how difficult the situation is for everyone.

What gets me though is the lack of Roxanne and Cassandra again - if this spoiler is true, maybe they will show up, but at least give us a panel of them or something.
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Old 2012-01-30, 16:35   Link #34
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Spoiler for rough translation.:
Nick is likely = Nike the new loudmouth number 15 with gaint eye brows and whom is friends with Anastasia (she lost her sword hand (and sword) at end of last chapter). So by grabbing the sword shes likely just grabbing the next available sword to continue fighting and hopefully she'll try to slice her head in half when pulling it out like Clare did to the yoma in the holy city when he impaled himself on her sword so she couldn't stab him somewhere else
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Old 2012-01-30, 16:53   Link #35
SpiritOfGray
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The thing that gets me is this sounds like an alternate version of last chapter. Another brawl with Hysteria. Only Miria can save the day. We are then left with the exact same feelings because nothing happens that will matter 5 chapters from now. I really hope that I'm just over reacting. I think it's just the fact that I've only been able to love 1 other manga besides Claymore. I can't stand the thought of this becoming like the the rest of the things I force myself to read.

And I'm not saying this fight is worth skipping or something. It's just that a lot so far had been build up this arc, and now it feels like build up within a build up.
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Old 2012-01-30, 17:04   Link #36
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oh god, deneve opens her mouth again...
great lines incoming
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Old 2012-01-30, 17:07   Link #37
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I have to agree that these spoilers indicate another chapter without an end and merely a build up, but I for one wouldn't have it any other way.
It would be quite pathethic if an AO gets killed off in like 1 chapter, or that the entire ghost party(As truthful to the suggested powerlevels as it may seem) gets killed in 1 chapter.

Obviously due to having to wait for a month, I believe we get an increased urge for major plot twists, so as to give the impression that a pace is still being kept. I just hope, even though this arc seems drawn out, that it gets a complete amount of work put into it. (Do want more background on Hystie and Roxanne)
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Old 2012-01-30, 17:27   Link #38
Shiek927
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oh god, deneve opens her mouth again...
great lines incoming
Roflmao, I just realized that.....way to patronize your leader

I guess given the circumstances though, I might forgive it - they all did undeniably save Miria's life, especially after she abandoned them. At this point, she does deserved to be whuped, especially verbally...

But does it have to be Deneve? Can't another character talk cool at for a little while?

The thing is, when, say, Yuma says something cool, it's great....but when Dr.D says something, it just makes me want to smack her
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Old 2012-01-30, 17:55   Link #39
Claymore!
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But does it have to be Deneve? Can't another character talk cool at for a little while?
Miria did that last chapter. She explaned the whole Hysteria traction thing. And it still doesn't bother me if Deneve analyzes a situation. She is intelligent and observant. So why shouldn't she tell the others about what she has discovered.
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Old 2012-01-30, 17:59   Link #40
MalakTawus
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It wasn't a spoiler but explanation of Clarice's strange behaviour ;P.

BTW, I saw Jump SQ ToC and Claymore again is near the bottom in the ranking (closer to bottom than to the top). I hope it will improve soon, otherwise it might even get cancelled ;P.
This may sound strange,but if it's true (not that i don't belive you,Gooral) i wouldn't be too sad 'cause this could force Yagi to focus again to Claire.
Let's be honest here, the instant the story will return to focus on Claire and Priscilla will be the instant where Claymore will return once again to do very well in the rankings,everyone know it,surely even Yagi.
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