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Old 2004-12-16, 06:19   Link #41
MeggieMay
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Well I ran into something I didn't realize about Mu earlier this week that could play into this in the long run.

In a G SEED discussion earlier this week (not sure what BBS), someone was commenting that some of the names of the characters in Gundam SEED seem to have meanings related to said characters. In particular Rau Le Creuset last name means "crucible" in French. It then occured to me that I didn't know what "Flaga" or "Endymion" (as in Hawk of Endymion, Mu's nickname) meant. I still haven't figure out what Flaga (or even Fllaga) is suppose to mean but I had to go when I looked up "Endymion."

Now I knew "Endymion" was a place on the Moon, and that most likely made him or her a character out of Greek or Latin mythology, but I didn't know the story behind the name. So I looked it up. It seems Endymion was a lover of Seline, the Greek moon goddess, and he was granted eternal life via eternal sleep (some webpages I found on this are
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/e/endymion.html
http://homepage.mac.com/cparada/GML/Endymion.html ).

Anyway, I'm not sure if this has any real importants on this discussion other than Rau did act as a "crucible" in Gundam SEED, so maybe the names occasionally have clues to the storylines .
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Old 2004-12-16, 08:35   Link #42
sarcasteak
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Well, you may be on to something, but Mwu got the nickname "Hawk of Endymion" for his heorics in the Battle of Endymion which is at (surprise!) Endymion, which is a location/area/city near/around/on the moon. ^_^;;
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Old 2004-12-16, 09:18   Link #43
KoroshiyaX
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Okay, I re-watched the Seed special #6 just because I just remembered something that could be relevant to this debate, and potentially prove whether he is alive or not.

After Mwu supposedly died, Klueze went off to that area of space and spots Strike's decapitated head. Kira shows up and starts fighting. However, as he shows up, Klueze's psychic alarm goes off, and he looks to the right and also dodges Kira's attack right after. I always just assumed it was pre-cognition to Kira's attack. But now that I really think about it, Klueze should only have this pre-cognition go off when someone with his bloodline is nearby, in other words, Mwu.

I believe Mwu to be alive because of this. And that it was only a coincidence that Klueze's pre-cog went off just as Kira attacked him. Perhaps the production team overlapped these events on purpose so we wouldn't think anything of it or be suspicious.

It happened twice. I'm using the dvd special that has 5+6 together as reference.

The first occured at 1:16:18 and the second at 1:22:07

What do you all think?

He's the "Make the impossible, possible" man after all. It would be a good twist to the story if Bogey 1 Man is Mwu. Bogeyman :P

I could be imagining things.. but I'm one of those who want him to be alive. I think Destiny has kinda been boring so far, compared to Seed.

Last edited by KoroshiyaX; 2004-12-16 at 09:35.
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Old 2004-12-16, 10:41   Link #44
dreamless
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no info says those pseudo-NTs can only pre-cog blood-related people. Krueze pre-cog Kira once before in his duel with Mwu.
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Old 2004-12-16, 11:38   Link #45
Enrivera
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Following the line of thinking of the lady here, I looked up Flaga....I came out with something really wierd.

Apparently he is a demon or magitian that could ride eagles in scandinavian myths. That is litteraly all the information that I found. So that leaves me in the dark, however the eagle and also Endymioin (proably mispelled it) and being the only person that could ride eagles, maybe it mean that in a sense he can't be killed.
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Old 2004-12-16, 22:51   Link #46
MeggieMay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcasteak
Well, you may be on to something, but Mwu got the nickname "Hawk of Endymion" for his heorics in the Battle of Endymion which is at (surprise!) Endymion, which is a location/area/city near/around/on the moon. ^_^;;
I mentioned I knew that . BTW, it is a real place on the Moon, not just something made up for the show - almost all landmarks on Earth's Moon are named after things out of Greek or Roman mythology.

Anyway, I don't think what I found out about the Endymion myth proves anything about whether Mu is Neo or not (it doesn't) - I just found it interesting. Plus they could have given Mu another nickname/set the battle at another location since that part of the Gundam SEED story was not shown in the show but happened prior to the events of the original series. So I think the name does have some significance, though it may not be connected to this situation at all.
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Old 2004-12-16, 23:45   Link #47
Neaco
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I'm a super Mwu fan, but if Neo turns out to be Mwu, I'll kill the SEED writers. His sacrifice was noble and should be left at that.

All the rumors about Mwu being alive are of three things
1. The supposed removal of Fraga's helmet in the SEED special. The most significant one. Why did they do that?
2. Maryu kneeling in the Destiny ED, which could be a decoy. Anything in the ED should be taken with a grain of salt.
3. Fraga and Neo's VA are the same. The smoking gun that means they are the same? Course not. Rey has Klueze's VA but Rey definity isn't Klueze.

Another thing to note I think is that Mwu main purpose was to fight his arch rival Klueze. With Klueze dead, there's no one for him to fight in Destiny unless they pull out another clone which would make it ridiculous.

Voice arn't usually taken very seriously in a show, but maybe the Maryu thing may very well be that he sounds like Mwu so she thinks it's him and is fooled because of the mask, when it turns out he is someone else. Highly doubtful on this one tho.
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Old 2004-12-16, 23:48   Link #48
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personally i found mwu to be one of the best characters if not the best. so with that said i think him comming back would take away the impact that his death had in seed. but that just my opinion
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Old 2004-12-16, 23:59   Link #49
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Under 3, I think you can lump voice (and the voice is not just the same voice actor, but speaking style - the same seiyuu can sound quite different if he wants, for example he sound quite different as Lion-san in Futatsu no Spica, and Kiryuu Touga in Utena... but he still sounds like he's talking like Mwu as Neo...) and looks also - he seems to have roughly the same build, same colour of hair and style of hair (wavy) as Mwu.

I really do want to have faith in the creators that they won't do something so stupid as bring him back, but there were so many contrived points and absurdities in SEED that ehe...
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Old 2004-12-17, 00:05   Link #50
Neaco
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yea I forgot the hair color one hehe.

He did have the best quote in the show (impossible possible) I would love to hear it again, er no. He is gone and will remain so! But then Andrew did it so why can't, no he died in space so that's different. aghh darn SEED! ANd if he doesn't show up then Maryu and Andy might... Guess we'll all wait and see!
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Old 2004-12-17, 02:17   Link #51
MeggieMay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neaco
I'm a super Mwu fan, but if Neo turns out to be Mwu, I'll kill the SEED writers. His sacrifice was noble and should be left at that.

All the rumors about Mwu being alive are of three things
1. The supposed removal of Fraga's helmet in the SEED special. The most significant one. Why did they do that?
2. Maryu kneeling in the Destiny ED, which could be a decoy. Anything in the ED should be taken with a grain of salt.
3. Fraga and Neo's VA are the same. The smoking gun that means they are the same? Course not. Rey has Klueze's VA but Rey definity isn't Klueze.
Well someone else pointed out you missed the situation where they look similar and then there's Neo's ID card that's in one of the singles that's coming out ( http://www.sunrise-anime.jp/sunnews_...2101615130.jpg ). According to it, Neo has the same blood type as Mu and if I'm reading the top number right Neo and Mu seem to be the same age (if Y44 equals CE 44, that makes Neo 30).

Quote:
Another thing to note I think is that Mwu main purpose was to fight his arch rival Klueze. With Klueze dead, there's no one for him to fight in Destiny unless they pull out another clone which would make it ridiculous.
However, Neo and Rey are doing a Newtype flash at each other so something's up there, IMO. They've obviously changed there minds on Mu and Rau being the last of the Newtypes, though whether it will have any connection in the long run to a Mu/Neo connection has yet to be seen.

Anyway, I whole heartedly agree that the VA being the same is the weakest clue going. The strongest clue in my mind isn't the individual clues but the entire situation. Between taking out the helmet in the SE version of SEED and the ED, I believe that the show producers are clearly trying to play up the idea of Neo possibly being Mu, right or wrong (the ID card is yet another amusing part of this campaign). What actually happens with this situation is still up in the air. Yet it still needs to be discussed since the shows producers obviously want those following the shows to do so (if they didn't want us to debate this situation, they wouldn't be dropping hints).

That said, I think there are other issues about the Neo character that are getting lost. Personally, I'm trying to also take the character Neo and his actions at face value, while also thinking about the Mu issue (i.e. seeing them as seperate issues). IMO, no matter who Neo turns out to be he isn't your average masked character from a Gundam series, as he's been portrayed so far. He seems a lot more competent than Rau and more level headed in general. Neo also managed to pull off a similar snatch and grab on the Gundams to the original one Rau did in SEED, yet Neo managed to keep the fatalites down and not blow up the PLANT being attacked in question. We also didn't see Neo make a appearence during the PLANT drop to make any comments. That made me wonder if Neo may not be a possible good guy/redemable bad guy in the works, no matter who he turns out to be.

Anyway, discussing whether or not Neo is Mu isn't going to change anything but neither is not discussing it. At least by having a on going discussion of the possiblite that Neo is Mu it allows those who are interested in the characters and questions to vent some ideas and try to work out as a group what in the world is going on with this part of the story .
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Old 2004-12-18, 13:34   Link #52
EpyonEmerald
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I am male,

I cried when Mwu Died,

If Mwu comes back,

I will smile and do seven deeds,

If Mwu does not come back, I will do nine horrible deeds.

I love Mwu more then all of you combine.

Mwu can make the impossible possible, he said so before he died,

Thus hes foreshadowing that he will come back.

Those who don't believe should get in a time machine and transport back in time to when Janius 7 was nuked and those who claim it will make the impact worse I have one sign for you :fingers:
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Old 2004-12-20, 01:03   Link #53
TarugsikPark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enrivera
After seeing episode 49 of Gundam Seed I noticed that Stike had came out and exploted. But the area where the pilot is (chest) din't got hit directly. I sometimes wander, if its a big plot like Andrew Bartfield explosion to let you think that he is dead. The chracter that suprise me a lot and has a lot of resemblance to Mwu is the new Colonel of EA. After seeing the way he fought with the mobile armor it leads me to believe, that there is a chance that it might be a clone of somewhat related to Mwu.

Although it dosen't make sense because Mwu is very loyal to his belief and he is arguable one of the main chracters in putting the Archangel under Orb.

My question is do you think he is alive, or that he is going to do a apperance?
I think Mwu is Neo thats what I think., because they are similar and the way he think, moved and talk.
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Old 2004-12-20, 02:03   Link #54
Leo_Otaku
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Well Neo is Mwu's voice actor 0_o I think they are the same....
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Old 2004-12-20, 04:45   Link #55
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Well if mwu does come back it would HAVE to be a clone. Reguard less if he escaped from the ccockpit or not, his helmut was of his head, and all space suits are pressurized because in space there is no outside pressure so your bodies interio pressure will make your blood and other fluids expand cause well you to explode. its the exact opposite of what happens when you are deep enough in the sea to cause your body to be crushed by the greater watter pressure

Then again this is an anime which is subject to some of the most illogical plot twists.....
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Old 2004-12-20, 09:58   Link #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroitatsu
Well if mwu does come back it would HAVE to be a clone. Reguard less if he escaped from the ccockpit or not, his helmut was of his head, and all space suits are pressurized because in space there is no outside pressure so your bodies interio pressure will make your blood and other fluids expand cause well you to explode. its the exact opposite of what happens when you are deep enough in the sea to cause your body to be crushed by the greater watter pressure

Then again this is an anime which is subject to some of the most illogical plot twists.....
I'd rather it actually be Mwu than yet another clone/lookalike(don't we already have enough of those in this series?).

Also, it would be a interesting development if the masked blonde does _not_ turn out to the the main antagonist in a Gundam series. What could more boring than yet another crazed psycho like Rau?

1. The specials which came out later has the same scene, but with the helmet removed. Likely, this is to make him more probable for him to survive.

2. Maybe that's a spare helmet he keeps around the cockpit or something. You know, on the off chance he gets some hot chick as a passenger(like Kira earlier).

3. The whole 'blood boiling/exploding in space'' thing is a myth.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...rs/970603.html

Granted, the explosion and lack of air would be enough to do him in.

Last edited by glyph; 2004-12-20 at 12:14.
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Old 2004-12-20, 15:27   Link #57
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oh really thats interesting. oh well the radiation would still kill you anyways along the with lack of air and explosion
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Old 2004-12-20, 15:51   Link #58
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And since when is SEED realistic? Or Gundam for that matter. I think the answer is never.
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Old 2004-12-20, 16:54   Link #59
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REalistic or not: Strike was completely destroyed.You see a nice explosion.And there's no way he could survive that.
In bartfeld's case we don't see directly the MS exploding,we see an explosion but that's alll(at least that's what I remember)so we don't know exactly what are the damage.
But in ep49,we see the lohengrin cannon destroying Strike.It's a miracle that the helmet "survived".We see strike a second later it isn't there.And if he was still alive,then the Archengel was the only ship able to save him.It would be ridiculous and stupid to resurrect him.Neo and Mwu are related,that's certain but they are not the same person.Just watch ep49.It's impossible.The only character of SEED who did
it was Bartfeld and he lost an arm and an eye.
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Old 2004-12-20, 20:31   Link #60
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How _did_ the helmet survive anyway? That makes rather little sense... >_<;
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