AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Claymore

Notices

View Poll Results: Claymore - Chapter 123 Rating
Perfect 10 3 7.50%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 4 10.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 7 17.50%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 37.50%
6 out of 10 : Average 8 20.00%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 2.50%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 5.00%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-01-31, 02:15   Link #101
Shiek927
Thread Hijacker
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
Here's my breaking down of things:

Nike walks up bravely/terrified, and pulls out her sword...in an instant, she cuts off Hysteria's leg, and Tabitha/Deneve immediatly swoop in and pull Ana away....

Nike quickly tries to swipe at Hysteria, but to her shock, she isn't going for her at all, but for Ana and the others...she even seems to power-up if her vengeful face means anything...

But in that moment, Miria jumps her...

If Miria indeed jumped her while she was zooming, and especially after she powered up, that does imply that Miria was indeed faster then her....the way I see it then, is that, she only powered up the exact moment Miria jumped her and was actually travelling slow, or at least, slow enough that she could call back to Nike and presumably mock her.

"Slow" is relative considering how those two panels on page 24 show her catching up to Ana and co very fast, and we're assuming that they are racing with everything they've got....ehh, it all feels very close (and by close, I mean the line between plausible and unplausible); considering this is base Miria we're talking about, (extreme) luck is undeniably involved in order to keep things logical. Hysteria just didn't expect her coming at all, though I can see how that wouldn't be enough for some people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral
@Shiek
The problem here is, when Miria caught up with her (which implies she was faster than her) she wasn't that arrogant any more and if she was indeed above Miria's league she wouldn't even stop but instantly kill Ana and her carriers and went back for Miria in a split of a second (something what Rigaldo did). Now that would be awesome. But no, she turns out to be not even of Rigaldo level it seems...
*shrug....Speed always was Rigardo's forte....but Rigardo was certainly no Abyssal either... (it's suddenly occurred to me that we've never seen his kind of speed shown ever again; not this multiple-killing in a split second like he did)

Ehh, I guess she was caught by surprise so much, that she just totally abandoned the others and went straight back for the pest Miria; thinking she could finish the others easily when she's done (and frankly, if Miria is staying in base form, she's making it easy for her).

I know it may not seem like much, but I'm trying hard to rationalize things
__________________
"You know, their are as many ways to live as their are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look."

Last edited by Shiek927; 2012-01-31 at 02:31.
Shiek927 is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 02:35   Link #102
Gooral
Firefly/Serenity fanatic
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiek927 View Post
*shrug....Speed always was Rigardo's forte....but Rigardo was certainly no Abyssal either...
That's why I find it hard to believe that Hysteria is of Abyssal level. Since their introduction we were told AOs are in a completely different league than the rest of ABs. Isley, even though much more powerful and bigger than Rigaldo (who was at least as fast as Miria's fastest phantom without going over her limit) was faster than lion king, there was such a difference. Now Miria and others are supposedly facing the fastest AB ever and what do we see? Everyone can stand their ground against her and Miria seems to be faster than her even though she was slower than unawakened Hysteria, lol. And Hysteria is bound to be killed by Dr. Deneve and her team which will really show how broken power levels are.
Gooral is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 02:53   Link #103
Shiek927
Thread Hijacker
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
Maybe the answer goes back to what I said one time in that the ressurecction short-changed them - awakening was inevitable given their circumstances...maybe they got short-changed in the power-aspect and they didn't come out as strong as they should have, even though they are indeed No.1's -- perhaps Hysteria was supposed to get wings and she didn't....

That line of thinking makes sense when you consider that Hysteria was indeed faster then Miria as a human...

(then again, I think those words are relative...... she couldn't win through conventional methods and had to use cleverness and the whole sword-in-mouth thing...that whole battle was a technique vs technique show...Hysteria was going to eventually win if Miria didn't pull it off....so.....yeah, nevermind - alright: she was indeed faster then her.)

I'm not sure though on a few things - one, that Hysteria is supposed to be the "fastest" AB/AO ever - maybe I forgot, but when was that said? and everyone can stand their ground?

I disagree....if anything, Hysteria has been in command of this fight all along - in part, it doesn't feel that way because Hysteria is still experimenting with her new body; trying to fly for instance...that's why I think it seems the others actually have a chance with her....more and more since she's awakened though, I think it's becoming more plain that the odds are going further into Hysteria's favor, as well they should be.

The only thing that gets in the way of that is here - when Miria catches up with her, though I think my idea of her immediately pouncing her when she powers up is right - because once Hysteria sees Miria, her face is immediatly back to normal....so she couldn't have charged up too much if she changed back so quickly.
__________________
"You know, their are as many ways to live as their are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look."
Shiek927 is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 03:02   Link #104
Gooral
Firefly/Serenity fanatic
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 28
@Shiek
As Malak pointed out earlier, no other AB had such problems with stopping as Hysteria had (besides Clare but she wasn't exactly AB) which suggests she reached impossible speeds (i.e. she's the fastest AB we've seen, Priscilla excluded maybe). As for everyone being able to stand their ground, well, no one died right? And somehow Hysteria couldn't kill anyone even though she had over 30 pages in this chapter alone ;P. Nike and Deneve are unscathed, Helen wasn't even hit (as always) and the ones that were hit have been protected. So as a group they can easily stand their ground against her.
Gooral is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 03:13   Link #105
Shiek927
Thread Hijacker
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
I think I'm actually willingly to accept she may be the fastest AB we've seen yet (barring Priscilla perhaps)....what clinches it is, her phantoms in the air.....we've never seen anyone doing that besides Miria - certainly not an Abyssal - not Riful, not Alicia, not Isley....she's the only one on her, presumably AO, level who has ever done this; that says alot.

Deneve, by the way, called all three of them "Abyssal-level opponents"....so even if Hysteria, and all the others, have indeed not reached their full potential because of hiccups in the ressurection....they are still strong enough to have that label which, well, is alot.

So if they had any serious issues, like the Ghosts being able to catch them, it can't be because of power and must be other reasons - you can't be an Abyssal and others can catch if you if it's not deliberate....that's impossible and/or embarrassing.

I think, again, Miria's surprise-hit is going to boil down to extreme luck - even if she was deliberately going slow to berate Nike some more....even if she only powered up the very second Miria pounced her (which is true, if my face analysis is right)....it's all relative because, being as fast as she presumably is, that's still veerrrry fast; it feels like a stretch to say she slowed herself down THAT much, especially considering how close she was gaining on Ana and co....

And this is base Miria we're talking about....suddenly I think the whole thing has crossed the line to straight up inplausible/complete luck.

But as for them holding their ground.....Gooral, you don't expect Yagi to kill off a bunch of his main characters all at once do you?

That's what it is - it's not that they can't stand against her, it's just that Hysteria either seemingly misses them all (reasoning is probably still lack of control on her part - this Claire-berserker speed she has now may not even last; she probably will control herself more very shortly), or most of the Ghosts die in one shot. Pick your choice

Yeah, that's really what it is I think; may seem like a bad excuse, but...
__________________
"You know, their are as many ways to live as their are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look."
Shiek927 is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 03:27   Link #106
Gooral
Firefly/Serenity fanatic
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 28
@Shiek
If she misses them even though she has so much bigger body and wires/limbs that could cut in half any Claymore at her speed if she bothered to stretch them, then she completely sucks. And you surely don't believe any Claymore will die? ;P
Gooral is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 03:33   Link #107
Shiek927
Thread Hijacker
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In a hole, I just need to dig myself out
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
@Shiek
If she misses them even though she has so much bigger body and wires/limbs that could cut in half any Claymore at her speed if she bothered to stretch them, then she completely sucks. And you surely don't believe any Claymore will die? ;P
Roflmao, then she completely sucks, or she is still getting used to her body to such a degree, that her accuracy is pitiful, or Yagi didn't want to derail the story and kill of...what, three Ghosts in one shot ....call it what you will

(Ironically, said ghosts are Tabitha, Helen and Deneve....who don't have the best reputation at the moment; I'd miss them, and people would too, though I imagine many people would say 'good riddance' at first, since the first things they remember is Dr.D, Helen's stupidity that thwarts death, and Tabitha's lack of importance )

Do I believe a Claymore will die? Well, I'm hoping somebody besides the ZAOs dies around here...if Yagi keeps pulling off surprisingly exciting moments filled with tension like this mexican-standoff he had going on in this one, he may make me (almost) forget that no-one has died in a very very very long time...

.....

.....You know, in a cosmic sort of way, it really is something how so many of us are hoping for blood and guts .

Anyway, It's extremely late over here - I'm going to bed now
__________________
"You know, their are as many ways to live as their are people in this world...and each one deserves a closer look."
Shiek927 is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 03:49   Link #108
manmmlala
Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
@Shiek
If she misses them even though she has so much bigger body and wires/limbs that could cut in half any Claymore at her speed if she bothered to stretch them, then she completely sucks. And you surely don't believe any Claymore will die? ;P
i can read Chinese so...

Hysteria deliberately didn't kill any of the warriors, she said in this chapter that if someone is willing to pull that sword out, she would let her live, she mentioned that she couldn't be so kind (as in the last chapter) anymore, and if no one would pull the sword out for her, she would mince everyone so that she could swallow them

n eventually, Nike volunteered, and as promised, after the sword had been pulled out, Hysteria said she would not kill Nike and she went to hunt others instead

--

miria's monologues and the dialogues between miria and deneve explained well that it's impossible for everyone to survive, deneve even criticized miria that she is too perfectionist, it is naive to hope that all warriors could survive in reality, and it is perfectly okay that some of them die in the battle <-- i think u guys should read the english translation later, i quite like the lines by deneve, it is like the old claymore style is back

imo this chapter makes many things so rational again

Last edited by manmmlala; 2012-01-31 at 04:04.
manmmlala is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 04:29   Link #109
Fermat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by manmmlala View Post
Spoiler for length:
So she's been holding back? While those words are supposed to be reassuring for people like me who are at a loss due to recent events, I just can't seem to shake off how much it seemed like she had actually been trying... There are so many inconsistencies.

I think Hysteria, having had the sword removed, was too fixated on the food to notice Miria. That's how I see it, because it wouldn't make sense any other way. The notion that Miria moved so fast that Hysteria wasn't able to detect her (recall Rigardo's musings upon the introduction of Clare's awakened legs) is ludicrous. Then again, when we look further along the scene, we see Hysteria not being able to reach Miria despite the latter changing directions multiple times, whereas she is apparently proceeding in a straight line. Ugh...

Also note how easily Nike (twice) and Dietrich (once) managed to cut off Hysteria's legs, whereas Miria wasn't able to. Does Miria's strength really suck that much? I recall her strength pre-timeskip was a C, so it's plausible. Still, it's quite hard to believe that those two are stronger than Miria in terms of raw strength.

Then there's the issue of Helen being able to dislodge Hysteria's blades. Examining several pages of Scene 122 immediately prior to Yuma speaking, we see that Hysteria supposedly shoots and retracts those blades at such speed that the holes don't appear to have blades embedded in them, and that the ones that do are mostly probably for explanatory purposes, and yet here's Helen, who manages to shoot at it while having sensory powers not even remotely close to Clare's.
Fermat is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 04:30   Link #110
Kain999
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
The sentence by Deneve implies that Miria knows she has no chance of winning but is plotting something against Hysteria by using the other 2 DAOs.

Any speculations?
My speculation:
Maybe to lure her into the fray and then using Anastasia hairs, all of them infuse their yoki to the strands and trap her momentarily there?
Kain999 is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 04:37   Link #111
Fenrir_valindri
Miria's #1 Disciple
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
I really don't see Miria "catching-up" to Hysteria as Miria being faster, so much as Miria planned to intercept her in the first place.

AKA: They grab Anastasia and run away with her, Hysteria chases them.
Miria, expecting this, was already headed to cut her off before she actually got moving.

That is what makes the most sense to me, but some people would probably rather ignore that and continue to complain about speed differences.

------------

I also get the feeling the game plan is to drag Hysteria into Cassandra vs Roxanne and have all three of the new Abyssal Ones at each others throats.
__________________
http://i.imgur.com/rZD75r9.jpg
Fenrir_valindri is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 04:46   Link #112
Kain999
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Speculation no 2:
Miria's superman pose seems to be grabbing hold of Anastasia hairs,
maybe using it as an elastic springboard to increase her speed?

But doesn't really sound feasible to me....
Kain999 is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 06:57   Link #113
little_angel
Watching From Above
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Jordan
Haven't read and won't read anything just wanna say Malak my theory (number 2) was right and no need to say that there was something wrong about it coz the chapter tells it all!!!!!!!
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=80178&dateline=121256  0377
little_angel is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 07:31   Link #114
MalakTawus
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
@Ryus

Spoiler for long:
MalakTawus is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 07:35   Link #115
Friday
Im shy too...
 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Invercargill Southland, New Zealand
Spoiler for why....:


can't wait for the translation if one of my theories come true

Quote:
Miria ask Cassandra for her help, if she not to busy with Roxanne....
Friday is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 07:53   Link #116
Gooral
Firefly/Serenity fanatic
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by manmmlala View Post
(...) Hysteria deliberately didn't kill any of the warriors, she said in this chapter that if someone is willing to pull that sword out, she would let her live, she mentioned that she couldn't be so kind (as in the last chapter) anymore, and if no one would pull the sword out for her, she would mince everyone so that she could swallow them
See, that's why Firefly >> all.
Spoiler for one of the best scenes in the history of TV:
Her attitude is lame, instead of being so generous she should have killed Claymores one by one until someone would do what she told. In other words she should be more like Rigaldo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri View Post
I really don't see Miria "catching-up" to Hysteria as Miria being faster, so much as Miria planned to intercept her in the first place.

AKA: They grab Anastasia and run away with her, Hysteria chases them.
Miria, expecting this, was already headed to cut her off before she actually got moving.(...)
What? Hysteria was already on the move before Miria caught up with her (she ran past Nike) so I don't see how it's even possible. Even if Miria would be closer to where Deneve, Tabatha and Ana were heading she still wouldn't know when to start running to intercept Hysteria. And how would Hysteria miss her in the first place? Not to mention that by the way she was attacked (i.e. from behind so she wasn't heading towards her in the opposite direction or even from the side) she had to be faster than her. The only way it's possible is that Hysteria was still playing with her food and was too focused on her hunt to notice Miria. But Miria had to be faster in order to attack as she did. Unless she jumped from a thread but I don't see how she could have such perfect timing.

And as Fermat wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermat
Then again, when we look further along the scene, we see Hysteria not being able to reach Miria despite the latter changing directions multiple times, whereas she is apparently proceeding in a straight line. Ugh...
BTW, Fermat, nicely observed that Miria couldn't cut her legs but Nike and Dee didn't have such problems...
Gooral is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 08:23   Link #117
fraktur
extraordinary freak storm
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Italy
Quote:
BTW, Fermat, nicely observed that Miria couldn't cut her legs but Nike and Dee didn't have such problems...
by that logic deneve was also unable to cut hysterias legs. both parried an attack of her.
it's quiet obvious that the plot demands them to cut her legs to free anastacia etc. it's not an indicator of strengh

what bugs me is that the page with anastacia on hysterias legs is a rehash of older panels (claire getting her head slammed in the ground, and the hysteria ones from the last chapter). also it seems to be too deneve centric for my taste.
edit: hysterias gameface looks like 2 puppies playing in a flowery meadow
fraktur is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 08:32   Link #118
Gooral
Firefly/Serenity fanatic
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The town where Copernicus was born.
Age: 28
@fraktur
I remember Deneve parrying Hysteria's attack but I don't remember her trying to cut her legs. Which page was that? And page in your spoiler isn't shown since you're hotlinking.

Anyway, does anyone else find it strange that in Cassie vs. Roxanne fight there seems to be no progress even though so much time has passed?
Gooral is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 08:45   Link #119
MalakTawus
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Italy
@Gooral

You make some nice observation and critiques to this chapter about Histy's action,but imo you are forgetting a VERY SIMPLE point that could easily explain most(if not) all of your doubts about Histy:
what makes you think that she is not simply playing around with her opponents?
No,seriously,her attitude is exactly like someone that is not that serious.
Even if she can go at absurd speed,what makes you think that she isn't moving slower than her top speed? This could easily explain why Miria was able to jump at her (not to mention that Miria could also move in a different direction from Histy and have that advantage,it's not that Miria really outrun Histy,lol).
In the end Histy doesn't seem to be worried even one bit,so imo she's not even fighting seriously........and also it's a bit unfair to compare Histy with old AOs: she has awakened for the first time just a few minutes ago and she's clearly still playing around/ experimenting her new body, old abyssals instead were veterans in their awakened body and it makes sense that they were able to use their body to the fullest.
Probably that's exactly what Miria wants to use as an advantage,Histy's arrogance and maybe her low experience with her new body.


@little_angel
Quote:
Haven't read and won't read anything just wanna say Malak my theory (number 2) was right and no need to say that there was something wrong about it coz the chapter tells it all!!!!!!!
Yes,i admit that your second theory is actually on the mark,but tbh your second theory was based vastly on mine and Solace's theory (considering that in the beginning you belived that she losed her spikes while me and Soloce speculated that she didn't lose them at all,simply used and retracted),lol.
In the end i was wrong on two things mainly:
-one thing is the fact that i didn't belive realistic to obtain a good manouvrability using only one spike at a time (and tbh that should be 100% correct from a physics point of view,lol.....but in mangas this things don't work exactly as expected,hahaha),and on this point it seems that instead Yagi thinks like you that one spike is enough
-the other mistake is that i belived that what she did at the very could be something different from what she did initially (maybe i was tricked by the fact that Yagi seemed to put a good focus on Histy's last panels,as if she was about to do something new),and tbh it doesn't seems to be the case at all,lol
but the main mechanic of Histy's technique was very close to what actually happens: she doesn't lose her spikes at all,she use them and retracts them.

-----------------------------------------

Deneve,don't mind your haters,you look (i'll judge what she actually said later,when the eng version is out) super cool even in this chapter!!!

Last edited by MalakTawus; 2012-01-31 at 09:19.
MalakTawus is offline  
Old 2012-01-31, 08:49   Link #120
Ryus
The One Eyed King
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Lurking Up Ahead
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooral View Post
Anyway, does anyone else find it strange that in Cassie vs. Roxanne fight there seems to be no progress even though so much time has passed?
Yes and no. Yes since Yagi has a track record of fast forwarding to the end of AO fights. No since I never viewed Roxannes lack of ability in hitting Cassandra as a sign Roxanne was out classed, just Roxanne being surprised by Cassandras ability to dodge in that form. Also I was always kinda debating there 2 way AO fight becoming a 3 way fight and that couldn't happen if it was already over.

@manmmlala any clue from Deneve's comments about death... if we'll ever see it soon? and I'm going to be annoyed if "ms perfectionist miria" avoids causing any other warrior deaths by becoming the only casuality and sacrifices herself in some lame manner.

@malak chs out, moving on...
__________________
Ryus is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
claymore, dr. deneve, miria

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.