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Old 2004-12-21, 21:21   Link #241
[DOT].L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightman
The Logos are the TRUE organization that Azrael and Jibril work for... They are this shadowy organization who control the Earth military and how things on Earth are ran... Kind of like the Romefeller Foundation from Gundam Wing.

And likewise those old guys that Jibril was talking to were also members of Logos.
i thot they were blue cosmo..
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Old 2004-12-21, 21:34   Link #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [DOT].L
i thot they were blue cosmo..
Well, maybe... But the credits call them 'Logos'. And according to Newtype Japan, Logos is a separate fraction from the Blue Cosmos.
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Old 2004-12-21, 21:58   Link #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightman
Well, maybe... But the credits call them 'Logos'. And according to Newtype Japan, Logos is a separate fraction from the Blue Cosmos.
Sounds like something from Gundam Wing. Let's pray it turns out nothing like it. The initial rumor from that was that the Blue Cosmos and the Earth Alliance were being controlled behind the scenes from an even greater power. It really sounds like OZ and the United Earthsphere blah blah blah being controlled by Romefellar in Gundam Wing
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Old 2004-12-21, 22:03   Link #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver_Scorcher
Sounds like Romefellar from Gundam Wing. Let's pray it turns out nothing like it.
Yeah:

Quote:
Originally Posted by brightman
Kind of like the Romefeller Foundation from Gundam Wing.
But anyway, Jibril doesn't seem anything like anyone from Romefeller... Though seeing as how he seems to be in charge of the Girty Lue (a ship from the EA Special Forces) he could theoretically be the SEED version of Treize and the EASF could be a SEED version of OZ...
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Old 2004-12-21, 22:54   Link #245
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Little off topic
[Dot]. L: Where is your avatar from? I think I've seen the series but I can't remember it now...
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Old 2004-12-21, 23:05   Link #246
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[DOT].L Avatar is from evangelion The part where Misato kasuragi kisses Shinji Ikari ....That part will be somewhere at the end of Evangelion series.... am i correct
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Old 2004-12-21, 23:12   Link #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shift_
Little off topic
[Dot]. L: Where is your avatar from? I think I've seen the series but I can't remember it now...
answer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Die4
[DOT].L Avatar is from evangelion The part where Misato kasuragi kisses Shinji Ikari ....That part will be somewhere at the end of Evangelion series.... am i correct
yes u r correct..
although the "End of Evangelion" is a movie, not a series..
unless u meant the end of the "Evangelion series".. in that case u would only be half right..
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Old 2004-12-21, 23:13   Link #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightman
Yeah:



But anyway, Jibril doesn't seem anything like anyone from Romefeller... Though seeing as how he seems to be in charge of the Girty Lue (a ship from the EA Special Forces) he could theoretically be the SEED version of Treize and the EASF could be a SEED version of OZ...
"SEED version of Treize"?.....don't insult Traize by linking that Jibrill to him....Jibrill doesn't even have the slightest trace of honour in him...Jibrill is probably one of thoe ppl who wouldn't mind sending nis men to die just so that he can achieve his own selfish motive..... i'm willing to bet Jibrill has never even piloted a mobile suit or gone to a battle before.....at least Traize died in battle against Wu Fei...which was one of the most beautiful(and touching) Gundam deaths in my opinion....or maybe i'm just twisted
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Dreaming that Kira flies in on Freedom, Meteorizes Shinn just enought to teach him what it takes to be a protagonist, rams those nukes Jibrill and the EA bastards like so much into their throat. Oh....and seeing that Lacus clone taking a blast of Lacus Haro atack.
*Wakes up* Damn....Why did i wake up
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Old 2004-12-21, 23:19   Link #249
2Die4
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Yay it pays to know 1 violent kind of anime like evangelion
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Old 2004-12-21, 23:55   Link #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rei_Ikari
"SEED version of Treize"?.....don't insult Traize by linking that Jibrill to him....Jibrill doesn't even have the slightest trace of honour in him...Jibrill is probably one of thoe ppl who wouldn't mind sending nis men to die just so that he can achieve his own selfish motive..... i'm willing to bet Jibrill has never even piloted a mobile suit or gone to a battle before.....at least Traize died in battle against Wu Fei...which was one of the most beautiful(and touching) Gundam deaths in my opinion....or maybe i'm just twisted
I wasn't talking about these technicalities (though you actually found Trieze's death emotional? ). They both seem to be philosophical guys in charged of special forces within their respective organizations. And they both have forked eyebrows. That's all.
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Old 2004-12-22, 00:09   Link #251
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Speaking of similar characters, I thought Dullindal's personality was quite similar to that of Scirocco in Zeta.

If that means Dullindal will become a bad guy and goes gonzo by the end of the series, I can only guess.
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Old 2004-12-22, 01:08   Link #252
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I dont think their personality is similar at all...but I wont doubt the possibility of Dullindal going berserk in the end and Shinn using Core Splendor to crash into what-ever MS/MA Dullindal is using .
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Old 2004-12-22, 01:43   Link #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonli
I dont think their personality is similar at all...but I wont doubt the possibility of Dullindal going berserk in the end and Shinn using Core Splendor to crash into what-ever MS/MA Dullindal is using .
That wouldn't be bad, although if there's only one tiny bit of Zeta that they copy I hope it has Shinn wind up a mental cucumber...
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Old 2004-12-22, 04:00   Link #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightman
The Logos are the TRUE organization that Azrael and Jibril work for... They are this shadowy organization who control the Earth military and how things on Earth are ran... Kind of like the Romefeller Foundation from Gundam Wing.

And likewise those old guys that Jibril was talking to were also members of Logos.
well, I think it's implied in the newtype info that Logos controls the entire world from the shadows ala Illuminati, so it's possible that Logos also controls PLANT (and yup I still believe Reverend Malchio must be a high-up in Logos )

BTW, Gilbert reminds me nothing of Scirocco, at least not yet.
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Old 2004-12-22, 04:05   Link #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMirage
Her father was killed because he was the biggest potential political rival and had enough support to start a coup d'etat.

On the other hand, you bring up a valid point. Whether the government has done something terrible enough to justify violent civil disobedience is arguable. But genocide is usually a good enough reason. In the case of ZAFT at the end of GSEED, the Supreme Council has become effectively useless and all power has fallen into the hands of Patrick Zala, who now controls the military. Controlling the military to nullify civilian administration is the basic procedure in setting up a dictatorship. The people of PLANT were left with no say in anything anymore, as their lawfully elected Supreme Council has been rendered useless. Patrick Zala was preparing to commit genocide against Naturals using the name of his people but without their consent. (well, even with consent genocide is not the way to go)

As for Lacus betraying her side by giving away military secrets... sometimes you have to betray your country to do the right thing, because your leaders are not always right. In the end, you have to look at whether a person betrayed his/her duty as a moral human being instead of his/her duty as a obedient citizen. In a "good" society, this two things are the same. But if the entire system has been corrupted, you have to go against the system in order stay faithful to the first.

Lacus appears to be carefree and naive, but she has a deeper comprehension of the situation then most of the other main characters in the first series. (I guess Kira matured somewhat in the second...) Her decesiveness in times of crisis prevented the war from going any further.

Why doesnt anyone understand? Zala wasnt Genocidal at that time. This was happening around episode 35, Operation spit break not Operation kill all the naturals. In some cases i understand actions against the government, like when the soldier shot Zala. That was the right thing to do. And when Lacus handed over Freedom to kira Zala was definetly not Genocidal but acting a military commander fashion.

Zala actually became Genocidal after the EA took out BOAZ and were left with only Jachin Due to defend themselevs. Until the Use of nukes by the EA there wasnt even a mention of Genesis beyond the Supreme Council. So how did Lacus know about it? Citizens do have the right to rebel against a corrupt system but Zala wasnt corrupt, he was only doing things that he thought were in the best intrests of the people. I do admitt however at the end he became more of a dictator than a democratic leader but during times of war the leader usually takes the reigns of power anyway.

US president can launch nukes during times of war? why? because it would be totally inefficent to vote on a something when you have no time. You cant always Vote on things, thats why Emergency powers were given to Zala. Not to mention the first 2 shots he fired were at the moon base and oncomming Nuke Mobile armors and yet the EA presisted to attack so Zala being fed up said the only way to get rid of these bastards is to kill them all.

If earth had been destroyed and everyone killed non of destiny would have happened. Its usually the naturals that pick a fight. This time it was Coordinators but this is one of the few times where the Coordinators provoked Naturals usually its the other way around.
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Old 2004-12-22, 04:16   Link #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamless
well, I think it's implied in the newtype info that Logos controls the entire world from the shadows ala Illuminati, so it's possible that Logos also controls PLANT (and yup I still believe Reverend Malchio must be a high-up in Logos
Yeah, that's a possible theory. Especially since Logos literally means "The Word (of God)" and "Jibreel(Gabriel)" and "Azrael" are both angel names, and "Melchior" is one of the three Magi of tradition.
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Old 2004-12-22, 05:35   Link #257
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The original war plans when ZAFT went into the war called for the occupation and control of all spaceports (i.e. mass drivers, launch platforms, etc) held by the Earth Alliance. After this phase, ZAFT would turn its space forces loose and take all Earth Alliance held space assets. It was hoped that by denying the Earth Alliance access to space, they would be forced to the negotiating table and to acknowledge the independence of the PLANTs.

Patrick Zala's ultimate strategy would not only have that, it would also have the Earth Alliance crippled and a total victory for ZAFT. He decieved the PLANT Supreme Council that Operation Spitbreak targeted Panama (the last mass driver that the EA held) while it actually targetted JOSH-A. If you go back and watch the episodes, you would be able to see Clyne's (Siegel) and Kanaba's reaction to being decieved. Of course, Le Creuset betrayed Patrick Zala.

I also highly doubt Lacus was the type of person who went ahead and handed Freedom to Kira without discussing it with her father.

Look back to Patrick Zala's conversation with Athrun. Athrun asked him did he think that by pitting force against force could the war end. Zala reacted angrily and in the struggle afterwards said that ZAFT started the war to destroy the Naturals, not to force them to make peace with them. Zala's form of peace - like Azrael's - was to have his enemies grovel before him, and failing that, to kill all his enemies.

Patrick Zala, (we can sympathize why he became like that, but it doesn't exonerate him for being rather extreme in his dislike for Naturals), though not flat out nuts like Azrael, wanted complete victory, at all costs. When you have both sides being hardliners; both who would show no quarter to each side and posessing such destructive weapons to unleash upon each other, you are probably going to have everyone dead at the end of the whole war.

Now, I might sound like some peace-loving hippie liberal (a taboo word to right-wing conservatives nowadays) but consider this - with the array of weapons and destructive potential of new technologies available to both ZAFT and the PLANTs at that time (hell, even now in SEED Destiny), an all out unrestrained war would ultimately have meant mutual extinction.

For a real life approximation to Patrick Zala, I would imagine the Israeli Prime Minister Sharon would be an excellent real life counterpart.
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Old 2004-12-22, 06:32   Link #258
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i feel the gilbert looks like abad guy to me, its the way he looks and how he is always so calm, that seems pretty bad guy to me( i notice the bad guys in animes always seem to be the most composed and resourceful, at least at first anyway they get dumb later on though)

and i bet the saviour has some remote control explosion device attached so that athrun can be controlled when he decides to do something and that explains the "free lunch"
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Old 2004-12-22, 07:10   Link #259
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wow, so Orb's Murasame can transform into some Z waverider form! And Zamzazar can deflect positron beams!

Oh and heard that from some model magazine that Cagalli may actually fight in Strike Rouge IWSP in Destiny
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Old 2004-12-22, 07:17   Link #260
Rei_Ikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyu
The original war plans when ZAFT went into the war called for the occupation and control of all spaceports (i.e. mass drivers, launch platforms, etc) held by the Earth Alliance. After this phase, ZAFT would turn its space forces loose and take all Earth Alliance held space assets. It was hoped that by denying the Earth Alliance access to space, they would be forced to the negotiating table and to acknowledge the independence of the PLANTs.

Patrick Zala's ultimate strategy would not only have that, it would also have the Earth Alliance crippled and a total victory for ZAFT. He decieved the PLANT Supreme Council that Operation Spitbreak targeted Panama (the last mass driver that the EA held) while it actually targetted JOSH-A. If you go back and watch the episodes, you would be able to see Clyne's (Siegel) and Kanaba's reaction to being decieved. Of course, Le Creuset betrayed Patrick Zala.

I also highly doubt Lacus was the type of person who went ahead and handed Freedom to Kira without discussing it with her father.

Look back to Patrick Zala's conversation with Athrun. Athrun asked him did he think that by pitting force against force could the war end. Zala reacted angrily and in the struggle afterwards said that ZAFT started the war to destroy the Naturals, not to force them to make peace with them. Zala's form of peace - like Azrael's - was to have his enemies grovel before him, and failing that, to kill all his enemies.

Patrick Zala, (we can sympathize why he became like that, but it doesn't exonerate him for being rather extreme in his dislike for Naturals), though not flat out nuts like Azrael, wanted complete victory, at all costs. When you have both sides being hardliners; both who would show no quarter to each side and posessing such destructive weapons to unleash upon each other, you are probably going to have everyone dead at the end of the whole war.

Now, I might sound like some peace-loving hippie liberal (a taboo word to right-wing conservatives nowadays) but consider this - with the array of weapons and destructive potential of new technologies available to both ZAFT and the PLANTs at that time (hell, even now in SEED Destiny), an all out unrestrained war would ultimately have meant mutual extinction.

For a real life approximation to Patrick Zala, I would imagine the Israeli Prime Minister Sharon would be an excellent real life counterpart.

Couldn't have put it better myself........
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Dreaming that Kira flies in on Freedom, Meteorizes Shinn just enought to teach him what it takes to be a protagonist, rams those nukes Jibrill and the EA bastards like so much into their throat. Oh....and seeing that Lacus clone taking a blast of Lacus Haro atack.
*Wakes up* Damn....Why did i wake up
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