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Old 2012-02-03, 13:14   Link #10061
monsta666
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, England
Age: 27
Just to add to this nice guy debate. Being nice does not make it easier to get into a relationship as people often assume. What it does do is it makes it easier to maintain a relationship once it is established. This assumes the women you are going out with is level headed and appreciates nice guys which is not always the case. This is especially true if the girl you are dating happens to be quite young.

To get into a relationship people often need an extra element to just being nice. They also need to be interesting or have some kind of charm or share interests with the women in question. A combination of the above factors is normally required. Once the interest is sparked and she is into you then your nice personality will begin to pay dividends but at the beginning i.e. before a relationship has started being nice will not count for much. People need to remember you need something extra to get them to notice you in the first place and being nice merely allows you to keep the girl once she is there.

However it should be noted that people tend to be flaky at a young age. By young I am talking teens to early 20s. So even with my advice it will be difficult but you just got to hang in there and not turn into an emotional wreck or develop a grudge for the opposite sex. Yes easier said than done but you got to try not to develop those mentalities because ultimately they will become counter-productive if your objective is to form a long standing relationship. From what I hear from friends and family the older you get the easier it becomes because people in your dating pool gradually mature and the women will be more appreciative of nice guys and are not so easily swayed by bad boys since they can tell the difference between confidence and arrogance better.

Last edited by monsta666; 2012-02-03 at 13:52.
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Old 2012-02-03, 13:24   Link #10062
warita
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vienna
This is very true Monsta.

Problem is, that a lot of nice guys think, that if they will be nice to a girl... I mean like really nice..... then the girl must appreciate it and fall in love. Sadly, it doesnt work that way, the girl must have some interest in the guy prior to him being nice....

So basically, being nice is good, BUT one must chose wisely what girl is worth it and get also the timing and the dosage right. There is no universal formula how to do things. I guess this boils down to experience. You date a few women, you make some mistakes along the way, you learn from it and then you learn how to read the signs I suppose.
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Old 2012-02-03, 14:16   Link #10063
Ledgem
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBladewing View Post
Everyone with relationship issues can at least take solace in the fact that they aren't me - 2 months away from 28 and have never had a single person express even the tiniest hint of romantic interest. You know that one anime character archetype, the main character's comedy relief best friend who never gets any of the girls? That guy is me irl.
Drop that attitude, because it's going to hold you back. As warita and others have mentioned, it's all about being confident. Everyone is attracted to confidence. It's not about believing that you're better than everyone else, but believing that you're worthwhile and no less than anyone else.

I'm not going to say that you're perfect as you are. Nobody is. You may have some personal work to do in order to make yourself more attractive or more fit for a relationship. All the same, as you are right now, you are someone valuable, you have something to contribute, and many girls would be lucky to occupy that intimate part of your life. If you need help with the personal work, feel free to reply back and we can all give you some tips and analysis. Ultimately it's up to you to do the work and make the changes that need to be made, but we're all rooting for you.

With that said, there are some practical things to consider. No matter how attractive you are, if you're holing yourself up in your room all day and night, you're not being seen. You don't need to go to bars or parties, but get yourself out there and attend social events where you can. (I generally hate social events, so if you're like me, you'll find this to be a bit of a challenge - but you're up to it.) A "cheat" to get around this aspect is to join a social dating site. Nobody will look down on you for choosing that avenue - one might even argue that it's the smarter way to go, these days.

Outward appearance is another consideration, not necessarily because it relates to attractiveness but because it relates to confidence. Is your hair messy? Fix it. Do you usually comb it down? Try combing it up for a more energetic look. Are you wearing worn out clothes that look tattered? Get something - anything - that looks better maintained. Do you have any skin conditions that are outwardly obvious? Go see a dermatologist and get it treated. This isn't about being superficial, it's about advertising. To put it into more standard guy terms, even the hottest car will look unappealing with signs of rust and chipped paint, right?

Another major consideration is how approachable you make yourself. Don't shy away from making eye contact with people, even if they're random strangers. Don't be afraid to smile at them, either (don't smile in a creepy manner or at inappropriate times/scenarios, of course, and recognize that even if you're good about it, some people will think it's creepy regardless). Making eye contact and smiling are generally inviting, and can result in an encounter occurring. Lastly, make sure that you're not walking around looking angry or depressed all the time; make sure that your neutral expression is really neutral, or even happy. Again, people will be drawn to that. Even if you don't get people randomly initiating conversations with you, they'll be more receptive to you if you try to initiate one with them. A lot of this advice applies to approaching both men and women, even for non-romantic interests, and a lot of it will occur naturally if you have high self-confidence and a good outlook on your life.

Lastly, don't be afraid of rejection! This applies to initiating random conversations, too. Not everyone is going to be receptive to you. That's just personal chemistry, and you shouldn't take it personally.
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Old 2012-02-03, 14:23   Link #10064
Paranoid Android
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Lastly, don't be afraid of rejection! This applies to initiating random conversations, too. Not everyone is going to be receptive to you. That's just personal chemistry, and you shouldn't take it personally.
I don't know about the environment for you guys here but the girls in my area are fairly open to first-dates. I don't think I've ever been rejected a first date when I go up and ask them directly. It's usually a rather passive denial for the second or later dates.

Errr, excluding people that aren't single. I have asked out people that are apparently married.. >__o
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Old 2012-02-03, 14:32   Link #10065
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I don't know about the environment for you guys here but the girls in my area are fairly open to first-dates. I don't think I've ever been rejected a first date when I go up and ask them directly. It's usually a rather passive denial for the second or later dates.

Errr, excluding people that aren't single. I have asked out people that are apparently married.. >__o
Gotta check that left ring finger

First girl I ever asked out rejected me. I was happy to get it out of the way - you discover that being rejected doesn't kill you and that it wasn't as bad as you thought it would be. With that experience behind you, you're suddenly free to ask out anyone you want.
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Old 2012-02-03, 15:08   Link #10066
GDB
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
it's all about being confident.
Not getting into the rest of it, but this line always irks me. Telling someone to be confident is ridiculous. I don't know about others, but I get confidence through experience. I cannot get experience because I do not have the confidence to attract girls. Ergo, I cannot gain confidence. On the other hand, those who start with some level of confidence get experience, which in turns boosts their confidence. See how you get two nice little cycles there? One positive, and one negative? How does one break out of the negative cycle? Faking confidence sure doesn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
First girl I ever asked out rejected me. I was happy to get it out of the way - you discover that being rejected doesn't kill you and that it wasn't as bad as you thought it would be. With that experience behind you, you're suddenly free to ask out anyone you want.
And then if you continuously get rejected, and I don't necessarily mean just for the first date but not being able to get past the first date, you feel worse than ever.
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Old 2012-02-03, 15:10   Link #10067
DonQuigleone
Knight Errant
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Go out and meet people at conventions. Unless you are in-training for a really tough job, there is no reason not to take a day or two off to the bar or mall or library.
Not a big fan of conventions. Don't like the huge crowds of people.

Anyway, I'm actually thinking of trying speed dating once I've got a job and moved out of the house. Online dating seems impersonal, and I'm getting to the age where it's offered.

But as for my own virginal status, I have to say, it's mostly because I haven't met any women who particularly interested to me. Maybe it's because I don't talk to women enough, but for most of women I've talked to for any length I've failed to find any that I at all "clicked" with, and actually wanted to meet up with again.

It doesn't really help that I'm a bit idiosyncratic about what I enjoy talking about. I like to talk about things, or trade jokes. Most of the women I know aren't so big on that.

The whole "soft, nice, non-confrontational" idea doesn't appeal to me at all. Not to say those things aren't important (I like to think of myself as being reasonably nice after all), but I want to go out with a women who will really hold my interest, and I can also engage in humourous conversation. Now maybe I haven't given women enough of a chance, I could very well be a closet misogynist, but only a handful of women have held my interest for more then 10 minutes over the past 6 years.

All the rest were terribly nice but, ultimately, boring. And while being nice is an important thing (no one wants to go out with a self absorbed psychopath!), I have to have a compelling reason to pay this woman any attention. Having a good set of breasts ain't enough, I can stare at those online if I want. I want someone who'll say something, anything, that's interesting to me. But I think part of problem is that Irish people are a bit repressed and avoid confrontation...

I love debate too much, and find small talk unfulfilling, and most of the conversation I've heard between women is distinctly "small talk". That, or about some social occassion.
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Old 2012-02-03, 15:15   Link #10068
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Not getting into the rest of it, but this line always irks me. Telling someone to be confident is ridiculous. I don't know about others, but I get confidence through experience.
Experience is a major source of confidence, but it is not the only one. It's all about how you perceive yourself, and your world view. I'm not going to say that it's easy to change those things, because it isn't. It gets more difficult as you get older and your views solidify. If it weren't possible to do it, I wouldn't be saying it. I'm not just typing up things that sound nice.

By the same token, if your self-perception and views are negative, it doesn't matter what experience you have: you'll find a way to tear yourself down anyway, and mitigate the experiences that you had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
And then if you continuously get rejected, and I don't necessarily mean just for the first date but not being able to get past the first date, you feel worse than ever.
You can sulk about it and berate yourself over it, sure. Or you can take the positive attitude and figure that you're doing something wrong. Maybe you're moving too quickly by most people's standards; maybe you're bringing up discussion topics that turn people off. There's always a chance that you have certain mannerisms that people find off-putting. None of this means that you are a failure as a person, or that nobody will ever love you; it just means that you have to work on your presentation.
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Old 2012-02-03, 15:27   Link #10069
Gamer_2k4
Anime Cynic
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Age: 26
I've never asked a girl out in my life, yet I have a girlfriend who's on the fast track to being my wife someday. We started out as single friends who ultimately realized we spent a lot of time with just each other and really liked each other, and we finally decided to just give ourselves the titles to match how we acted. Now we're boyfriend and girlfriend, and I never once asked her out.

If you're looking for a girlfriend, the best advice is to just be yourself. Girls date jerks because the so-called "nice guys" are complete tools. They're so obsessed with being "nice" to a girl that they forget about a little thing called equality. Why do those guys get friend zoned? It's because they're there to help the girl (like a friend would be), but it comes at the cost of their own feelings. They don't have the confidence or self-worth to be seen as an attractive mate, so the girl never considers them.

Oh, and I can't say enough for online dating. You know that the other person is interested in dating, and you know a ton about them up front. You can get a good idea of how compatible the two of you are even before ever meeting them. And hey, if you've exhausted the real-life field, why not try online? You'll find people you wouldn't otherwise. At the very least, you won't lose anything by trying. No risk, all reward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
So who's got a date for valentines and what da'ya have planned? It's always fun to share ideas.
Because my girlfriend and I live about 45 minutes away from each other, we really only see each other one weekends. We're getting each other gifts, but really just being together is enough of a "date" for Valentine's Day. Spending the day with someone you really care about, even (especially?) if it's just cuddling on the couch, is probably one of the most enjoyable things you can do.
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Old 2012-02-03, 15:29   Link #10070
Samari
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Francisco
Age: 27
I'm thinking of asking my girlfriend to marry me.
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永遠不要失去信心,你的命運。
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Old 2012-02-03, 15:34   Link #10071
Who
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Originally Posted by Samari View Post
I'm thinking of asking my girlfriend to marry me.
Doitdoitdoitdoit. How are you going about it though?
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Old 2012-02-03, 15:41   Link #10072
Samari
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Originally Posted by Who View Post
Doitdoitdoitdoit. How are you going about it though?
I'm very uneasy about it. But it's my belief that the part of me that is making myself feel uneasy about it is the part of me I shouldn't listen to in the first place. The "party animal" side of me that worries more about never feeling up on another girl's booty again instead of the more important matters in life.

I've done some dumb things in the past in my relationship (as those who know me here will testify), but I think I've finally learned the value of someone that loves and cares about you a lot. And she certainly does. She's given me hints that she wants to get married and wants to be with me forever. I think she is a little worried because she wants to be with me, but she is graduating from school soon and she might not be able to stay here in the United States.

And for those who just read that and think she's playing me, it's definitely not the case. She is as pure as a short, cute and caring Asian girl could ever be.
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Old 2012-02-03, 15:54   Link #10073
GDB
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
maybe you're bringing up discussion topics that turn people off.
For me, personally, it's the opposite. I don't know what to discuss period, so I likely appear overtly reserved.
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Old 2012-02-03, 15:55   Link #10074
monsta666
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: London, England
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
Not getting into the rest of it, but this line always irks me. Telling someone to be confident is ridiculous. I don't know about others, but I get confidence through experience. I cannot get experience because I do not have the confidence to attract girls. Ergo, I cannot gain confidence. On the other hand, those who start with some level of confidence get experience, which in turns boosts their confidence. See how you get two nice little cycles there? One positive, and one negative? How does one break out of the negative cycle? Faking confidence sure doesn't work.
It certainly is a tricky area and can seem like a catch 22 situation. To gain confidence you need experience but you can't gain confidence because you can't get experience... However there are ways of building confidence even without gaining relationship experience. What you really need to do is put yourself in a situation that is not your comfort zone and most important of all, try interacting with people you do not know. It doesn't have to be the opposite sex but just a setting where you are talking to strangers. I know what helped me become more open is I would sometimes go to the pub to watch a football match (soccer for Americans) and would talk and interact with total strangers and have a good time.

Now once you can do that easily with guys you try and talk to women in the same way. But don't feel you need to hit on them just talk to them in a normal friendly way and that should build up confidence in interacting with the opposite sex. What's more once you start doing this on a regular basis that mysterious aura that women have will diminish because you know what to expect so when the time comes to pop the big question you are less likely to stumble on your words. Oh and on that note of stumbling do not worry about little mistakes here and there. That is all part of the learning process, as you develop you should make less mistakes and that should help build confidence as you see your social skills are improving.
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Old 2012-02-03, 16:14   Link #10075
Ledgem
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Age: 28
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
For me, personally, it's the opposite. I don't know what to discuss period, so I likely appear overtly reserved.
There you go - you've identified a problem and have something to work toward.

The best approach to this problem will vary between people, but I'll give some pointers to think about and consider. The big one is don't over-think things. I think most of us on here are the "cerebral type" who like to plan out scenarios, simulate them in our mind, and we're constantly second-guessing what the other person is thinking and interpreting. If that describes you, shut that kind of thinking off in dating situations.

The general goal is to find common ground to talk about. If you've connected through an online dating site, you'll already know a bit about each other. If you're relatively new to each other, then probe to find out more! People love to talk about themselves. Their interests, hobbies, family, career or studies (current and aspirations)... politics and world events are a possibility, but since people tend to get fired up about them, they represent a risky topic. Unless your conversation partner is also clamming up and doesn't want to share information, you're bound to hit on a few topics that lead into conversations of their own. All the way through, you're learning more about each other and gauging compatibility.

Pop culture talk is another possibility, but if you're like me, you have about zero pop culture knowledge (and an embarrassing about of internet culture knowledge). In my mind, that also represents a shallow conversation topic - a nice way to pass the time among friends, but you're not really learning about the person. Nor are you providing a chance to share anything about yourself, other than what you're into for music and entertainment.
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Old 2012-02-03, 17:19   Link #10076
DonQuigleone
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Age: 26
To my view, pop culture is a fairly dull discussion topic. It basically devolves down to "I liked this, do you like this" "yes I like that too!" "Wow!" "Wow!" "What should we talk about now?"

Pop culture discussions only get interesting when you get into specifics, but a lot of people dislike that, as it's no longer a "light" conversation. In addition, both parties need to have a fairly in depth knowledge before such a conversation is even possible.

This is why I don't frequent Anime clubs and conventions. While I enjoy watching it, and talking around it, talking about the actual thing itself is fairly dull, because it's very rare that you get an anime discussion that goes further then the typical "I like you like" subject.

On a forum here at least it's possible to go indepth into stuff like Mo. IRL most people who've even heard of the term won't fully understand it, and they won't have the required knowledge to say much of any significance.

These days I generally avoid most pop culture conversations.
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Old 2012-02-03, 17:53   Link #10077
solomon
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
Ledgem got it good. You can sulk and be alone or you can be analytical and identify points for improvement and as long as their are avenues for meeting people wiether in RL or online there is always hope, it's up to you take it, no matter how hard it is.

The Don makes an interesting point about Pop culture. I'd probably branch it over to politics as well. Unless you find someone you can get REAAALLLLYY nitty gritty with, I guess you can't rely too much on that.

Then again, it always is a good ice breaker and can help you move on to other topics.
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Old 2012-02-03, 18:05   Link #10078
Tenken's Smile
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Above the Sky
Can we start coming up with the best Valentine greetings now?
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Old 2012-02-03, 18:07   Link #10079
solomon
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Suburban DC
Dear lord that monstrosity is coming up.......KILL!!!
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Old 2012-02-03, 18:20   Link #10080
warita
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vienna
This is my first month on the forum. What is Tenken talking about?

Also.... why change the subject forcefully?

EDIT: ups, looks like i killed the conversation.....

Last edited by warita; 2012-02-03 at 18:35.
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