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Old 2012-02-04, 21:54   Link #27681
AuraTwilight
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It's possible that they decided to have Battler's seiyuu voice TMF19YA because of his theory at the end that he actually is that person, and because having Beato's seiyuu try to make a manly voice might ruin the seriousness of the moment.
Yea well Yasu, Lion, and TMF19YA were all supposed to be gender ambiguous but they fucked that up, so lol whatever.

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If they didn't activate the mechanism, then the direction of the statues would not have changed, and the secret pathway that they were supposed to be pointing to would not have opened. Because they did reach the room of the gold after this scene, it should be enough to prove that they did activate it.
What I'm saying is that Battler didn't use the damn mechanism OR the statues. Dude just walked.
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Old 2012-02-04, 22:09   Link #27682
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Yea well Yasu, Lion, and TMF19YA were all supposed to be gender ambiguous but they fucked that up, so lol whatever.
TMF19YA isn't supposed to be gender ambiguous. He's definitely supposed to be a guy. So, your Red is kind of invalid, but oh well. And, it always seemed clear to me that Yasuda is a girl, but that's beside the point. Did they really fuck up Lion's gender ambiguity?

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What I'm saying is that Battler didn't use the damn mechanism OR the statues. Dude just walked.
Hm. I seem to remember that, when he pointed whatever it was out to Erika, he said it was the guidepost to the Golden Land, or something. That seems to imply that it was the statue. Though, as far as ctrl+F in result.txt is concerned, it seems that guidepost wasn't actually the word being used... And now I can't seem to find the scene, so.
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Old 2012-02-04, 23:14   Link #27683
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Though the scene is very vague because it's only dialogue is implied that Erika and Battler went to the church and moved the letters that actived the mechanism as they comment something along the line of 'that's what gouging meant' and they say they heard a click that should have activated a mechanism.

Afterward Battler 'see Kinzo' and then said something along the line of having found the guidepost to the golden land. After this Erika noticed the lion was facing in a different direction and praised him for his observation spirit.
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Old 2012-02-04, 23:23   Link #27684
AuraTwilight
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TMF19YA isn't supposed to be gender ambiguous. He's definitely supposed to be a guy. So, your Red is kind of invalid, but oh well. And, it always seemed clear to me that Yasuda is a girl, but that's beside the point. Did they really fuck up Lion's gender ambiguity?
Not true. Natsuhi specifically says that his voice is hard to distinguish as feminine or masculine. Japanese doesn't have gender-neutral pronouns, so 'man' was used for convenience sake.

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Though the scene is very vague because it's only dialogue is implied that Erika and Battler went to the church and moved the letters that actived the mechanism as they comment something along the line of 'that's what gouging meant' and they say they heard a click that should have activated a mechanism.

Afterward Battler 'see Kinzo' and then said something along the line of having found the guidepost to the golden land. After this Erika noticed the lion was facing in a different direction and praised him for his observation spirit.
It's still possible that Battler is fudging information, however. He certainly seems to be using some sort of unusual information or intuition.
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Old 2012-02-04, 23:47   Link #27685
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Not true. Natsuhi specifically says that his voice is hard to distinguish as feminine or masculine. Japanese doesn't have gender-neutral pronouns, so 'man' was used for convenience sake.
I can honestly say that I had no idea. That's interesting, and IMO makes it much more likely for TMF19YA to be Yasuda.
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Old 2012-02-05, 00:15   Link #27686
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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
Not true. Natsuhi specifically says that his voice is hard to distinguish as feminine or masculine. Japanese doesn't have gender-neutral pronouns, so 'man' was used for convenience sake.
Uhhh... Actually, had the sex been ambiguous, Natushi could have referred to him as "The Person from 19 Years Ago" instead of referring to that person as a man.

The reason why she called him a man was because that person was using Ore and eventually Boku as personal pronouns - which, as you probably already know, are first person pronouns used only by males.

In addition, why would you use Daisuke Ono's voice for someone who is supposed to sound gender neutral? That's a terrible idea.
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Old 2012-02-05, 01:20   Link #27687
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Uhhh... Actually, had the sex been ambiguous, Natushi could have referred to him as "The Person from 19 Years Ago" instead of referring to that person as a man.
Yea, and?

The person called her Mother, and is 19 years old. Yasuda was born a male, and was given a surgery after she nearly died as an infant.

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The reason why she called him a man was because that person was using Ore and eventually Boku as personal pronouns - which, as you probably already know, are first person pronouns used only by males.
Yea, except girls also use them when they feel like it.

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In addition, why would you use Daisuke Ono's voice for someone who is supposed to sound gender neutral? That's a terrible idea.
I already said they fucked up. Have you HEARD Lion?
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Old 2012-02-05, 01:33   Link #27688
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Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
The storm was there for the siblings in the EP 7 Teaparty also. Plus apparently someone in Rokkenjima Prime solved the epitaph and there was a storm on Prime too. And all Battler had to notice was that the lion was turned into a different direction. Erika noticed it as soon as he pointed it/looked where he was looking so I guess it could be seen easily enough.
Do we actually have evidence the epitaph was ever solved? We have some notion that external individuals have seen the epitaph and that it existed. We also have a nebulous, unsourced, unexplained narration by Yasu detailing her own solving of it, but we can't demonstrate that ever actually happened.

And we certainly don't know that anyone solved it on Oct. 4/5-Prime.

I don't doubt the solution to the epitaph is correct, but that doesn't mean anyone ever actually did solve it. Indeed, if we take only what was written by the original message bottle author, nothing actually specifically posits that the author even knew the epitaph solution.
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Old 2012-02-05, 02:11   Link #27689
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Mmm, irrefutable textual evidence that simply cannot be denied? No. The closest thing is Eva surviving in the Kuwadorian in Prime, but even that can be explained with It's possible to walk to the Kuwadorian through the forest, and some Hilarious Explosive Accident™ happened while Eva was out exploring.

Also, because I just have to say it - noone's done a full translation of Our Confessions, right? So I'm just going off the summaries that were provided, wherein the only thing they seemed to CONFIRM were:
1.) Shkanon
2.) Beato's fetish for scantily clad female minions
3.) That Yasu used a LIE about some fake murder game to trick people into positions that let her shoot them in the face
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Old 2012-02-05, 02:14   Link #27690
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I can basically think of one thing in the text: Beatrice produces extra gold bars in Turn. However, this by itself doesn't actually prove the author knows the solution to the epitaph, and nobody actually starts breaking it down with any degree of reasoning until Banquet. In both Legend and Turn Beatrice's letter exhorts everyone to solve the epitaph, but there is no evidence that Beatrice herself - or the writer of the tale - actually knows what the solution is.
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Old 2012-02-05, 02:30   Link #27691
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Furthermore, even if Beatrice knew the answer to the Epitaph, it doesn't mean the writer does.
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Old 2012-02-05, 02:40   Link #27692
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Originally Posted by Renall View Post
In both Legend and Turn Beatrice's letter exhorts everyone to solve the epitaph, but there is no evidence that Beatrice herself - or the writer of the tale - actually knows what the solution is.
BUT DID YOU FLIP THE CHESSBOARD?!
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Old 2012-02-05, 02:50   Link #27693
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BUT DID YOU FLIP THE CHESSBOARD?!
Well if I didn't know the answer, I'd certainly be interested in getting somebody else to solve it for me. But there's no evidence of that as a motive either.
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Old 2012-02-05, 03:28   Link #27694
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Correct me if I'm wrong, and I've probably forgotten about it due to lack of attention and interest, but wasn't the Epitaph actually fairly easy after you get to know what Kinzo's hometown was - along with noticing the quadrillion thing in the chapel? I know figuring out what his hometown is was hard, but his children already knew it, and Yasu got told what it was by Genji.

Anyhow, I was just thinking if Lion's name was a reference to the lion statues at the chapel? Not to mention there's Lion in quadrillion, but I think I'm looking too much into this. It's still a funny coincidence.

lol Yasu quad core, with many threads, each for every imaginary friend/role of hers.

Okay, I'll stop there.

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Originally Posted by AuraTwilight View Post
The person called her Mother, and is 19 years old. Yasuda was born a male, and was given a surgery after she nearly died as an infant.
If Yasuda was born a male and Natsuhi knew it... wouldn't then she be calling him the man from 19 years ago, because she knew that person is indeed a man?

Though, I get the impression that's not your point. But do spare me, It's almost 3:30AM and I haven't slept for 2 days.

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Yea, except girls also use them when they feel like it.
It is not a common thing. They may do it for shits and giggles, but it's very uncommon for a Japanese girl to use Ore or Boku. Those are men's pronouns.

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I already said they fucked up. Have you HEARD Lion?
Hey. there are a fair bunch of traps out there who look, act and sound like women.
I'm yet to see a woman sound like a man - I'm sure there must be, just that I haven't had the pleasure of seeing one.

In addition, in anime, it is not particularly uncommon to have women voice males, the opposite, sadly, doesn't happen.
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Old 2012-02-05, 03:32   Link #27695
Renall
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Correct me if I'm wrong, and I've probably forgotten about it due to lack of attention and interest, but wasn't the Epitaph actually fairly easy after you get to know what Kinzo's hometown was - along with noticing the quadrillion thing in the chapel? I know figuring out what his hometown is was hard, but his children already knew it, and Yasu got told what it was by Genji.
There's no meditation on the importance of Kinzo's hometown in Legend and Turn. Speculation about it only really starts in earnest in Banquet. I believe the QUADRILLION thing appears in Turn however.
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Old 2012-02-05, 03:41   Link #27696
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Hey. there are a fair bunch of traps out there who look, act and sound like women.
Yea, but Lion was supposed to be AMBIGUOUS, to the point that Will actually asked. PS3 Lion is not even vaguely masculine.

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I'm yet to see a woman sound like a man - I'm sure there must be, just that I haven't had the pleasure of seeing one.
Ohai Zepar's voice actress.

Also, the protagonist of the anime Pandora Hearts is voiced by a female, which is readily apparent, but um...when she sings his character song, she sounds ridiculously male-seeming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcGaVxl_vkI
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Old 2012-02-05, 03:43   Link #27697
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they talk about Kinzo's hoemtown in Turn, when they were walking by the beach and trying to tackle the Epitaph?
I remember Shannon telling them she went to Odawara, about nothing being there and that that place wasn't actually Kinzo's hometown. Then pretty much they gave up on it.

I still don't know why the cousins never asked their parents what Kinzo's birthplace was. But, all the same, they'd still have missed the quadrillion thing, since they only get to notice it when Beatrice leads them to the chapel.

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Yea, but Lion was supposed to be AMBIGUOUS, to the point that Will actually asked. PS3 Lion is not even vaguely masculine.
Well, to be fair, Lion's looks doesn't help her the least.
Had Will not asked that question, I'd never have figured out Lion was supposed to be ambiguous in terms of sex.

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Ohai Zepar's voice actress.

Also, the protagonist of the anime Pandora Hearts is voiced by a female, which is readily apparent, but um...when she sings his character song, she sounds ridiculously male-seeming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcGaVxl_vkI
You can still tell those are women's voices though.
I'm still waiting for a girl voiced by Ono, Sugita, or even better, Wakamoto.
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Old 2012-02-05, 03:49   Link #27698
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Well, to be fair, Lion's looks doesn't help her the least.
Had Will not asked that question, I'd never have figured out Lion was supposed to be ambiguous in terms of sex.
Maybe not by appearance, but what about voice? What about how everyone avoids referring to Lion by any gender? Honestly, Lion's voice should have reflected gender ambiguity, atleast minimally.

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I'm still waiting for a girl voiced by Ono, Sugita, or even better, Wakamoto.
It was never stated in red Battler was a boy. DUN DUN DUN.
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Old 2012-02-05, 04:16   Link #27699
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Even the voice files for MAN OF THE 19 YEARS AGO are in Battler's folder. Ahaha.wav
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Old 2012-02-05, 04:56   Link #27700
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Oh shit, really?

Welp, I win.
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