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Old 2012-02-04, 07:05   Link #41
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
It seems you can have a lot of soldiers, but you can only deploy 4~6 per mission

and just like the original game, if they get injured they are sent for recovery

you will have to substitute that member from someone on your B list

but as the interview tells you, more often then not you will be shot dead rather than injured

IIRC, even a flying armor can't protect you from a plasma riffle one hit kill
The problem is the lack of cannon fodder. I guess it is a strategic decision, but I will miss the ability to send disposable rookies as meat shields in front of my veterans. I understand why they did it, but it does mean a change of tactics.
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Old 2012-02-04, 08:18   Link #42
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
It seems you can have a lot of soldiers, but you can only deploy 4~6 per mission

and just like the original game, if they get injured they are sent for recovery

you will have to substitute that member from someone on your B list

but as the interview tells you, more often then not you will be shot dead rather than injured

IIRC, even a flying armor can't protect you from a plasma riffle one hit kill
Another thing to consider. Critical injuries will affect the soldiers *will*. So depending on how high the soldiers will was to begin with, and how many critical injuries they take, a perfectly normal soldier can bassically be turned into a psycho wreck through repeated injuries.

That probably will add to long term turnover rate of soldiers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
The problem is the lack of cannon fodder. I guess it is a strategic decision, but I will miss the ability to send disposable rookies as meat shields in front of my veterans. I understand why they did it, but it does mean a change of tactics.
Unfortunately yes. Though the fact that critical injuries have long term negative effects on soldiers suggests that vets won't be entirely invincible, even if they might not be quite as prone to instant death.
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Old 2012-02-04, 09:34   Link #43
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Another thing to consider. Critical injuries will affect the soldiers *will*. So depending on how high the soldiers will was to begin with, and how many critical injuries they take, a perfectly normal soldier can bassically be turned into a psycho wreck through repeated injuries.

That probably will add to long term turnover rate of soldiers.
Meaning which we have to keep swapping them out to prevent them from getting PTSD?
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Old 2012-02-04, 09:36   Link #44
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Another thing to consider. Critical injuries will affect the soldiers *will*. So depending on how high the soldiers will was to begin with, and how many critical injuries they take, a perfectly normal soldier can bassically be turned into a psycho wreck through repeated injuries.

That probably will add to long term turnover rate of soldiers.

Unfortunately yes. Though the fact that critical injuries have long term negative effects on soldiers suggests that vets won't be entirely invincible, even if they might not be quite as prone to instant death.
These two points are probably related.

Because troops are not going to drop like flies like in the Original, Fraxis probably decided that they instead make soldiers retire after suffering too much PTSD.

As McArthur said, soldiers don't die; they just fade away. So instead of soldiers dying, you give them an honourable discharge.

Though really, it isn't going to affect the game much over all, as that only applies if for some miracle, the soldier got hit by plasma and lived. But still, I question the need to have this change when it isn't going to happen often.
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Old 2012-02-04, 11:08   Link #45
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
These two points are probably related.

Because troops are not going to drop like flies like in the Original, Fraxis probably decided that they instead make soldiers retire after suffering too much PTSD.

As McArthur said, soldiers don't die; they just fade away. So instead of soldiers dying, you give them an honourable discharge.
That analogy is surprisingly appropriate, considering that MacArthur was *retired* because he wanted to start a nuclear war with China

Rockpaper shotguns interview part 3
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...n-xcom-part-3/

Topic: mod support
Quote:
RPS: Bah! Are you considering any form of mod support, even just indirect stuff like not locking away the textures? I don’t know if you guys have much choice in that.

Jake Solomon: Yeah, and I can’t commit to anything specific obviously because my lead engineer would tear my head off, but that’s something that we benefit from. I mean there’s two sides to that. We’re Firaxis obviously, so we obviously believe in that, we’ve done that for our Civ games extensively, and the benefit of using the Unreal engine is that’s a pretty well-defined modding system. So we’re not committing to exactly what it is we’re doing, but I’m very interested in making sure that’s something that we’re definitely looking very closely at, it’s something that we’d want to do for players.

RPS: You just know the second that’s announced the first thing that will happen is someone will declare they’re making a Terror From the Deep total conversion.


Jake Solomon: Right with time units and ammunition management, I understand, I know (laughs) and I’m ok with that. And I think in some ways that’s good too, I can say like ‘well y’know, I’m perfectly happy to let people see all the code I’ve written and do what they want to do with it, so…’

RPS: There needs to be a site somewhere just documenting time from start of game announcement x to announcement of mod y that will be the ‘complete’ mod, the ‘true’ mod with all these things fixed, all these very specific little features.


Jake Solomon: And you know what, I’ll probably play it. (laughs)
Not as much detail as I would have liked honestly...but I suppose it's something.


Also, the Xcom HQ interactive thingy


It seems there are five seperate research/construction related buildings.

Science labs/engineering:The basic manufacturing facilities. Though there is mention that the Xcom tech tree branches enough that in most playthroughs you won't be able to construct everything.

Workshop/laboratory: These buildings increase the efficiency of construction projects at engineering/science labs. The workshop will also give a random rebate on things constructed.

The Foundry: A seperate construction facility that seems dedicated to large construction projects. They mention the HWP, but it also seems likely that this is where you construct aircraft as well.


Another thing I've noticed. It seems that Firaxis is trying to streamline menu options into base facilities. The geoscape seems to be accessed through the control room, the situation room gets you into contact with the funding nations, the armory allows you to custom your troopers kit/experiance.

It looks like they're trying to up the immersion factor of you being the commander of Xcom, with the player character being sequestered inside the base and his interactions with the outside world being handled through specific command buildings.

Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2012-02-04 at 12:06.
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Old 2012-02-04, 12:36   Link #46
Bonta Kun
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Sorry but I can't really accept 6 troops per mission, thats too small.
I think 8 would have been a better number.
Putting meat shields aside I prefered having option on how to deal with certain sits and having a bigger number of troops with different equipment was one of my favorite things about the old games.

I enjoyed games like Commandos for what they were which was much more specific in how you played where as X-Com was more how you wanted to played, while yes it will probably still be that way but not as much as I would like.
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Old 2012-02-04, 13:10   Link #47
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonta Kun View Post
Sorry but I can't really accept 6 troops per mission, thats too small.
I think 8 would have been a better number.
Putting meat shields aside I prefered having option on how to deal with certain sits and having a bigger number of troops with different equipment was one of my favorite things about the old games.

I enjoyed games like Commandos for what they were which was much more specific in how you played where as X-Com was more how you wanted to played, while yes it will probably still be that way but not as much as I would like.
Still, the good news is that mini-tanks are confirmed in the game from the antfarm link. If we are lucky they would have a separate unit count... But we will see. It seems the tanks are the main meat shields this time.

The reason why I think tanks will have a separate unit count, is that the Antfarm link claim that the tanks would be expensive. If they are expensive, then they need to compensate by surpassing the unit cap. No point using a tank for a meatshield if it means you lose out on bringing in an extra skilled soldier. And in the new game, having one less soldier would be a big deal.

Fraxis claim they want people to be unable to have jack of all trades armies. As in, they want you to be forced to decide what your individual soldier loadouts would be before sending them out, and that once they are out there they are stuck with what you gave them until they come home.

Actually, it's not so different from old school X-com; remember the 80 item cap per vessel? It is impossible to fully arm everyone if you have a full 26 soldier Avenger. One gun and a spare ammo clip is all you could fit in that situation. As such it is impossible in the old game to play properly with any more than 15 soldiers in any map. Unless you have unarmed rookies running around. In the old game it was more economical to bring a tank or two to use up the spare slots that were unused.
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Last edited by Vallen Chaos Valiant; 2012-02-04 at 13:37.
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Old 2012-02-04, 19:15   Link #48
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
There's also a new type of grenade that acts like a long range camera that stays on the field

though I'm guessing aliens can shoot that camera if they notice it

As for arming everyone. I found that laser riffles do a decent job even towards the end of the game. It's ammo free, and most importantly accurate.

But it's as you said, my core team is really less than 8 people, and two of those people are psychics that stay safe out of sight.

The rest are just optional mini launcher mules
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Old 2012-02-05, 13:36   Link #49
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
There are way too many things I look forward to in this game.

Blaster bombs being one of them.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-02-05, 14:24   Link #50
Ithekro
Space Battlecarrier
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Age: 37
The old missiles around corners or if you did it right, thought windows, was always fun in X-Com 2. Though my fights tended to have a lot of collateral damage. as I would blow up building were I though aliens were, or missed out on a bunch of tech because I would shoot a missile up to the alien command centers because they always had a snipper or missile launcher guy up there. It was that or running out of men and women for when they invaded by bases. Especially the small outposts I tended to put around the planet to increase my radar range.
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Old 2012-02-06, 05:07   Link #51
Key Board
Donut
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
I know that feel

That's why I always bring someone with a rocket launcher.

blow up walls
light up areas
kill aliens in hard to reach spots
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Old 2012-02-06, 10:10   Link #52
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I know that feel

That's why I always bring someone with a rocket launcher.

blow up walls
light up areas
kill aliens in hard to reach spots
It also makes the missions more hilarious.
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Old 2012-02-06, 10:46   Link #53
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I know that feel

That's why I always bring someone with a rocket launcher.

blow up walls
light up areas
kill aliens in hard to reach spots
You can get tons of elerium to even start selling them if you farm those alien supply planes : wait for them to land near an alien base (leave the base alone) then drop a Skyranger on top of them filled with Russians armed with small launchers and laser rifles. Kill everyone, grab the elerium and RTB.

You can harvest the stunned aliens too if you want. And all the elerium and $$ to arm your entire crew with Blaster Bomb launchers and make the next alien incursion look like a real World War 3.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-02-06, 14:22   Link #54
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
You can get tons of elerium to even start selling them if you farm those alien supply planes : wait for them to land near an alien base (leave the base alone) then drop a Skyranger on top of them filled with Russians armed with small launchers and laser rifles. Kill everyone, grab the elerium and RTB.

You can harvest the stunned aliens too if you want. And all the elerium and $$ to arm your entire crew with Blaster Bomb launchers and make the next alien incursion look like a real World War 3.
You know, for some reason I never could do that. I find the idea of leaving the alien base alone so abhorrent, that I can't help but annihilate every base that I find. Guess in some way I still feel the need to roleplay the defender of Earth.

I wonder something similar might be possible in the new Xcom game? The catch is, it might be possible to annihilate the alien base that way. I envision a siege, where the Aliens realised that they couldn't get food nor fuel for months. And they slowly cannibalise both electric hardware for power and even literal cannibalism for food. And if you do this long enough, eventually the base dies.
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Old 2012-02-06, 14:42   Link #55
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
You know, for some reason I never could do that. I find the idea of leaving the alien base alone so abhorrent, that I can't help but annihilate every base that I find. Guess in some way I still feel the need to roleplay the defender of Earth.
Thank goodness you are not a real X-Com commander. You'd drop a Skyranger and kidnap the Sectoid cosplayers at Comiket.

Quote:
I wonder something similar might be possible in the new Xcom game? The catch is, it might be possible to annihilate the alien base that way. I envision a siege, where the Aliens realised that they couldn't get food nor fuel for months. And they slowly cannibalise both electric hardware for power and even literal cannibalism for food. And if you do this long enough, eventually the base dies.
Not when you have the Crysallids eating each other, spawning more offspring from their corpses, then eating their offspring, spawning more.......
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-02-06, 16:36   Link #56
Roger Rambo
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Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
You can get tons of elerium to even start selling them if you farm those alien supply planes : wait for them to land near an alien base (leave the base alone) then drop a Skyranger on top of them filled with Russians armed with small launchers and laser rifles. Kill everyone, grab the elerium and RTB.

You can harvest the stunned aliens too if you want. And all the elerium and $$ to arm your entire crew with Blaster Bomb launchers and make the next alien incursion look like a real World War 3.
SELLING Ellerium? What...what a horrifying concept.
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Old 2012-02-06, 17:57   Link #57
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
SELLING Ellerium? What...what a horrifying concept.
Yeah, I can't bring myself to do that either. As soon as I got all the PSI soldiers and all the research I need, I will swap all the Psi labs and laboratories for storage units. Got to hoard the Elerium/Zrbite.
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Old 2012-02-07, 00:40   Link #58
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
SELLING Ellerium? What...what a horrifying concept.
UFOpaedia put it rather aptly :

Quote:
You usually don't want to shoot these down, as most of them actually land for supply missions to alien bases. You can get a nice steady supply of elerium this way.

This ship has 3 power sources and 4 navigations.

The race aboard this ship is the same as the one inside the base under resupply.

Supply Missions are always dispatched by the aliens at 00:30 sharp, any time an alien base is resupplied. This can be helpful in determining the mission type of a Supply Ship if you lack a Hyper-wave Decoder
I used to shoot those ships down once I got Firestorm, but I stopped doing so when I realised waiting for them to land then raiding it much more fun. Then I realised that with so many supply ships I am basically farming their Elerium for sale.

Who cares if the nation doesn't want to fund me? I am still selling Elerium to them.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-02-07, 03:23   Link #59
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
UFOpaedia put it rather aptly :



I used to shoot those ships down once I got Firestorm, but I stopped doing so when I realised waiting for them to land then raiding it much more fun. Then I realised that with so many supply ships I am basically farming their Elerium for sale.

Who cares if the nation doesn't want to fund me? I am still selling Elerium to them.
You are effectively a Privateer; you commit piracy against a foreign invader under the approval of Earth's government.
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Old 2012-02-07, 03:35   Link #60
FlavorOfLife
Uncaring
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Excellent. An X-Com game would be very welcome. I remember X-COM (when it was still called UFO) 1's tension was actually pretty high. The aliens could pop up and kill you with one shot at the beginning of the series when you had nothing and the sounds of doors beyond the cloud of war opening and closing got the blood flowing. The last 2 X-Com style titles (the UFO series) were much less enjoyable.
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