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Old 2012-02-10, 02:19   Link #1201
DragoonKain3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Guys, guys! I have an idea!
Why not wait and see whether Kagura becomes a protagonist or not instead of having a completely pointless argument about it?
To be quite honest, for me it's all about opening one's mind to the possibility that Kagura might become a protagonist. I personally am more or less indifferent whether he actually achieves this status or not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Some shit about my arguement failling apart due to your points... yeah no...., (it really didn't)
Well, if THAT is the extent of your rebuttal...
Quote:
Anyway at least we're on the same here, I'll believe what i want and base the probablilty on my interpretation on shit and you believe whatever you want but lets not go around saying the other persons arguement falls to pieces based on unproven shit. mmkay.
Hey, as long as you don't go around telling other members that...

"I'm simply saying what your hoping for isn't very likely (and if you look at it logically it really isn't)."

...when you're unwilling to defend your own points when viewed under logical scrutiny, then I don't have a problem.
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Old 2012-02-10, 02:25   Link #1202
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
But the rule of mecha anime is that mecha is a man's game, so....
Takaya Noriko, Nono, Izumi Noa, Amami Haruka, Kyouno Madoka, Shishido Akiha, and some others would like to have words with you...
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Old 2012-02-10, 05:05   Link #1203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Takaya Noriko, Nono, Izumi Noa, Amami Haruka, Kyouno Madoka, Shishido Akiha, and some others would like to have words with you...
And as huge a mecha fan as I am, only a handful of those names rings a bell with me: Noriko and Izumi. So, I defer to the point I stated where most mecha animes with female leads are quickly forgotten. Gunbuster 2 is a series I specifically mentioned as clearly not taking itself seriously. And I also specifically mentioned Gunbuster as one of the few universally acknowledged mecha animes with a female lead pilot, though there's a surprisingly large number of people who view Gunbuster as a parody of other mecha titles rather than its own mecha show.

You yourself didn't know, or at least have forgotten, about Sara Werec/Cruz (Soukou no Strain) and Aoba Tsuzaki (Jinki/Jinki: Extend), just to name two off the top of my head, further proving my point that a lot of female mecha leads fall into obscurity.

Upon a quick lookup of those names I didn't recognize, none of them were terribly popular/famous as a mecha show (none on the level of shows like Gundam or Macross, or even Aquarion with their male leads), and Rinne no Lagrange is an undetermined factor. (being a currently airing series) Haruka Amami's Idolmaster:Xenoglossia isn't even really a mecha title; its popularity comes from the video games (which aren't mecha), and it was only turned into a mecha title for the anime.

It's just a sad fact that the general opinion of mecha is that it's a man's game, which is why we'll never see a female lead for a Gundam series and why female pilots almost always take second fiddle to any male pilots in the big mecha titles. On top of that, a good number of Gundam series seem to almost mock females as pilots. (Shrike Team from V Gundam, anybody?) I'd love to see this change, but that won't be anytime soon.

Don't get me wrong, as I said just above I'd love to see females getting spotlight in mecha shows. But if you disagree with the above, then try opening a topic in the Gundam subforum here to talk about how Sunrise should try using a female as a lead character/pilot and/or on females getting bigger roles as pilots (or the forum of any serious mecha anime); I've done that before and pretty much everybody had this opinion.
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Old 2012-02-10, 05:25   Link #1204
bakAnki
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Consider this post a commercial break for the arguments/debate/discussions we're having lately X3



Spoiler for Amata & Zessica:


Spoiler for Hole couple :3:


Break ends. Proceed~ X3
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Old 2012-02-10, 05:27   Link #1205
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by bakAnki View Post
Consider this post a commercial break for the arguments/debate/discussions we're having lately X3



Spoiler for Amata & Zessica:


Spoiler for Hole couple :3:


Break ends. Proceed~ X3
Nice stuff, but I'm still waiting for Megami and Nyantype to give me MY DANG MIKONO AND ZESSICA BIKINI SCANS!!!
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Old 2012-02-10, 05:29   Link #1206
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
You yourself didn't know, or at least have forgotten, about Sara Werec/Cruz (Soukou no Strain) and Aoba Tsuzaki (Jinki/Jinki: Extend), just to name two off the top of my head, further proving my point that a lot of female mecha leads fall into obscurity.
Well, the reason I don't know them is because I haven't even heard of those series until now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakAnki View Post

Spoiler for Hole couple :3:


Break ends. Proceed~ X3
*has boarded this ship long ago. AHEAD ONE QUARTER IMPULSE!*
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Old 2012-02-10, 05:31   Link #1207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
ZESSICA BIKINI SCANS!!!
Wait,isn't zessica always wearing a bikini?
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Old 2012-02-10, 05:34   Link #1208
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Well, the reason I don't know them is because I haven't even heard of those series until now.
Exactly my point, and as I stated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Wait,isn't zessica always wearing a bikini?
You can never have a skimpy-enough bikini. Boy, if you've seen the skimpy bikinis I've seen in anime.....

On a side note, I'm a little surprised Aquarion doesn't have its own subforum.....
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Old 2012-02-10, 05:40   Link #1209
Shikijin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
I don't think there's any thing such as men's way or womens way, their are simply paths each individual human can, it would be harder for a woman to beat a man in an outright fight, much like it would be harder for smaller thin man to beat a large muscular man. It's not impossible simply less likely.
Traditionally women moderated men's excess. Nowadays this is not really true anymore. Kawamori is an old time gentleman.
Quote:
Doesn't mean they shouldn't be potrayed as able to do it rather they are the minority rather than the majority.
And, for no special reason at all, minority gets to be portrayed as ace. The token ace minority. This is irking. Nowadays minority can't be average or minor, just stereotype ace Mary Sue.
Quote:
But really this arguement is silly in the context, your arguing about piloting skill which isn't outright determined by physical capability (though it does play a factor), but even more your talking about piloting skill in a Super Robot of which physical capabilities play no effect what so ever.
That's not true. Men withstand g-forces better, and they have also more spatial awareness. In the Aquarion's case, mind that the pilot may also get hurt by feedback, and the energy of the pilot power-up the attack. All factors in which a male is better. Anyway, the difference is minimal, but it's still there. Though in Aquarion there are still competent female pilots. One does what one does better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
And you're still proving my original point even further. I'm not sure why you sound like you're debating someting.
I admit your prejudice is not totally unjustified, but it would be too bothersome to run down a full list of case examples.
Quote:
I guess none of the people commenting on my posts after mayumi are reading my original posts, because my whole point is how most of the time female characters get shafted in mecha anime combat-wise, regardless of skill. (not just in mecha animes though) Like Soma Peries in Gundam 00; she was a good pilot, but in S2 she didn't get anything done and ended up only serving as a character conflict for Allelujah Haptism.
That's her problem, and I think you still don't see it. Soma was attached to a useless character. We are talking about Allelujah "Human Battery" Haptism. If Soma was attached to Setsuna or Tieria she would have been better off. I think you should make a list of useless male pilots. That should reveal you your bias.

And here's another problem you have never considered, the problem called "love". See, on the screen there is actually nothing more irritant than love. He loves her, she loves him, and you, the spectator, become the third wheel. That's why in a good anime the main characters fall in love only at the end of the series, they finally kiss and all is done. It cuts the boring part. Otherwise you risk having two characters whose only trait becomes the fact they have a fiance. It happened even to Simon and Nia, for example. And then Simon became human battery while Nia was away. That should tell you something.
Quote:
What you're saying is an extension of my "girls in mecha anime get screwed out of getting combat focus" point.
Yeah, but I added that at least in the anime of Kawamori they may get a compensation for that, being important to the plot in other ways, which may not be true for other anime
Quote:
One of the few mecha anime with a female lead pilot ever recognized as a good series was Gunbuster. Most every other female mecha lead title was quickly forgotten.
Gunbuster? Ugh. The real competent pilots were Amano and Jung Freud, but instead they chose as lead Noriko Takaya, who just got MC status and so even if she was the more incompetent she got the most powerful mecha. Jung Freud got screwed even more than Soma Peries. In fact, after Daicon in Gainax anime you are screwed if you are a red haired girl, I don't know why. Anyway, Gunbuster is just as bad as it gets, it's just less noticeable because it had few characters.
Quote:
Again, mecha action-wise she was totally shafted. You can come up with a lot of good reasons for why a lot of female characters were captured and turned into the damsel in distress, but that's still what they were turned into: the damsel in distress.
This is one cliche that I would love to see shattered.
Do it and things will suck. Seriously, this society is not even ready yet for female alpha earners. If the boy can't provide help in a pinch, how is the girl going to fall in love with him? Alcohol? Magic?
Quote:
What would have been wrong with making Sylvia a key point of interest more similar to Apollo, as in a character who helps to win the fight instead of getting captured?
Yeah, she should have become a human battery
Quote:
Then there's the awesomeness that are Soukou no Strain and Jinki, and of course Gunbuster. (though the Jinki anime wasn't nearly as good as the manga, because they had too much material to stuff into 12 episodes) You don't see girls being damsels in distress in those either.
But if the girl is the main character how can she become the damsel in distress? You are confused if you think the gender is more important than being the main character or main antagonist. You seem to know nothing about writing.
Quote:
Which is why we'll most likely never see Mikono going into a steamrolling rampage of devastation against the Abductors to avenge Amata
How can she do it if she doesn't even love him yet?
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Old 2012-02-10, 06:15   Link #1210
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by Shikijin View Post
I admit your prejudice is not totally unjustified, but it would be too bothersome to run down a full list of case examples.
*sigh* I really wish people would start reading posts that they're criticizing and not wasting the original poster's time. I've only stated about a dozen times how I'd love to see female pilots getting more spotlight, so I don't see how I'm prejudiced....
Considering you're the one who said "The fact is that men are stronger than women," and I'm saying females should get as much spotlight as males, you seem to be getting things flipped backwards....

Quote:
That's her problem, and I think you still don't see it. Soma was attached to a useless character. We are talking about Allelujah "Human Battery" Haptism. If Soma was attached to Setsuna or Tieria she would have been better off. I think you should make a list of useless male pilots. That should reveal you your bias.
Wut? So because she's in love with a supporting character, it means she has to have her mech crippled early in a fight so she has to sit out the rest of the final battle?

Quote:
And here's another problem you have never considered, the problem called "love". See, on the screen there is actually nothing more irritant than love. He loves her, she loves him, and you, the spectator, become the third wheel. That's why in a good anime the main characters fall in love only at the end of the series, they finally kiss and all is done. It cuts the boring part. Otherwise you risk having two characters whose only trait becomes the fact they have a fiance. It happened even to Simon and Nia, for example. And then Simon became human battery while Nia was away. That should tell you something.
And now you're saying because two characters love each other before the series' end, then they have to suffer spotlight reduction? First off, I don't see the connection, second, Allelujah was officially in love with Marie early in Gundam 00 S2, and he got spotlight in the final episode and mowed down an Innovedo in an awesome display of skill.

Quote:
Yeah, but I added that at least in the anime of Kawamori they may get a compensation for that, being important to the plot in other ways, which may not be true for other anime
It's certainly not true for many other animes.
Getting knocked back to a supporting role when you used to be a pilot is still getting shafted.

Quote:
Gunbuster? Ugh. The real competent pilots were Amano and Jung Freud, but instead they chose as lead Noriko Takaya, who just got MC status and so even if she was the more incompetent she got the most powerful mecha. Jung Freud got screwed even more than Soma Peries. In fact, after Daicon in Gainax anime you are screwed if you are a red haired girl, I don't know why. Anyway, Gunbuster is just as bad as it gets, it's just less noticeable because it had few characters.
Noriko's performance in the Gunbuster kinda disagrees with her being less competent than Amano and Jung. They were all competent. It's just a little thing called character development; there's a reason for why characters develop across a series instead of being stale.
And Jung didn't get her mech crippled early in the final fight and get turned into a mere spectator in the final battle.

Quote:
Do it and things will suck. Seriously, this society is not even ready yet for female alpha earners. If the boy can't provide help in a pinch, how is the girl going to fall in love with him? Alcohol? Magic?
Huh? You lost me. How does a girl not being a damsel in distress equate to the male lead being useless or powerless?

Quote:
Yeah, she should have become a human battery
Better than being somebody just watching on the sidelines. Or Kawamori could have thought of a different way to keep her character in focus without making her a spectator.

Quote:
But if the girl is the main character how can she become the damsel in distress? You are confused if you think the gender is more important than being the main character or main antagonist. You seem to know nothing about writing.
Why are you so obsessed with a damsel in distress? Why does a girl in a mecha show have to be a damsel in distress? What are you talking about? I am confused. By why everything has to be about a damsel in distress with you.

Quote:
How can she do it if she doesn't even love him yet?
There's something called the next 16-18 episodes.
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Old 2012-02-10, 07:01   Link #1211
LoveMeKags
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Spoiler for I say, it's still quite pointless:


Quote:
But the rule of mecha anime is that mecha is a man's game, so....
Except in Infinite Stratos, the girls were the best.

--

Back on actual topic ,
the next episode will hopefully show me more of Zessica's personal side. I've seen her pilot, I've seen her be kinda bitchy, I've also seen her sexy, but now I want to see her deeper side, the person whom she really is. So hopefully that will come the next episode.
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Old 2012-02-10, 07:34   Link #1212
Lord of Pandemonium
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Location: I'm Dancing & Yelling GANBATTE KAGURA! YOU GO GET YOUR WOMAN BACK!!!!! SHIPPING THEM HARD
LoP is riding on the ship with LoweGear & bakAnki let's hope Andy is able to fill the hole of bliss with himself. Wait till I get the good stuff...you're going to love it
Hey can someone give me that Oreimo image--the one that's become a meem...I want to get a AndyxMix parody of it. Can I have it please? (I don't have time to search. I was at this all night)


Spoiler for Response to Vena, Casshern, Zaresh, and Love Me Kags:
I wish we did have a sub forum. Then we could re watch, the OS togehter and discuss it on Sundays. I love Aquarion! I watch it all the time.In the last month I've already had 3 different marathons--gosh I just love the show.
I'm guessing that's obvious right?

So anyway I gotta tell you what part I loved...

This was so cute<33 it made me chuckle because I really liked Apollo


-and Kagura is the same as he is. He's shocked and generally confused. It's so cute


Call it shipper delusions or whatever you want, but since we're also discussing the OS, I decided to just post my fave Apollo Silvia moments and I remembered a particular scene..a few of them actually. The parallels are the things that convince me Amata IS NOT Apollon's reincarnation. Also I realized that Mikono is more like Silvia than she appears to be. Silvia had more confidence because she could protect herself and she was an element. Mikono is the person she'd be if she didn't have that. Also I find Mikono's insecurities a lot like the ones Sirius had--as well as Celiane and Silvia

I will save that for another discussion...

I truly believe that the only way Amata's love for Mikono will come to fruition is if he's part of Kagura. If he's not--bites for him but he can always have Zessica (that way, everybody's happy or at least I will be)

Apollionus and Apollo are based on Prometheus and Apollo-

Apollo was born in a lake --

In the OS Baron gives Apollo his name after he was swimming in a frozen lake (I'm still trying to figure out how that's even possible)


Seriously can EVOL be anymore obvious? How could you not see it? (That's sun on a lake behind Kagura)


Again I have to go back to this moment again..



It's exactly like this one--even down to the way Kagura reaches for Mikono in his ship. As soon as I saw it, this moment flashed in my mind




How many times do they have to put emphasis on "Your scent" ?

Beginning of Evol and Kagura constantly commenting on the "scent of his woman"


The OS
"You're scent is nostalgic. I will never forget your scent...I know your STINKING SMELL"




He's also Mikono's Wolf just like Apollo was Silvia's Wolf





Incidentally---
Quote:
taken from Wikipedia

Lyceus" later became associated Apollo's mother Leto, who was the patron goddes of Lycia (Λυκία) and who was identified with the wolf (λύκος),[15] earning him the epithets Lycegenes (/laɪˈsɛdʒəniːz/ ly-sej-ə-neez; Λυκηγενής, Lukēgenēs, literally "born of a wolf" or "born of Lycia") and Lycoctonus (/laɪˈkɒktənəs/ ly-kok-tə-nəs; Λυκοκτόνος, Lukoktonos, from λύκος, "wolf", and κτείνειν, "to kill"). As god of the sun, the Romans referred to Apollo as Sol (/ˈsɒl/ sol; literally "sun" in Latin).





Quote:
taken from Wikipedia

In the Iliad, Apollo is the healer under the gods, but he is also the bringer of disease and death with his arrows, similar to the function of the terrible Vedic god of disease Rudra.


How come Amata is none of these things? He has more in common with Silvia and Sirus. I really don't think this is just shipper delusions. If anything these are the reasons I am shipping Kagura and Mikono because they are my beloved pairing from SNA the OS...


Yeah he as wings, to that I say


"Humans and Angels are not distinguished based on wings or not having wings."
..or something like that. I gotta go so I am paraphrasing
I know I know.....when I fan girl...I fan girl

Last edited by Lord of Pandemonium; 2012-02-10 at 07:55. Reason: edited wolf pics
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Old 2012-02-10, 07:43   Link #1213
Lord of Pandemonium
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Okay I gotta go now but before I go let me leave Kagura and Mikono lovers with a gift (If some nice KaguraXMikono Lover or you just don't care about ships but make graphics would be willing to make me a signature--Please contact me. I want a signature of these two)

Preview...




Spoiler for IMAGE RENDER DUMP! Mostly Kagura but there is some Mikono too:
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Old 2012-02-10, 08:16   Link #1214
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I see the series 'Esemble Darkhorse' has taken everyone for ride...
And I know some perverted soul is going to twist what I just said but I'll leave it be...

Not really rooting for anyone at this point, especially since I haven't watched any of the previous series that tie into this, but I do like Andy the best. If only they'd show more of him and Mix interacting, that would be great.

And I'll move out the way once more so the Ship-to-Ship combat can commence. *bows*
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Old 2012-02-10, 08:39   Link #1215
mayumi
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apparently from a magazine. found it on tumblr. so probably more pics floating around somewhere.
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Old 2012-02-10, 08:57   Link #1216
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
I see the series 'Esemble Darkhorse' has taken everyone for ride...
I don't think Kagura is an ensemble darkhorse... he's featured pretty prominently in the promotional artwork and stuff, to say nothing of the actual anime itself. (I expect Jin to be the surprise favorite, he already has a nice number of fangirls. )

Also, not commenting on the whole speculation and shipping thing, just some food for thought: we've seen Amata instinctively know what to do in Aquarion, we've seen him use the legendary (Fudou's words, not mine) Mugen Punch, we've seen Aquarion peeping creepily at shota!Amata (pretty sure that was supposed to be a symbolic representation of something) and the last of what we've seen of his memories was Aquarion taking Alisia (his mother? sister? childhood idol? she's much older than him that's for sure) away from him. I think we can safely say that he's connected to Aquarion on a very deep level which most likely has some relevance as far as reincarnation shenanigans are concerned.

Another interesting person is Alisia, with her connections to Silvia (name, hairdo, played her in the movie) and her obvious importance to the plot. And she's also connected to Amata.
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Old 2012-02-10, 09:20   Link #1217
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by bakAnki View Post
Consider this post a commercial break for the arguments/debate/discussions we're having lately X3


For some reason, these two make me laugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakAnki View Post
Spoiler for Hole couple :3:


Break ends. Proceed~ X3
Lol that was fast- Nothing even happened between them yet
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Old 2012-02-10, 09:28   Link #1218
Vena
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So... am I the only one shipping YunohaxAndy? Really? She's going to turn out to be a real babe, you know.
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Old 2012-02-10, 09:29   Link #1219
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
So... am I the only one shipping YunohaxAndy? Really? She's going to turn out to be a real babe, you know.
Well, I don't ship them, but I completely expect the same thing as you

Maybe they'll all be one big happy family
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Old 2012-02-10, 09:33   Link #1220
OceanBlue
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Thank god someone finally agrees with me ^_^

sorta... because technically isn't the definition of protagonist the chief actor, or main character?

I'd prefer viewpoint character / protagonist or main character / and hero.
I guess it's how you define main character, and if you allow more than one. I would say that Watson is arguably a main character like Holmes, but he isn't the protagonist.

I consider hero as a character archetype, something else entirely, but that's just me.
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