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Old 2012-02-04, 23:06   Link #2101
DonQuigleone
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@SeijiSensei: Turkish is a central asian language (shares a lot in common with Kazakh, Turkmeni etc.), and part of the altaic branch of languages. It's very disputed, but this branch may include Japanese and Korean.

However, the two languages do share some similarities:

1. They are both Subject-Object-Verb, IE I the box open. Most european languages are Subject verb object, IE I open the box.

2. They are both Agglutinative, IE they express meaning by modifying words and adding new particles (English only does this in a limited fashion, EG the plural -es)

3. They both use systems of honorifics to classify your relation to another person

Overall, both languages seem to have similiar grammar, which may account for what you're referring to. This does not necessarily imply the two languages are related, however.
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Old 2012-02-05, 05:49   Link #2102
Shinji01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I have a question for the Japanese natives and speakers here. It comes from a comment made by one of my college classmates about learning Japanese:



What root language could Japanese and Turkish possibly have in common? A later comment mentioned that "funny gaijin" characters in Japanese theatrical performances were portrayed by Turkish actors. Is there any basis to these notions?
I am a native Japanese speaker bu did not know this.
I don't think Turkey is as popular a destination as other countries yet.

however, I do understand how it could be easy for the Japanese to learn their language if the grammatical structure is similar.
Japanese and Koreans seem to have a easy time learning each other's languages too because the structure is similar.
So if Turkish is along the same line, then, sure, it must be so.

I do notice that the Turkish in japan seem to be better in Japanese than the English speakers...
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Old 2012-02-05, 12:28   Link #2103
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I have a question for the Japanese natives and speakers here. It comes from a comment made by one of my college classmates about learning Japanese:



What root language could Japanese and Turkish possibly have in common? A later comment mentioned that "funny gaijin" characters in Japanese theatrical performances were portrayed by Turkish actors. Is there any basis to these notions?
In line with other posts... I thnk its a coincidental similarity in structure - the ancestor root language of commonality is so far back in time as to be irrelevant (really, there are very few grammar structural choices to work with so pure chance similarity is in gear). Apparently there are also enough connections to Finnish that people scratch their head over it as well. Here's an interesting summary discussing the linguistic studies of Japanese and other languages:
http://linguistics.byu.edu/classes/l...s/japanese.htm

Japanese, being a very isolated language over a long time period, probably shot off from ancient Korean. After that, it was a classic "Galapagos Island" situation punctuated by the regional mountains and rivers that slice up Japan.

I've never heard of Turks being used in Japanese entertainment that way either ...
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Old 2012-02-05, 17:29   Link #2104
andyjay729
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Here's some more information on the language classification debate. The editors of this Wiki article seem especially supportive of Goguryeo, an extinct language of Korea. Incidentally, I've heard the name "Korea" actually derives from Japan's use of the name "Koryo", which in turn derives from the Goguryeo state. (Koreans call their country "Hanguk".)

The Korean hypothesis seems most likely to me, especially just by looking at a map. Jared Diamond also went into some detail about this in his Guns, Germs and Steel.

This may seem crazy, but a friend of my parents once went to see the Mayan ruins in Mexico (well, I don't know about just once; he travels a lot). He actually said that some Japanese tourists there said they could understand the Mayan language at times! There might be some considerable hyperbole going on, but then the Mayans and other Native Americans also originated in northeast Asia. In any case, many NA languages also use the subject-object-verb format, as well as much agglutination. In any case, here's a discussion postulating a link between the Altaic languages mentioned by Vexx and the Eskimo-Aleut languages.
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Old 2012-02-05, 17:39   Link #2105
Terrestrial Dream
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyjay729 View Post
Here's some more information on the language classification debate. The editors of this Wiki article seem especially supportive of Goguryeo, an extinct language of Korea. Incidentally, I've heard the name "Korea" actually derives from Japan's use of the name "Koryo", which in turn derives from the Goguryeo state. (Koreans call their country "Hanguk".)
Koryo or Goryeo is actually is one of the Korean dynasty before, Chosun and after Silla. The name Korea most likely came from Marco Polo since during the period of his visit Korea was Goryeo.
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Old 2012-02-05, 17:39   Link #2106
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by andyjay729 View Post
Incidentally, I've heard the name "Korea" actually derives from Japan's use of the name "Koryo", which in turn derives from the Goguryeo state. (Koreans call their country "Hanguk".)
Wrong. It came from the Arab traders recording Goryeo in their records. Believe it or not, Goryeo was easternmost major port in the Arabic trade system, and there are plenty of records of large Arab-towns being established in Korea before the Mongol invasions.
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Old 2012-02-05, 19:55   Link #2107
MakubeX2
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Wrong. It came from the Arab traders recording Goryeo in their records. Believe it or not, Goryeo was easternmost major port in the Arabic trade system, and there are plenty of records of large Arab-towns being established in Korea before the Mongol invasions.
Not surprising, the Arabs manage to get to China and they were employed in the Chinese court administration. They were also instrumental in the establishment of the Yuan Dynasty. How else did you think that an illterate Barbarian Horde managed to establish a ruling caste ?
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Old 2012-02-09, 09:38   Link #2108
Vexx
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Via Cracked... but this is probably the most amazing samurai skills with a katana I've come across.

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Old 2012-02-09, 16:51   Link #2109
Hooves
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Indeed, how well the katana is used on that video is amazing. Katana slicing has become a sport
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Old 2012-02-10, 02:25   Link #2110
aohige
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Via Cracked... but this is probably the most amazing samurai skills with a katana I've come across.

Clearly he chose the wrong career for his life.
Can you imagine the batting average this fella could crank out in the major league!?
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Old 2012-02-10, 04:03   Link #2111
tenkenX6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Via Cracked... but this is probably the most amazing samurai skills with a katana I've come across.

That was frickin' amazing! I've never seen such awesome swordsmanship. I think it's safe to say that he possesses some sort of superhuman ability, IMHO.

Anyway, thanks for uploading the video! I really enjoyed it.
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Old 2012-02-10, 04:25   Link #2112
LeoXiao
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That samurai dude is a friggin' badass.
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Old 2012-02-10, 20:23   Link #2113
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
In line with other posts... I thnk its a coincidental similarity in structure - the ancestor root language of commonality is so far back in time as to be irrelevant (really, there are very few grammar structural choices to work with so pure chance similarity is in gear). Apparently there are also enough connections to Finnish that people scratch their head over it as well. Here's an interesting summary discussing the linguistic studies of Japanese and other languages:
http://linguistics.byu.edu/classes/l...s/japanese.htm

Japanese, being a very isolated language over a long time period, probably shot off from ancient Korean. After that, it was a classic "Galapagos Island" situation punctuated by the regional mountains and rivers that slice up Japan.

I've never heard of Turks being used in Japanese entertainment that way either ...
The indigenous Ainu speak a language isolate as well.
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Old 2012-02-11, 01:02   Link #2114
Guernsey
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Speaking of Ainu, are they really the indigneous Japanese people? What is so special about them?
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Old 2012-02-11, 01:29   Link #2115
Terrestrial Dream
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Speaking of Ainu, are they really the indigneous Japanese people? What is so special about them?
Well they are the native people in Hokkaido. Hokkaido was not originally Japanese and was annexed during the Meiji era. The Ainu does have their own language and culture, but from what I understand it is dying. Genetic wise I believe the closet to the Ainu is the Tibetan.
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Old 2012-02-11, 03:31   Link #2116
Shinji01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Well they are the native people in Hokkaido. Hokkaido was not originally Japanese and was annexed during the Meiji era. The Ainu does have their own language and culture, but from what I understand it is dying. Genetic wise I believe the closet to the Ainu is the Tibetan.
I had a teacher in high school that was obsessed about the Ainu.
Its a pity I didnt pay attention in class though.

As mentioned, they are more Tibetan/Russian as opposed to the Okinawan being more South East Asian. (Okinawan language/ dialect is totally different to standard Japanese and use words like Chanpurū which is very close to the Malay or Indonesian word campur.)

However, it is difficult to say who are the indigenous people because HOkkaido has the Ainu, Honshu Islands are mostly Yamato who are said to be of Korean roots, and the Okinawan who are South East Asian/ Spanish roots.

Ainu and Okinawan tend to be considered indigenous because they are the minority.

Ainu - the guy on the left is Ainu, the left is Russian(Tolstoy)


Okinawan (comedian and golfer Miyazato Ai)



Yamato Minzoku (People from the mainland, most famous example is the empirical family)


IMO, the photos above really remind us that Japan is actually just another archipelago of Islands who all have different roots and cultures.
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Old 2012-02-11, 09:48   Link #2117
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Well they are the native people in Hokkaido. Hokkaido was not originally Japanese and was annexed during the Meiji era. The Ainu does have their own language and culture, but from what I understand it is dying. Genetic wise I believe the closet to the Ainu is the Tibetan.

Correction, native to Hokkaido and historically northern Honshu
. They also lived in parts of Siberia, including the Sakhalin peninsula and Kuril Islands. They were gradually pushed back by more technologically advanced Japanese invading from the south.


@Shinji01: I wouldn't say the Ainu have any relation to the Russians. Russians were only present in Siberia in the last ~300 years. Most Russians do not look that much like Leo Tolstoy.

Genetic studies indicate the Ainu are most related to other siberian peoples (including the Tibetans).
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Old 2012-02-11, 10:00   Link #2118
judasmartel
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Say, I don't know if it has been posted yet, but I heard it is possible in Japan for the guy to bear the girl's surname upon marriage, though I'm not sure of the conditions required for this to happen.

All I know is that the guy must keep the girl's name if:

1. The girl's family is richer and/or more influential than the guy's, or
2. The girl has no male siblings to bear her family's name.

Could somebody please clarify this?
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Old 2012-02-11, 11:23   Link #2119
DonQuigleone
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This does occur. Primarily if the man marries into a wealthy or prestigious family that has no sons of their own. They may wish to carry on their family legacy, but know they cannot do so with a daughter.

I believe there is a similiar chinese practice.
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Old 2012-02-11, 12:33   Link #2120
ChainLegacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji01 View Post
I had a teacher in high school that was obsessed about the Ainu.
Its a pity I didnt pay attention in class though.

As mentioned, they are more Tibetan/Russian as opposed to the Okinawan being more South East Asian. (Okinawan language/ dialect is totally different to standard Japanese and use words like Chanpurū which is very close to the Malay or Indonesian word campur.)

However, it is difficult to say who are the indigenous people because HOkkaido has the Ainu, Honshu Islands are mostly Yamato who are said to be of Korean roots, and the Okinawan who are South East Asian/ Spanish roots.

Ainu and Okinawan tend to be considered indigenous because they are the minority.

Ainu - the guy on the left is Ainu, the left is Russian(Tolstoy)

The reason I use the term indigenous is that the Ainu represent an earlier migration out of Africa into eastern Asia. While they look more caucasian, almost Russian in some of those early photos, like you mentioned they are closely related to isolated Tibetan tribes and even have interestingly similar markers to Andaman islanders. The Andaman islands are one of the few places untouched by civilization today, and the people living there are descendents of one of the earliest waves out of Africa. The genetic marker similarities present the interesting case that the Ainu, Tibetan, and Andaman islanders may all be descended from these original migrants who took different paths out of Africa. Their skin and hair is phenotypic and could have evolved via convergent evolution similarly to Russian populations without being closely related.

Further, the paleolithic inhabitants of Japan were something more like the Ainu, and gradually were assimilated (meaning, they still do contribute to modern Japanese genetic heritage) by the later waves of migrants out of the continent during the Yayoi period. Some of these Jomon-era hunter gatherers lived in the far north, however, and preserved their culture without being assimilated, perhaps due to the difficulty in maintaining the agricultural society the Yayoi had imported in the colder climate. These people became the Ainu.
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